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Feedback Request: Radial Menu

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Theran Emoner
Electronic Scientific Recreational
#61 - 2013-05-09 23:08:32 UTC
Lyta Jhonson wrote:
I hope the option to reassign radial menu to middle mouse button is missing because of bug and wasn't removed intentionally because when activated with left mouse button it gives too much accident menu activations for me. And if with old menu accident activations (if not reassigned) could be just annoying, new menu not only pops up but issues random command even if mouse cursor isn't within menu due to new design. Don't want to sound exaggerating but it really turns gaming experience into nightmare (as a person interested is a graphics programming I spent good ten minutes examining new distortion effect on the gates and constant menu popups instead of camera rotations almost drove me mad).

Option to adjust menu activation delay could somehow diminish the issue but ability to remap menu to another mouse button (like we can now) or entirely disable it would be much better.


This is exactly how i feel about it.

The option to switch it off or change activation button would alleviate a lot of potential frustration. That or make the menus work like the old ones, in the sense that selection of an item is only performed when the mouse cursor actually is above that item, not when the item and the mouse cursor is in the same direction from the center of the menu. What it is now is a weird combination, since it looks like the old one, but functions more like the voice commands in, for example, Battlefield 3, where selection is made by direction, not position.
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#62 - 2013-05-09 23:25:31 UTC
after ratting for some clone tags for a while I've noticed that the usual flow of actions after landing in a belt is approach > target
which requires me to open it twice
also in pvp you often want to spam buttons like warp which also requires you to open the menu twice
it would be very nice if right click would allow you to select something without closing the menu

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Jane Schereau
#63 - 2013-05-10 01:14:44 UTC
I too had lag with the radial menus. Very unpleasant
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#64 - 2013-05-10 02:20:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Shade Millith
Alright. Rant time.



Why on earth are you randomly changing the locations of the icons? Do you have a reason? Or is it just to have something new?

For the last decade the Lock icon has been top left. For the last decade Orbit has been top right. Warp is top. Look At is down. Keep at Range is right. I don't even need to look in-game to remember those.

So why did you just up and change that? It doesn't serve a purpose other than to confuse and make it less useful to older players who have muscle memory. The only thing that's NOT going to be confusing is Show Info. It's like changing 'Warp to' in the right click menu to the fourth option.

Please, please, please don't just change things for the sake of changing it! People get used to where the menu icons are, and it becomes ingrained. After so long, this is going to take months of nightmarish game-play to get used to. For what? This is just going to result in people losing ships because they can't find the icon they need in time.

If you want to do this, at least give us the option to customize it like the NeoCom.




Second problem. Releasing the mouse button outside of the Radial Menu doesn't just dismiss the menu. Now, the only way to dismiss the menu is to have it in the small designated area in the middle. That's going to be annoying as all hell.

The mouse lag is the least of it's problems.



TL:DR So far, the new radial menu is almost a complete bust for me. Confusing icon locations, mouselag, and hard to dismiss without making a selection. The only upside to it is the nice distance selection ability for Warp To, Orbit and Keep at Range.

I cannot stress this enough! Let us CUSTOMIZE the icons loctation like the NeoCom!
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-05-10 03:01:39 UTC
Theran Emoner wrote:
Lyta Jhonson wrote:
I hope the option to reassign radial menu to middle mouse button is missing because of bug and wasn't removed intentionally because when activated with left mouse button it gives too much accident menu activations for me. And if with old menu accident activations (if not reassigned) could be just annoying, new menu not only pops up but issues random command even if mouse cursor isn't within menu due to new design. Don't want to sound exaggerating but it really turns gaming experience into nightmare (as a person interested is a graphics programming I spent good ten minutes examining new distortion effect on the gates and constant menu popups instead of camera rotations almost drove me mad).

Option to adjust menu activation delay could somehow diminish the issue but ability to remap menu to another mouse button (like we can now) or entirely disable it would be much better.


This is exactly how i feel about it.


Same. This is important.
Rammix
TheMurk
#66 - 2013-05-10 04:26:28 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:

The last option is the "extra" option. There we put options that don't quiet belong to main menu, but are handy to have easy access to. We are very selective when putting stuff there, and want to keep the list of options there short. In the case of the extra option layer, the position of the options is not as fixed, as the list of options is not always the same.

