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Nightmare vs RNI/CRN
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Nate Armstrong
Ven0m Ltd.
#1 - 2013-05-09 03:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nate Armstrong
Ok. I have been doing level 4 missions with my CRN for quite awhile assuming it was one of the better/best mission ships. I was in a discussion with a corp mate and he said a nightmare would be a decent upgrade. I am posting here to see if there is any validation to his comment. I don't know if I haven't search enough but I haven't seen too much information on a lvl 4 mission nightmare. Reason im considering switching though is because I also do incursions and we all know missile boats don't do well there. Am at the point where I can sell my CRN for a nightmare but I want to be able to keep my ability to run level 4 missions easily. The only reason I would switch is to have a better 'universal' ship.

I currently mission in the Khanid Region

Any fits for the nightmare? What are the suggested skills? I have heard they are VERY cap hungry. I'm not familiar with lasers much and would have to train for them since all I have are missile skills.


Any suggestions/opinions/validation to switching to a nightmare over a CRN to do level 4 missions?


Thanks!

-Nate
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#2 - 2013-05-09 03:30:32 UTC
Nightmare isn't cap hungry if you manage your cap. Nightmare really shines if you fit faction <3
Nate Armstrong
Ven0m Ltd.
#3 - 2013-05-09 03:53:13 UTC
bloodknight2 wrote:
Nightmare isn't cap hungry if you manage your cap. Nightmare really shines if you fit faction <3


I have decent cap skills. But is it a "upgrade" for missions. I mean even if its the same as the CRN I wouldn't care too much since its so much better then incursions.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#4 - 2013-05-09 04:54:41 UTC
If you are looking for the best L4 mission ship it's the Rattlesnake.
hellcane
Never Back Down
#5 - 2013-05-09 05:11:48 UTC
If you get a lot of missions against em/therm weak rats, NM would be an upgrade.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-05-09 07:20:43 UTC
Here's my suggestion: wait for Odyssey. After it hits, the CNR will get a 30% boost in damage output, becoming pretty much the king of ranged combat in PVE. If you'll still want an alternative, you might want to look for something fast that can punch well up close - a Vindicator or a Machariel for instance - to complement the CNR.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-05-09 08:42:07 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Here's my suggestion: wait for Odyssey. After it hits, the CNR will get a 30% boost in damage output, becoming pretty much the king of ranged combat in PVE. If you'll still want an alternative, you might want to look for something fast that can punch well up close - a Vindicator or a Machariel for instance - to complement the CNR.

This.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#8 - 2013-05-09 09:31:12 UTC
I used a NM for missions and Incursions till I finished T2 gun f\or the Mach. And yes it was an excellent mission boat even with the Incursion rigs on it.... of course it could have been a matter of to much ISK, but here is the Pulse fit.

[Nightmare, SatanClause Pulse]

4x Mega Pulse Laser II (Imperial Navy Multifrequency L)
Imperial Navy Heavy Nosferatu
Auto Targeting System II

2x Gistum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer (Optimal Range Script)
Heavy Capacitor Booster II (Navy Cap Booster 800)
Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive

Damage Control II
4x Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II

5x Warrior II
5x Hammerhead II

1x Scorch L
1x Conflagration L
1x Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
1x Imperial Navy Microwave L
1x Imperial Navy Infrared L
1x Dark Blood Xray L
1x Imperial Navy Gamma L

[Statistics - Goldiiee]

Effective HP: 115,668 (Eve: 101,612)
Tank Ability: 904.27 DPS

Capacitor (Stable at 91.42%)

Volley Damage: 4,347.11
DPS: 1,110.52

Fun and 'easy button' for LVL-4 missions.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-05-09 09:32:01 UTC
Nightmare won't beat CNR once Odyseey hits. CNR not only gets ~ 30% moar damage, the 50 calibration faction-ships will get on top of it will make it possible to fit 2x Rigor II and 1x Rigor I :)

Yes, Nightmare is the better incursion-boat and the better mission boat against EM/THERM - missions, but it still can't beat the CNR's allround-capabilitys.

