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Cyno timer - it's time to revisit
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monkfish2345
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-05-09 15:52:40 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
monkfish2345 wrote:
Personally i'd be happy in a situation where only cov ops and recons could cyno.

if your really concerned about losing your cyno ship, there is a fairly simple answer...... defend it.


Sounds legit. Guaranteed covops/recon kill at most every cyno you see sounds sweet.



why do you presume every cyno would be a lone cov ops or recon?

it would require a change in player mentality and would actually further encourage players to help each other out if they have to put something a little more valuable on the line.

this is an mmo after all.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#22 - 2013-05-09 16:05:55 UTC
monkfish2345 wrote:
encourage players to help each other out


Correct.

Why do you assume someone can't warp snipers in at long range and blap the **** out of a cyno ship that's sitting helpless, before his buddies can do anything about it?

They'd be helping each other out, since this is an MMO, and it might take more than one Tornado to do it efficiently.
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-05-09 16:35:36 UTC
Theoretically, would it be terribly game-breaking if you could turn a cyno off at will?
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#24 - 2013-05-09 16:54:00 UTC
Xavier Thorm wrote:
Theoretically, would it be terribly game-breaking if you could turn a cyno off at will?


No, because it's exactly the same as simply logging out your throwaway cyno alt now.

I don't necessarily have an issue with changing these mechanics, but some people seem to have the idea that the only folks lighting cynos are nullsec alliances hot dropping others.

They don't consider what's going to happen to that indy jump freighter (Black Frog, etc.) shipping bill once those companies start losing Covops frigs and/or recon ships just to get your junk moved in and out of low/null.

And I hate to say it, but if a large alliance wants to drop a subcap/cap fleet, they're not going to give a damn about paying for a covops frig. So if this sort of idea is angled toward penalising that behavior, it's not really addressing the problem at all, simply making something more expensive/difficult for small groups and single players. (Which again, I don't care about. But you don't solve Problem A by introducing Problem B.)
Madlof Chev
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2013-05-09 16:59:21 UTC
Dumb things happening in this thread:

- Talking about limiting cyno ship classes - glhf ever baiting someone into a cyno trap if there are just a couple of ship classes that can light cynos - nobody will engage those classes of ship.

- Whining about 10min timers - either kill your cyno alt or log it off, if you're moving capitals with just one cyno alt it's practically the same as ripping off your fingernails.

Also that dumpass talking about using t2 bs and capitals to light cynos:

a) let's use my ship that i can't move without a cyno to light a cyno for these other ships that can't move without a cyno (what the hell are you smoking)

b) if you use t2 bs to move a cyno you will never, ever light a cyno again.
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-05-09 17:00:55 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Xavier Thorm wrote:
Theoretically, would it be terribly game-breaking if you could turn a cyno off at will?


No, because it's exactly the same as simply logging out your throwaway cyno alt now.

I don't necessarily have an issue with changing these mechanics, but some people seem to have the idea that the only folks lighting cynos are nullsec alliances hot dropping others.

They don't consider what's going to happen to that indy jump freighter (Black Frog, etc.) shipping bill once those companies start losing Covops frigs and/or recon ships just to get your junk moved in and out of low/null.

And I hate to say it, but if a large alliance wants to drop a subcap/cap fleet, they're not going to give a damn about paying for a covops frig. So if this sort of idea is angled toward penalising that behavior, it's not really addressing the problem at all, simply making something more expensive/difficult for small groups and single players. (Which again, I don't care about. But you don't solve Problem A by introducing Problem B.)


I agree, and my question was kind of rhetorical to see if anyone would challenge that point. I think cynos shouldn't even have a cycle time, they should just be off/on like a cloaking device. Holding you in place when on and not when off.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#27 - 2013-05-09 17:07:01 UTC
Xavier Thorm wrote:


I agree, and my question was kind of rhetorical to see if anyone would challenge that point. I think cynos shouldn't even have a cycle time, they should just be off/on like a cloaking device. Holding you in place when on and not when off.


Exactly.

I could see possibly giving it a target lock and reactivation cooldown like many cloaks use, maybe even a dock/jump timer, to make it a bit risky to bait people with it. But the whole 10 minute lockdown smacks of someone's 'great idea' from the before time, in the long long ago, when there was some kind of assumption that single players with no alts handy would want to burn out the timer and then take their combat ready ship right into the fight with their recently dropped buddies.
back labackslack chew
Corsairs of Kai
It Worked In Testing
#28 - 2013-05-10 03:50:32 UTC
Alright lets look at this to solve your problem, rather than have you complain. The fastest way to get rid of your cyno once your JF, carrier, dread,etc is though it. Well it take 2 minutes to self destruct and for a cynic shot including hull modules and fuel is 2 m tops that will solve your problem.

