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Details and update on the Ice Anomaly design

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Qyl Anni'un
From Our Cold Dead Hands
ORPHANS OF EVE
#161 - 2013-05-10 21:14:10 UTC
Makari Aeron wrote:
It respawns 4 hours after you mine them out completely.


Yes, but my question was when does it respawn when NOT mined or NOT mined completely.....
Qyl Anni'un
From Our Cold Dead Hands
ORPHANS OF EVE
#162 - 2013-05-10 21:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Qyl Anni'un
Danni stark wrote:
Qyl Anni'un wrote:
Maybe I've completely missed reading this somewhere else that it was officially posted, but are the ice sites going to respawn completely at each downtime or if, say, a single ice roid is left, does the ice spawn remain that way for four days? Or does it simply respawn every four hours from downtime no matter whether someone's mined it or not?


if it works the way null sec grav sites currently work, then it only respawns after it's completely emptied, or after 4 days. totally independant of downtime.



That would go contrary to CCP's intent then. They made the 4-hour respawn so that everyone has a chance to mine ice no matter their timezone, but if someone leaves one roid with one ice block in it, and if it doesn't respawn in 4 hours, then the person logging on later is screwed? Logic (based on CCP's reason for making the 4-hour respawn in the first place) would say it has to respawn every 4 hours no how much it's been (or not been) mined.
Kalenn Istarion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2013-05-10 22:50:06 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Lexar Mundi wrote:
Abyss Wyrm wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Soft Insanity wrote:
Fozzie, can we get ice miners on the Venture Pwwwwease?


I've wanted that for a while, but to do it right we'd need to allow faster cycling ice miners that create smaller blocks. And I have no idea how we would go about implementing that.

Such ice miners definitely needed for lowsec. Otherwise no one gonna mine ice there - too risky.

tbh making the venture not only a frig, but with built in warp stabs was a big mistake. I still don't know what they were thinking.

Look at it this way. Low sec ice will give the Procurer a job. No one uses it atm.

Nope,
Procurer is still useless in low sec. What good does more tank do you if CONCORD is not on the way to save you?

...

If it had its +2 warp strength back that would help a lot, but as it is, the procurer and skiff are not any more useful in low sec than they are in high sec.


That or you would have to suck it up and sacrifice yield or tank to fit a warp stab instead of a tank module. Heaven forfend!

Try Harder.
Dultas
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#164 - 2013-05-11 01:39:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Dultas
Removing Dark Glitter from low sec is a terrible idea, from experience it's the only thing that is currently mined in low sec with any regularity. Removing that source of Stront and LO is going to have a major hit on the economy. If the issue with ores before was there there wasn't enough low ends in null to make production viable because they'd have to ship so much in, now you have the major sources of ozone and stront confined to null so it will have to be shipped out of null to have any change for low sec capitals and high / low towers to meet their demands.
Danni stark
#165 - 2013-05-11 09:04:32 UTC
Qyl Anni'un wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
Qyl Anni'un wrote:
Maybe I've completely missed reading this somewhere else that it was officially posted, but are the ice sites going to respawn completely at each downtime or if, say, a single ice roid is left, does the ice spawn remain that way for four days? Or does it simply respawn every four hours from downtime no matter whether someone's mined it or not?


if it works the way null sec grav sites currently work, then it only respawns after it's completely emptied, or after 4 days. totally independant of downtime.



That would go contrary to CCP's intent then. They made the 4-hour respawn so that everyone has a chance to mine ice no matter their timezone, but if someone leaves one roid with one ice block in it, and if it doesn't respawn in 4 hours, then the person logging on later is screwed? Logic (based on CCP's reason for making the 4-hour respawn in the first place) would say it has to respawn every 4 hours no how much it's been (or not been) mined.


no it isn't, then.

because if there's ice in it, people can mine it. if there's no ice, then it's ticking down a 4hr respawn timer.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Arckaon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2013-05-11 11:32:50 UTC
i have one question about anomalies, in sisi i put a megathron in it for 30 min and no NPC spawn, are they clean about npc for mine or is it possible to have a spawn like belt ? or special spawn like anomalies ?

about the ice in good 0.0 :

3500 units of improved racial ice
400 units of Glare Crust
1000 units of Dark Glitter
300 units of Gelidus
250 units of Krystallos

so 5450 ice block

LO : 1615000
HW : 1268750
isotope : 1225000

this mine lack of isotope for 0.0 so i think we will import isotope and export LO
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#167 - 2013-05-11 15:54:32 UTC
Qyl Anni'un wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
Qyl Anni'un wrote:
Maybe I've completely missed reading this somewhere else that it was officially posted, but are the ice sites going to respawn completely at each downtime or if, say, a single ice roid is left, does the ice spawn remain that way for four days? Or does it simply respawn every four hours from downtime no matter whether someone's mined it or not?


if it works the way null sec grav sites currently work, then it only respawns after it's completely emptied, or after 4 days. totally independant of downtime.