If you want to have a solo lv 4 and incursion pwnmobile, train for the mach.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#10 - 2013-05-09 09:37:53 UTC
Gimme more Cynos wrote:
Nightmare won't beat CNR once Odyseey hits. CNR not only gets ~ 30% moar damage, the 50 calibration faction-ships will get on top of it will make it possible to fit 2x Rigor II and 1x Rigor I :)

Yes, Nightmare is the better incursion-boat and the better mission boat against EM/THERM - missions, but it still can't beat the CNR's allround-capabilitys.

If you want to have a solo lv 4 and incursion pwnmobile, train for the mach.

^^ this

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#11 - 2013-05-09 11:07:47 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
I used a NM for missions and Incursions till I finished T2 gun f\or the Mach. And yes it was an excellent mission boat even with the Incursion rigs on it.... of course it could have been a matter of to much ISK, but here is the Pulse fit.

[Nightmare, SatanClause Pulse]

4x Mega Pulse Laser II (Imperial Navy Multifrequency L)
Imperial Navy Heavy Nosferatu
Auto Targeting System II

2x Gistum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer (Optimal Range Script)
Heavy Capacitor Booster II (Navy Cap Booster 800)
Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive

Damage Control II
4x Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II

5x Warrior II
5x Hammerhead II

1x Scorch L
1x Conflagration L
1x Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
1x Imperial Navy Microwave L
1x Imperial Navy Infrared L
1x Dark Blood Xray L
1x Imperial Navy Gamma L

[Statistics - Goldiiee]

Effective HP: 115,668 (Eve: 101,612)
Tank Ability: 904.27 DPS

Capacitor (Stable at 91.42%)

Volley Damage: 4,347.11
DPS: 1,110.52

Fun and 'easy button' for LVL-4 missions.


Tach fit is better for missions. This lacks range on some missions and even though you can burn there in an MWD Tachs deal 1k damage to 45+45km so it's pretty hard to beat.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#12 - 2013-05-09 12:54:42 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Tach fit is better for missions. This lacks range on some missions and even though you can burn there in an MWD Tachs deal 1k damage to 45+45km so it's pretty hard to beat.

Yeah when I use Tachs I drop some tank, pulses need a little more tank for the up-close quickness of it all, Tachs are more of a pick the closest rat and pop it strategy.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#13 - 2013-05-09 18:17:38 UTC
Gimme more Cynos wrote:
Nightmare won't beat CNR once Odyseey hits. CNR not only gets ~ 30% moar damage, the 50 calibration faction-ships will get on top of it will make it possible to fit 2x Rigor II and 1x Rigor I :)

Yes, Nightmare is the better incursion-boat and the better mission boat against EM/THERM - missions, but it still can't beat the CNR's allround-capabilitys.

If you want to have a solo lv 4 and incursion pwnmobile, train for the mach.


I +1'd that but disagree about after Oddesy. I ran missions with a CNR and Mach and the mach beats the CNR by more than 30% ISK/hr, and raw DPS does not scale proportionally to income.

In the region you are in, the NM will be the best even after Oddesy, but the Mach will still be the best all around IMHO. NM VERY close second. The difference is that the mach is better against Sanshas than the NM is against Angels.

As far as CNR not being good for incursions, it depends on which ones you fly. It is a better snipe ship than the mach, thats been tested extensively. The reason the mach is more popular, is that if you're not flying assaults, you can simply switch guns instead of ships. Its a pain in the ass to bring 2 ships from incursion to incursion.

I am comparing faction fits on all 3 for the record. They are all "uber" ships and do not shine unless they are fit properly.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2013-05-09 20:04:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Cage Man
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Here's my suggestion: wait for Odyssey. After it hits, the CNR will get a 30% boost in damage output, becoming pretty much the king of ranged combat in PVE. If you'll still want an alternative, you might want to look for something fast that can punch well up close - a Vindicator or a Machariel for instance - to complement the CNR.

