Player Features and Ideas Discussion

im concerned that it will not drive conflict, but more a first come first serve system.

it would be a lot harder to muscle in on an already claimed belt than to defend it. Anyone wishing to contest ownership would have to acquire a suspect flag and wait to be shot at by just about anyone, the ppl attacking him may not even be the miners, so he may never get to contest the belts ownership at all.

and if u try to bring a fleet to muscle another fleet out and all go suspect, the defenders are still able to engage the attackers one by one under the suspect mechanics.

lets hope these permits are expensive

ummm...POS bashing on belts?

or mini decs against corps over mining belts only without a 24 hour waiting period (ha ha yes!)

I like this idea as well. My only concern is that people looking for easy kills will attack the structure for the sake of shooting people instead of control over the resource.

that was actually the best part of it. u shouldnt have the rights to something without having to defend it and urselves.

having rights to a belt should make u vulnerable to attack. the worst possible outcome (imho) of this proposal is invulnerable miners mining invulnerable belts. because that IS a first come first serve system and not conflict at all.

The idea is nice but I see a nasty way to exploit it.

What prevents sufficiently large corp/alliance from scanning and claiming all those sites out there (you said they are to be scarce, so it should be doable) and then... doing nothing? Or just waiting in cloaky Proteuses, like one poster mentioned?

Interesting proposal. I can see the problem of griefer corps/alliances snapping up all of the charters, leading to turmoil in the markets. The idea of limiting the number of charters per corp is good, and if the corp needed a membership of at least ?? then it would stop griefers firing up small corps all over the place. Any corp whose membership drops below ?? would have ? days to get the membership back up or the charter would be revoked. Charters would need to be unavailable to corps with any trial account toons; the obsessives WOULD create a load of toons for just this purpose.



Something like a T2 orca, perhaps? Deployable with a refinery onboard that works only in deployed mode. Obviously a vastly increased ore bay over the T1 variant and a bay for the resulting minerals. Other attributes to be discussed. Making a T2 orca would be suitably expensive; the T1 costs enough. Add the T2 bpc AND the upgrade components and you have your expensive mining platform.

This is exactly why this is a terrible idea... and for the same reasons there will never be player owned pocos in hi-sec this should never be implemented.

tl;dr

OP wants mechanic to lock rogue miners out of his local belts. Doesn't want others to be able to interfere with his ownership of said belts.

I totally agree with you about Bots.

But I was wondering... This kind of mining sites could be built instead of found. This would add a new layer to the game. Keep in mind that the next expansion will be "build your empire" Themed. This would be something like a private asteroid farm.

Maybe if you could build near your POS an acceleration gate that would lead to an private gravimetric site, that would slowly replenish itself. And this acceleration gate would need the charts to work.

That's exactly his point OP wants PVP for the sake of claiming a resource, not drive-by PVP for the sake of padding a killboard. But he wants to make it available to another set of players without the overheads of 0.0.

Re: stopping people claiming belts and not using them.
Simple: build in a clause that a certain amount needs to be mined per time period or the charter reverts to NPC corp and can be repurchased.

Amount should be low enough that a small number of medium skilled players can achieve it.
Amount should be high enough that it injects sufficient minerals into the market to ensure market stability.
Time period should be long enough that you don't need to be constantly active and can stop-and-start provided that when you are active you are very active (ie 4-6 hours).

Re: stealing.
Just make anybody claim jumping suspect it's easiest.

Note by claim jumping I mean mining in a belt without any rights to mine in that belt; not trying to acquire the rights from the rights-holders. (See below).

Re: forcefully acquiring a claim.
I don't like Pew-Pew mechanics for this. This mechanic is about mining and driving conflict through mining. If you want to pew-pew a corp/alliance who is in your space claiming your belts, Wardec them or get Mercs to wardec them. This will give you a period where they're vulnerable. (I get that Wardec's are delayed, they should be seen as a longer term solution).

When it's a disagreement over just one belt (ie short duration, not worth a Wardec), my preferred solution is to make it a mining competition.
Ie.
1. new corp (Corp A) spots a belt they want, but it's already been claimed (Corp B).
2. They pay the NPC corp in question a fee (similar to but higher than the original fee for the charter) and get the ability to mine in the belt for a window.
3. During this window the value of ore mined by Corp A and Corp B (or by people renting rights through Corp B) is tracked, at the end of the window whoever has mined the most retains/acquires the claim.

This means there is a benefit to legitimately claiming a belt (it's cheaper than trying to claim-jump); but that benefit is not absolute and must be exercised (or you lose it).

It also means that miners can do what they do best: mine. We're not forcing them to Pew-Pew. Either way it's PVP - just the mechanics are different.

Also: there are sufficient tools in Eve already to disrupt mining ops. (Suicide ganks, threats of suicide ganks, bumping etc.)

Re: claim fees.
My thinking is that it's most logical to make the fee a % of the total value of the belt. This means that what your risking in claiming a belt scales to the potential benefit if you can mine it all.

You also sell partial stakes for players/corps who don't have the time to mine out the belt completely.

Ie, somebody buys the exclusive rights to mine 25% of the total value of a belt. Whilst the right is active only they can mine the belt, but the right expires once they've mined 25% of the value of the belt and become available to purchase.
A second corp comes along and purchases the exclusive rights to 100% of the value of the belt. Their cost is based on the value of the belt at that time ie of 75% of the original value of the belt.

Re: scarcity
The way to make scarcity work for this is to make Ore's scarce in time. (Ie at any one time in the game there is a finite amount of ore) but infinite in depth.

Ie. make ores a limitless well, with a narrow opening. The fight then becomes about controlling the opening; but shouldn't change over all supply.

As prices increase due to conflict, mining increases in value, more players mine to make isk, belts are cycled quicker*, conflict increases, supply remains in pace with demand.

* This assumes that these belts work like 0.0 mining anoms: ie they respawn immediately / quickly once they've been mined out.

You're missing my point.

It's hi-sec... the resources available should never be claimable by an entity. This is why pocos are NPC owned, moon minerals cannot be mined, ore, ice belts & station slots are a first come first served basis.

If this idea went through all that would happen is you'd claim your belts and then just use a tornado character in system to warp around and gank anyone else mining them without getting concorded.