That would go contrary to CCP's intent then. They made the 4-hour respawn so that everyone has a chance to mine ice no matter their timezone, but if someone leaves one roid with one ice block in it, and if it doesn't respawn in 4 hours, then the person logging on later is screwed? Logic (based on CCP's reason for making the 4-hour respawn in the first place) would say it has to respawn every 4 hours no how much it's been (or not been) mined.

why is someone going to leave that ice block in there
Danni stark
#168 - 2013-05-11 16:02:02 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
why is someone going to leave that ice block in there


because somehow between a 100mn stabber and a few catalysts even a skiff won't be able to get that last ice asteroid.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Axe Coldon
#169 - 2013-05-11 17:39:02 UTC
If the goal of the changes is to get NULL to mine more of its own ice products...then maybe the ice belts for null should be substantially larger with a shorter respawn.

About ice compression. In a Mack with Rorq bonuses I mine roughly 80 blocks an hour. 5 miners is 400. Rorqs compress roughly 400 an hour. so when you have an op with 10 miners (not large) and need to compress..you get way behind very quickly. It would really be nice if they did something about this.

And about that ice is bigger refined.

If they are bound and determined to stick to smaller belts..and they pop fast. Then the guys that really need ice are going to have to have multiple systems to mine. but oh wait..we are still compressing for the next 2 hours. (or more).

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out if CCP keeps it as planned.

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Giovannona Coscialunga
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#170 - 2013-05-11 17:44:53 UTC
The exact mechanic of the belt respawning bother me too, especially in lowsec/nullsec where one obviously mines the best ice first.
I know that probably ice price will go up to a point where every kind of ice is somewhat good to mine anyway, but i still fear that it will go as in nullsec, where in gravi sites no one is bothered to mine low end ore to deplete it and just waits for the respawn after X days or just go to another gravi site.
So again, what will happen if the ice belt is left "half" mined?
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#171 - 2013-05-11 17:46:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Xado
I don't understand why they are keeping ice compression the way they are. It isn't going to lead to people selling their ice in null sec (because no one is buying). It is just going to cause people to AFK compress for longer periods. It's not like it is hard to AFK compress, it's just annoying and a bit out of character.

Anyway, just my two cents. I'm liking what I'm seeing for the expansion, but I really wish they would reconsider their stance on the ice compression thing.
Hustomte
Veritex Industrial Inc.
#172 - 2013-05-11 18:11:27 UTC
Arckaon wrote:
i have one question about anomalies, in sisi i put a megathron in it for 30 min and no NPC spawn, are they clean about npc for mine or is it possible to have a spawn like belt ? or special spawn like anomalies ?


They get rats just like normal asteroid belts, I have confirmed this with my enyo on Sisi. Big smile

...Signature...
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2013-05-12 02:42:59 UTC
would be nice to get a CCP response to some of the questions in this thread

~R~
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#174 - 2013-05-12 07:14:14 UTC
Reppyk wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Lowsec:
3000 units of standard racial ice
400 units of Glare Crust
Ahahaha it can't be true.
Lowsec ice belts have (atm) the improved racial ice AND some dark glitter, which is the most valuable ice in the game.
Still, nobody is mining it.
Nice lowsec nerf !

I'm fine with the numbers (THE ICE WARS yay), but seriously, the lowsec ice should stay the improved one.


Yeah agree with you but it still won't bring miners to low. :D

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2013-05-12 13:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
Jason Xado wrote:
I don't understand why they are keeping ice compression the way they are. It isn't going to lead to people selling their ice in null sec (because no one is buying). It is just going to cause people to AFK compress for longer periods. It's not like it is hard to AFK compress, it's just annoying and a bit out of character.

Anyway, just my two cents. I'm liking what I'm seeing for the expansion, but I really wish they would reconsider their stance on the ice compression thing.


I think I'm wrong here, but here's some math.

5450 units of ice in the new low-truesec 0.0 anom
4 production lines per rorq. (unsure on this one, it's hard as hell to find any documentation on this at all)
48s to compress a block of ice.


That's 18hrs to compress an ice anom that would come out to about 1.7m m^3 refined anyways. Almost 830k m^3 if you don't count the Heavy water or stront since they're both not going to sell in 0.0, and they're not worth the cost/effort of shipping to jita.


18 hours to turn 5.45m m^3 worth of ice into 545k m^3 when it would otherwise be 830k m^3 worth of usable refined material is beyond awful.


e: I do realize that there is a small profit to be made in shipping heavy water from your local 0.0 post-office to Jita. Just putting that out there before someone points it out.
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#176 - 2013-05-12 14:16:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Xado
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Jason Xado wrote:
I don't understand why they are keeping ice compression the way they are. It isn't going to lead to people selling their ice in null sec (because no one is buying). It is just going to cause people to AFK compress for longer periods. It's not like it is hard to AFK compress, it's just annoying and a bit out of character.