This.


It also gets a 10% explosion radius increase. Being king is not about paper dps. In my NM I would have insta popped almost every single frig that is over 20km away, with 1 turret per frig, cruisers and BC die almost as quickly.. The NM will then kill a BS at the same speed a golem does, at further ranges.. its all about applied dps.. you will not be able to do this with a CNR.. no matter how much damage bonus it gets..
The NM will also reach out easily to over 120km... so range really is not an issue.
If lasers could switch damage types I would probably never use my mach.
If you worried about cap management.. I hear passive drakes are pretty good with that :)
Best is to go on to the test server and see for yourself..

EDIT--- Just noticed no Paikis comments yet??? he normally jump on these NM discussions too.. Twisted.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#15 - 2013-05-10 04:48:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
Cage Man wrote:
EDIT--- Just noticed no Paikis comments yet??? he normally jump on these NM discussions too.. Twisted.

I was trying to be good! >.<

Nate Armstrong wrote:
Any suggestions/opinions/validation to switching to a nightmare over a CRN to do level 4 missions?

Do it. Even with meta4 guns it will outperform the CNR by a fair margin. It will perform acceptably against everything that isn't Angels, although it really only shines against Drones, Sansha and Blood Raiders. Against those 3 factions it is the best ship in the game.

I personally went from running missions in a cruise CNR to the Nightmare and I've never looked back.

bloodknight2 wrote:
Nightmare isn't cap hungry if you manage your cap. Nightmare really shines if you fit faction <3


Faction guns will ease the cap burden significantly. T2 Tachyons will drain your cap so fast your head will spin.
Osiris Andras
Intergalactic Space Maoris
#16 - 2013-05-10 05:00:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Osiris Andras
OP: If you have zero laser skills and only average cap management skills I can't see it being worth your while to train for the NM. Maybe focus one of the stronger missile boats. Can't speak for upcoming Raven changes either.

I don't have personal experience with the NM due to a current lack of funds, but I have done a lot of research on it - it is out there, just have to look.

Yes - the NM is redonkulous for Incursions and against EM/Therm-weak rats like you are facing but it does need a lot of SP to properly back it up. (Amarr + Caldari combo is one of the least synergystic imo)

If you do decide to get a NM, bling it up and make it worth your while (temper with "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" etc etc). Use tachys, not pulses - and if you don't have it already, train long range targetting to at least IV, even though it isn't a pre-req on the guns.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-05-10 05:13:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
Cage Man wrote:

It also gets a 10% explosion radius increase...
The CNR is also getting a "rigging increase". So now the standard will probably be two Rigor IIs and a Flare II.

..and perhaps a 7th mid slot. Another painter.
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-05-10 06:52:23 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Cage Man wrote:

It also gets a 10% explosion radius increase...
The CNR is also getting a "rigging increase". So now the standard will probably be two Rigor IIs and a Flare II.

..and perhaps a 7th mid slot. Another painter.


BUUHHHHHHH

Use two RIGOR II's and a Rigor I ! :D

Anyway, we will see what the CNR does with the nightmare once odysee hits.. ehehehe ;)
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-05-10 07:35:31 UTC
Paikis wrote:
...I personally went from running missions in a cruise CNR to the Nightmare and I've never looked back...
Then you sound like the guy I need to talk to.

I am just looking for information/opinions on the Nightmare. What are it's strengths and what are it's disadvantages. What needs improvement and why.

I have never flown one... and won't anytime soon Perhaps someday. Blink
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-05-10 07:37:11 UTC
Gimme more Cynos wrote:

Anyway, we will see what the CNR does with the nightmare once odysee hits.. ehehehe ;)
No matter what... the CNR is getting a strong buff. Can't complain about that. Big smile
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