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Talking of Ice:

Author
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-05-08 20:57:38 UTC
Has there been an official reasoning as to why we can't have Ice in wormholes?

My thought is that they want us to leave occasionally, but I'm kind of annoyed that they're reducing the amount of available Ice in high-sec (our primary source of Ice for many wormholers) and we're not getting any new "Ice Sites" with the grav change-over.

I'm sort of deliriously in love with the idea of a purely wormhole life, even though I know I'd never bother producing my own ships and mods, etc. It would be nice if we could not only cook our own fuel but actually get the Ice for it.

Am I missing some over-arching point about why Ice doesn't exist in w-space?

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.

Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-05-08 21:05:42 UTC
This kinda ticked me off. They moved the ice to encourage ice mining in null to "locally support" operations however they didn't bother considering us.

I understand they don't want all resources to be available to keep us dependent but now things have changed.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Phaderift
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2013-05-08 21:31:28 UTC
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Has there been an official reasoning as to why we can't have Ice in wormholes?

My thought is that they want us to leave occasionally, but I'm kind of annoyed that they're reducing the amount of available Ice in high-sec (our primary source of Ice for many wormholers) and we're not getting any new "Ice Sites" with the grav change-over.

I'm sort of deliriously in love with the idea of a purely wormhole life, even though I know I'd never bother producing my own ships and mods, etc. It would be nice if we could not only cook our own fuel but actually get the Ice for it.

Am I missing some over-arching point about why Ice doesn't exist in w-space?

Svo.



Yes they never intended for you to live in it at the start. CCP has said many times WH's were not supposed to become inhabited it just kind of happened as such they were never designed to be self sufficient. Yea i would love to have ice in hole but it won't happen
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-05-08 23:08:38 UTC
Phaderift wrote:
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Has there been an official reasoning as to why we can't have Ice in wormholes?

My thought is that they want us to leave occasionally, but I'm kind of annoyed that they're reducing the amount of available Ice in high-sec (our primary source of Ice for many wormholers) and we're not getting any new "Ice Sites" with the grav change-over.

I'm sort of deliriously in love with the idea of a purely wormhole life, even though I know I'd never bother producing my own ships and mods, etc. It would be nice if we could not only cook our own fuel but actually get the Ice for it.

Am I missing some over-arching point about why Ice doesn't exist in w-space?

Svo.



Yes they never intended for you to live in it at the start. CCP has said many times WH's were not supposed to become inhabited it just kind of happened as such they were never designed to be self sufficient. Yea i would love to have ice in hole but it won't happen



They shouldn't have put so many moons in here then... not that you're arguing for that, just silliness really.

Svo

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.

Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#5 - 2013-05-08 23:25:05 UTC
Phaderift wrote:
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Has there been an official reasoning as to why we can't have Ice in wormholes?

My thought is that they want us to leave occasionally, but I'm kind of annoyed that they're reducing the amount of available Ice in high-sec (our primary source of Ice for many wormholers) and we're not getting any new "Ice Sites" with the grav change-over.

I'm sort of deliriously in love with the idea of a purely wormhole life, even though I know I'd never bother producing my own ships and mods, etc. It would be nice if we could not only cook our own fuel but actually get the Ice for it.

Am I missing some over-arching point about why Ice doesn't exist in w-space?

Svo.



Yes they never intended for you to live in it at the start. CCP has said many times WH's were not supposed to become inhabited it just kind of happened as such they were never designed to be self sufficient. Yea i would love to have ice in hole but it won't happen

They also said they liked how it turned out and don't want to destroy it. "We never thought you'd do that" isn't an excuse, either.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-05-08 23:33:09 UTC
Phaderift wrote:
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Has there been an official reasoning as to why we can't have Ice in wormholes?

My thought is that they want us to leave occasionally, but I'm kind of annoyed that they're reducing the amount of available Ice in high-sec (our primary source of Ice for many wormholers) and we're not getting any new "Ice Sites" with the grav change-over.