Your other solution is use a more tanky ship which I'll solve your,pirate problem, to a degrees(I would still shoot you if I can take the station guns), I have a prophecy with over 300k ehp and I also fly recons which have half the cynic time down to 300seconds and they aren't defenceless.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#29 - 2013-05-10 06:27:31 UTC
Madlof Chev wrote:
Dumb things happening in this thread:

- Talking about limiting cyno ship classes - glhf ever baiting someone into a cyno trap if there are just a couple of ship classes that can light cynos - nobody will engage those classes of ship.

- Whining about 10min timers - either kill your cyno alt or log it off, if you're moving capitals with just one cyno alt it's practically the same as ripping off your fingernails.

Also that dumpass talking about using t2 bs and capitals to light cynos:

a) let's use my ship that i can't move without a cyno to light a cyno for these other ships that can't move without a cyno (what the hell are you smoking)

b) if you use t2 bs to move a cyno you will never, ever light a cyno again.


1) nobody needs cyno traps, good riddance

2) that disposable nature of the throwaway alts is exactly what is broken

a) that's precisely my point you ******

b) oh such a shame, what will people do then

.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#30 - 2013-05-10 10:07:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Carniflex
I would have to correct - its not the T1 frigs anymore that are mostly used - its the noob frigs as they can now easily fit a cyno and hold enough ozone for it. Even with very low cyno skill 2x cargo expander I are sufficient.

Take the cynos as consumables. You need one for each jump - if it survives, great! if not - well just cost of doing business. I dont know many people who do cynos on their "main" - most people I know who use cynos have sub 900k SP cyno alts. Dont need that many skills for it. electronics 5, cyno gen 4, if its old alt it probably has some or all race frigs to lev 2 or 3 as well. Some even have Amarr Industrial 1 and cloaking 1 squeezed in there for Bestower.

I am not opposed to the idea of halving the cyno timers. Might make it more viable to do them on your main in shiny ship instead of using throwaway alt.

Also
Madlof Chev wrote:

b) if you use t2 bs to move a cyno you will never, ever light a cyno again.

Black Ops are nice for sending your falcon alt to some nearby cyno beacon at POS to then hop few jumps to the needed destination and make cyno there. Although that is ofc relatively uncommon practice, falcon is such a wasteful ship to do cyno in any remotely hostile enviroment. Unless you are doing back ops cyno that is ;)

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2013-05-10 12:23:19 UTC
Madlof Chev wrote:
Dumb things happening in this thread:

- Talking about limiting cyno ship classes - glhf ever baiting someone into a cyno trap if there are just a couple of ship classes that can light cynos - nobody will engage those classes of ship.

- Whining about 10min timers - either kill your cyno alt or log it off, if you're moving capitals with just one cyno alt it's practically the same as ripping off your fingernails.

Also that dumpass talking about using t2 bs and capitals to light cynos:

a) let's use my ship that i can't move without a cyno to light a cyno for these other ships that can't move without a cyno (what the hell are you smoking)

b) if you use t2 bs to move a cyno you will never, ever light a cyno again.



I wouldn't say no-one would use them, I'd imagine you guys would risk it once in a while, same for TEST and goonswarm, on specific or unopposed targets. Pretty much anyone else would never use caps again though, especially in actual combat. It's like this guy hates the very concept of smaller groups, or sov grinding that takes less than five hours per system.

Then again, he is an idiot.
Madlof Chev
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2013-05-11 12:41:05 UTC
Roime wrote:

1) nobody needs cyno traps, good riddance

2) that disposable nature of the throwaway alts is exactly what is broken

a) that's precisely my point you ******

b) oh such a shame, what will people do then



Sorry, who are you and why should anyone consider anything you have to say? People like you that whine about ~power projection~ have probably never had to engage in the logistics of setting a cyno chain up to get across the map - it's a pain in the donguer and it is very much /not fun/, but the benefits outweigh the slog.

Irrelevant publords who've never experienced capital logistics don't have anything to say on the matter.

Danika Princip wrote:

I wouldn't say no-one would use them, I'd imagine you guys would risk it once in a while, same for TEST and goonswarm, on specific or unopposed targets. Pretty much anyone else would never use caps again though, especially in actual combat. It's like this guy hates the very concept of smaller groups, or sov grinding that takes less than five hours per system.

Then again, he is an idiot


I meant more along the lines that the likelihood of a T2 BS making it to its target is practically 0, and even if it makes it it won't be in an acceptable amount of time.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2013-05-11 12:50:03 UTC
Madlof Chev wrote:


I meant more along the lines that the likelihood of a T2 BS making it to its target is practically 0, and even if it makes it it won't be in an acceptable amount of time.



Ahh, fair enough, my bad.

I guess if you sent in a bomber, lit a covert and jumped a blops to it well in advance of when you actually expected to use caps then it might be possible, but again, that'd limit caps to POS shots for the big guys and pretty much no-one else.
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