Please let us fully customize buttons' positions and let us add custom buttons to the second layer. I think EVE needs to be much-much more customizable in-game. And also there should be ways to export absolutely any settings.

And about left-clicking: many of us have mice with more than 2-3 buttons, for example my mouse has 6. Why force us to use left-click for radial menu when it can be easily done with some other button - in a much more comfortable way.

Also, when you use 'instant action menu' hotkey it keeps working even after you release it. I.e. keeps instantly popping radial menu on every click. Pressing 'Tab' doesn't help.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-05-10 04:28:52 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
after ratting for some clone tags for a while I've noticed that the usual flow of actions after landing in a belt is approach > target
which requires me to open it twice
also in pvp you often want to spam buttons like warp which also requires you to open the menu twice
it would be very nice if right click would allow you to select something without closing the menu

Yes, the radial menu is really nice (apart from the current lag), but we need more options with it. I.e making it sticky so it stays open after the first click. Also so people can assign it to different mouse buttons. Make it so people can adjust the delay from instant to a couple of seconds. That way people can customise it to how they want to use it. All in all though I really like it.
Rammix
TheMurk
#68 - 2013-05-10 04:48:10 UTC
Rammix wrote:
And about left-clicking: many of us have mice with more than 2-3 buttons, for example my mouse has 6. Why force us to use left-click for radial menu when it can be easily done with some other button - in a much more comfortable way.

Have to quote myself. Big smile

BTW, assigning radial menu to another button instead of left m.b. lets use this menu for just ANYTHING, including actions with modules.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-05-10 05:17:53 UTC
Problem with scaning radial menu is mainly this:

IT BEHAVE DIFFRENTLY THEN YOUR REGULAR RADIAL MENU

guys, like... GUYS...

You desing new feature (radial menu) and then another teams comes in and say "owh great, so now radial is trendy, lets do that in our feature, but lets not do that the same as You did, noooo... lets confuse players and design our own way of behavior"

thats how the process behind development of scanner radial menu might look like

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#70 - 2013-05-10 07:43:19 UTC
when I hit the scanner button, I want the scanner to open, when I hit that button again I want it to close.

what I do not need is to be presented with options that I can select directly from the scanner. ok you have added that scan grid thing, move it to the tab at the top of the scanner tab's.

just because you think something is cool, it does not mean that its functional

OMG when can i get a pic here
AngelFood
#71 - 2013-05-10 07:54:17 UTC
Terrible.
AK Wilson
Material School
#72 - 2013-05-10 08:09:17 UTC
I’m undoubtedly doing something stupid but I can’t find radial menus.

I’ve left and right clicked on stuff in space, both on and off grid, and in the overview but so far the only radial menu I have seen is for the scanner .
Temuken Radzu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-05-10 09:03:03 UTC
AK Wilson wrote:
I’m undoubtedly doing something stupid but I can’t find radial menus.

I’ve left and right clicked on stuff in space, both on and off grid, and in the overview but so far the only radial menu I have seen is for the scanner .


Hold your left mouse button on a bracket, stargate, station or any other object in your overview. The radial menu should then appear.
AK Wilson
Material School
#74 - 2013-05-10 09:23:49 UTC
Temuken Radzu wrote:
AK Wilson wrote:
I’m undoubtedly doing something stupid but I can’t find radial menus.

I’ve left and right clicked on stuff in space, both on and off grid, and in the overview but so far the only radial menu I have seen is for the scanner .


Hold your left mouse button on a bracket, stargate, station or any other object in your overview. The radial menu should then appear.

Thanks that worked.
CCP Masheen
C C P
C C P Alliance
#75 - 2013-05-10 10:30:29 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Masheen
Shade Millith wrote:
Why on earth are you randomly changing the locations of the icons? Do you have a reason? Or is it just to have something new?[/b]


Hi,

to try explain the team's rationale in how the new Radial menu is designed I need to explain the background a little.

We're the same team that redesigned the targeting brackets and damage messages. After Retribution, our team [Pony Express] has been prototyping and refining the new radial menu constantly since December.

The new Radial menu is not an update of the old one. The 'old' radial menu was something that was put into EVE a long time ago as an alternative to the right-click menu. It was not extensively designed nor refined after release. The reason why we chose to redesign the radial menu was that with an all new design without constraints we could design a layout designed to minimize errors and help with muscle-memory learning.