I'm sort of deliriously in love with the idea of a purely wormhole life, even though I know I'd never bother producing my own ships and mods, etc. It would be nice if we could not only cook our own fuel but actually get the Ice for it.

Am I missing some over-arching point about why Ice doesn't exist in w-space?

Svo.



Yes they never intended for you to live in it at the start. CCP has said many times WH's were not supposed to become inhabited it just kind of happened as such they were never designed to be self sufficient. Yea i would love to have ice in hole but it won't happen


Which I have never understood. I mean who would bother going to the trouble of finding a C5, harvesting say a Vital (~60,000m3 of gas) without actually living inside. And that is just one piece to the T3 chain.
Xessej
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-05-09 01:56:22 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Which I have never understood. I mean who would bother going to the trouble of finding a C5, harvesting say a Vital (~60,000m3 of gas) without actually living inside. And that is just one piece to the T3 chain.

I think their vision of T3's was they would be extremely rare. If corps didn't live in WH's the quantity of sleeper salvage and relics would be much much lower which would mean far fewer T3's.
Indo Nira
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-05-09 02:01:24 UTC
Xessej wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Which I have never understood. I mean who would bother going to the trouble of finding a C5, harvesting say a Vital (~60,000m3 of gas) without actually living inside. And that is just one piece to the T3 chain.

I think their vision of T3's was they would be extremely rare. If corps didn't live in WH's the quantity of sleeper salvage and relics would be much much lower which would mean far fewer T3's.


i feel like a lot of this game was just am 'improv act' of devs making / changing content and then going around after patch day: "hmmmmm. why did i never think of that?!"
Urban Trucker
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-05-09 10:36:56 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2963911#post2963911

CCP Fozzie wrote:
New wormhole space with no moons is an idea I have liked for a while. And yes, if we do ever add more wormhole space we can re-evaluate the option of giving that new space ice.


That is about as close as you will get.

I am for sale (Fenrir Freighter Pilot, 1.4 mil skillpoints, cheap)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2982440#post2982440

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-05-09 10:53:16 UTC
I wish CCP would reconsider putting ice fields in wormholes.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#11 - 2013-05-09 11:01:10 UTC
CCP said in the wh-roundtable that they don't want us to get everything from wormholes. They want us to get out once in a while as well and interact with the rest of eve.

Wormholer for life.

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-05-09 11:24:39 UTC
That's fair enough, but i'd guess that around 95% of WH residence don't got to K space for ice, someone else in the corporation is usually given that job.

I don't think a WH group should be able to mine ice to support their WH POS indefinitely but if even 20% of your ice needs were obtainable in wormholes, it would increase activity in space and provide more content for everyone.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-05-09 11:50:37 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
CCP said in the wh-roundtable that they don't want us to get everything from wormholes. They want us to get out once in a while as well and interact with the rest of eve.

By interact, you mean roll down the chain until you find a HS near a hub, grab fuel, and roll again.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

notha atfast
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-05-09 16:18:09 UTC
Wh systems get an Ice anom once a week. Something that is scannable with the on-board scanner like they are proposing. It's something the WH dwellers desire to have and fight to mine and it will increase some ganking of miners in WH space...what's not to love?
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#15 - 2013-05-09 16:30:40 UTC
Also, there is already a system in place. We already can't refine materials without taking huge hits. That would be incentive enough to interact with high sec imo unless you are in a c4, I suppose. And that's not taking clones, etc. into account.

The only problem they/we would face is that you would have to randomize faction ice spawning.
Phaderift
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2013-05-09 16:39:35 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
CCP said in the wh-roundtable that they don't want us to get everything from wormholes. They want us to get out once in a while as well and interact with the rest of eve.

By interact, you mean roll down the chain until you find a HS near a hub, grab fuel, and roll again.



yea in all honesty i think they need to add some WH systems that every WH has an addition way to and they are just dummy systems .. no moons, but contain resources that can be harvested, sleeper stuff ice minerals .. but make a limited number of these systems .. say like 100 of them and every hole in the game can connect to them .. would make for massive conflict in WH space. maybe make them accessed through a player made structure that must be built in the Wh outta sleeper loots and can't be moved. So you establish in what is current Wh space and then build this structute which opens into deep deep unknown full of wonder amazement and danger, where you can't get a PoS, and make the number of them low enough that you are never alone in that system, always have to fight to claim the resources within with either other players or the sleepers that live there, would be fun.
AtomYcX
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-05-09 17:08:46 UTC
Phaderift wrote:
yea in all honesty i think they need to add some WH systems that every WH has an addition way to and they are just dummy systems .. no moons, but contain resources that can be harvested, sleeper stuff ice minerals .. but make a limited number of these systems .. say like 100 of them and every hole in the game can connect to them .. would make for massive conflict in WH space. maybe make them accessed through a player made structure that must be built in the Wh outta sleeper loots and can't be moved. So you establish in what is current Wh space and then build this structute which opens into deep deep unknown full of wonder amazement and danger, where you can't get a PoS, and make the number of them low enough that you are never alone in that system, always have to fight to claim the resources within with either other players or the sleepers that live there, would be fun.


You know what, I actually like the sound of that. As long as the existing systems stayed as-is in regards to POS's then having systems that can't be heavily fortified but with high value resources in would be a great conflict driver.

Quantum Spade
Shadows of the Empire
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#18 - 2013-05-09 17:21:52 UTC
All I hear is "I want to farm uninhabited systems for easy money"
Yokomaki
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-05-09 17:55:58 UTC
Phaderift wrote:
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Has there been an official reasoning as to why we can't have Ice in wormholes?

My thought is that they want us to leave occasionally, but I'm kind of annoyed that they're reducing the amount of available Ice in high-sec (our primary source of Ice for many wormholers) and we're not getting any new "Ice Sites" with the grav change-over.

I'm sort of deliriously in love with the idea of a purely wormhole life, even though I know I'd never bother producing my own ships and mods, etc. It would be nice if we could not only cook our own fuel but actually get the Ice for it.

Am I missing some over-arching point about why Ice doesn't exist in w-space?

Svo.



Yes they never intended for you to live in it at the start. CCP has said many times WH's were not supposed to become inhabited it just kind of happened as such they were never designed to be self sufficient. Yea i would love to have ice in hole but it won't happen


They said they didn't intend for people to live in WHs but recently in the WH Roundtable thread they said, however, that now that they see how much players enjoy it they do not plan on taking that away from them. So while it wasn't their plan for people to live in WHs, it became successful and they got lucky by accident. They aren't going to try to keep people from living in WHs but at this point encourage WH space more.
Phaderift
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#20 - 2013-05-09 18:11:43 UTC
Quantum Spade wrote:
All I hear is "I want to farm uninhabited systems for easy money"


then you need to get your ears checked friend .. let me put it into fewer words ..

I want systems that are worth fighting over that can't be fortified. Think more like arenas where you can claim some prizes after you clear the field.
The idea would be to have so few of them that they are never "empty" yet at the same time have the entrances controlled so that traditional Wh space is still what it is now. Thunderdomes if you will.

Open portal send in scout .. find hostiles in system harvesting or even fighting .. join the fray , the fight ends, the winner gets to grab what spoils are in the area. At least till the next guy comes in looking to fight.
Keep them limited in number of systems and add an algorithm limiting the number of times you can open into the same one in a given 24 hour period to prevent people from being able to use them like bridges.
Have the portals fueled by say blue loots to add an alternate use for them as opposed to being an isk facet.
NO outgoing holes only incoming .. so you get stuck and you must either fight your way out another person's portal or negotiate a way back to the unknown to then scan back to kspace, gives the option to commit to the engagement with full force and then either wait to role your portal back into it or find another way out.
To balance it a bit more make it so portals in lower class systems generate lower mass capable portals, lots of things could be done with this.. but the idea would be get fights and if you win reap rewards, for a bit.
if i wanted to farm empty systems .. well there are plenty of c5 expeditionable holes out there i could do that with.
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