Anyway, just my two cents. I'm liking what I'm seeing for the expansion, but I really wish they would reconsider their stance on the ice compression thing.


I think I'm wrong here, but here's some math.

5450 units of ice in the new low-truesec 0.0 anom
4 production lines per rorq. (unsure on this one, it's hard as hell to find any documentation on this at all)
48s to compress a block of ice.


That's 18hrs to compress an ice anom that would come out to about 1.7m m^3 refined anyways. Almost 830k m^3 if you don't count the Heavy water or stront since they're both not going to sell in 0.0, and they're not worth the cost/effort of shipping to jita.


18 hours to turn 5.45m m^3 worth of ice into 545k m^3 when it would otherwise be 830k m^3 worth of usable refined material is beyond awful.


e: I do realize that there is a small profit to be made in shipping heavy water from your local 0.0 post-office to Jita. Just putting that out there before someone points it out.


Currently I exclusively mine and compress Dark Glitter. Obviously that is going to change. I haven't really thought about the compression ratios of other ices. I need to do some math :-)
Gen Jonson
EVE Pilots for the Ethical Treatment of Asteroids
#177 - 2013-05-13 01:21:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Gen Jonson
Do you want to mine ice and always find out someone mined your ice anom before you can even log in?
Would you like those other pesky carebears moved out of YOUR ice anomaly? Blink

Contact EVE Pilots for the Ethical Treatment of Asteroids for help!

To get an ice anom all to yourself follow these steps:
1. Count how many non NPC corp/alliances are in the belt.
2. Mail me (Gen Jonson) an EVE Mail with the system and every corp or alliance name that is in your belt.
3. Send the isk amount we discuss for the war decs.

Presto! You and your corp mates have a belt all to yourselves!
Loney
CyberDyne R-D
Artificial Intellagence
#178 - 2013-05-13 07:57:52 UTC
Jason Xado wrote:
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Jason Xado wrote:
I don't understand why they are keeping ice compression the way they are. It isn't going to lead to people selling their ice in null sec (because no one is buying). It is just going to cause people to AFK compress for longer periods. It's not like it is hard to AFK compress, it's just annoying and a bit out of character.

Anyway, just my two cents. I'm liking what I'm seeing for the expansion, but I really wish they would reconsider their stance on the ice compression thing.


I think I'm wrong here, but here's some math.

5450 units of ice in the new low-truesec 0.0 anom
4 production lines per rorq. (unsure on this one, it's hard as hell to find any documentation on this at all)
48s to compress a block of ice.


That's 18hrs to compress an ice anom that would come out to about 1.7m m^3 refined anyways. Almost 830k m^3 if you don't count the Heavy water or stront since they're both not going to sell in 0.0, and they're not worth the cost/effort of shipping to jita.


18 hours to turn 5.45m m^3 worth of ice into 545k m^3 when it would otherwise be 830k m^3 worth of usable refined material is beyond awful.


e: I do realize that there is a small profit to be made in shipping heavy water from your local 0.0 post-office to Jita. Just putting that out there before someone points it out.


Currently I exclusively mine and compress Dark Glitter. Obviously that is going to change. I haven't really thought about the compression ratios of other ices. I need to do some math :-)


This is a good topic on ICE COMPRESSION BUFF: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=229506&find=unread

If you want Ice Compression changes check it out!

+ Monthly Meetup - DC / VA / MD Area - Pass The Word +

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=508844
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#179 - 2013-05-13 15:05:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jita Bloodtear
94% of all ice is mined in empire right now. Leaving 6% for low/nullsec. CCP wants to lower the ice mined in empire to about 80% and have nullsec mine the rest. If we're cutting back highsec isotope supply by a global 14%, then nullsec needs to increase in miner count to cover that shortfall. That means nullsec must rise from 6% up to 20% of all the ice miners in the game. A 233% increase in nullsec miners.

But the estimates of the highsec ice belts being completely mined out 5x a day is unrealistic due to timezone constraints of player activities. The actual mined out amount will probably be closer to 3x/day, bringing highsec ice block production down from the "perfect supply of 80%" down to 48%. In order for nullsec to effectively compensate for this, they'll have to contain 52% of the ice miners in the game. Up from 6%. That means nullsec would need a 766% increase in the number of miners, just to match the supply of isotopes that's needed. This is unrealistic.

This is what I envision the timezone ice mining coverage to be like in highsec after the expansion. Highsec is currently able to produce isotopes to supply the whole galaxy because it's timezone invariant. During your primetime you can log on and do ice mining without restriction. After the expansion there will be an artificial restriction in the name of "timezone balance". But this will only have the effect of punishing the major timezones. It may have the illusion of being fair, but it will vastly hurt the majority of the players.
digi
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#180 - 2013-05-13 18:35:05 UTC
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
It may have the illusion of being fair, but it will vastly hurt the majority of the players.


Change is scary, isn't it?