Addressing the small number of players who used the old menu, if we do not change the layout before Odyssey is released you may have to make a new effort to familiarize yourself with the new layout but the hope is that after that familiarization period you find that it is much faster to use, easier to read and more powerful with more features such as customizable Orbit, Warp and Keep at Range distances.

BUT! things may still change, we will make some changes based on your feedback

- EVE Online Quality Assurance -
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#76 - 2013-05-10 10:36:20 UTC
I'm one of those who never used the old menu, I am not even sure how it was opened as this only happened to me by accident and it appeared useless Lol So I think your rationale is sound.

.
Darius Shakor
Second Shakor Clan
#77 - 2013-05-10 10:54:13 UTC
Please add in the options in the menu to change what button activates it. A long press on left click is annoying when you are panning the camera round and.. oops, radial menu! Would like it to be set to middle mouse button as an option again like before.

Darius Shakor - Kacha

Vandeamon Writing Project - EVE Works
Kay 0ss
OCP Industries.
#78 - 2013-05-10 11:01:52 UTC
I do like the new menu. Its much better than that useless thing that pops up every now and again and generally just gets in the way. As others have said the are some screens that feel like it should be there and its a little of putting that is not. More than once I was left thinking it was broken till I remembered that it was not supposed to be there.

Just a few points you probably already know about.

1) Some of the options it gives for targets are a little strange. For npc’s the top option is empty I feel that should be attack and with other players the option it gives is board ship which is not helpful when someone is in it and shooting at you.

2) When you select your own drone the option to attack is there but you have to select each drone in space one at a time. If its one of the slow drones its hard if its a Warrior 2 then you're just wasting time trying to select it in space. This really needs to work with groups in the main drone window.

3) The is no option to recall drones only scoop to cargo bay. It needs to be return to drone bay or scoop to drone bay preferably both.
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#79 - 2013-05-10 11:02:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Shade Millith
CCP Masheen wrote:
Shade Millith wrote:
Why on earth are you randomly changing the locations of the icons? Do you have a reason? Or is it just to have something new?[/b]


Hi,

to try explain the team's rationale in how the new Radial menu is designed I need to explain the background a little.

We're the same team that redesigned the targeting brackets and damage messages. After Retribution, our team [Pony Express] has been prototyping and refining the new radial menu constantly since December.

The new Radial menu is not an update of the old one. The 'old' radial menu was something that was put into EVE a long time ago as an alternative to the right-click menu. It was not extensively designed nor refined after release. The reason why we chose to redesign the radial menu was that with an all new design without constraints we could design a layout designed to minimize errors and help with muscle-memory learning.

Addressing the small number of players who used the old menu, if we do not change the layout before Odyssey is released you may have to make a new effort to familiarize yourself with the new layout but the hope is that after that familiarization period you find that it is much faster to use, easier to read and more powerful with more features such as customizable Orbit, Warp and Keep at Range distances.

BUT! things may still change, we will make some changes based on your feedback


I guess I'm just irritated (Really, really irritated. Day was already bad when I found out the Radial Menu change, making it go from bad to horrid) that I'm going to have to go back to basics once more, and relearn my muscle memory.

Is it possible to allow customization at all? I know you did that with the Neocom. For me, a strong Radial Menu would be the old one, with the current layout just flat out annoying. Just having 'Look At' underneath a submenu is bad enough.

If you want to make a stronger tool for pilots, allowing them to set what icons they need and where those icons are would be a good step forward.
Rammix
TheMurk
#80 - 2013-05-10 11:08:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
The scan button is ok, objections about it sound stupid to me. You just click this button then move your mouse slightly to the left and click once more. If you don't use scanning window often then one additional and totally easy click can not be a problem. If you actively use scanning window you just have it open constantly. I see no problem at all.

Regarding the 'real' radial menu, its problem is that at this moment it has pretty poor functionality and no way to build custom button layouts. Addition of constructor-like functionality to it could make it awesome (I mean some settings window where you can manage button layout and add new custom buttons).
And other thing is that radial menu's shortcut must be freely changeable, allowing us to assign any mouse or keyboard button to it. It's 2013, mice have more than 2 buttons.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread