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[Odyssey Feedback Request] New Sensor Overlay

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Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#81 - 2013-05-09 07:33:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Faulx
*moves his hands together as though they're trying to put two pieces of a puzzle together that just wont fit*

The handwavium answer for everything:

Magnets....

or Probes...

or Magnetic Probes...

also see... Jumping the Shark
Silvonus
Spacewreck Emporium
#82 - 2013-05-09 08:15:41 UTC
I turned on the sensor overlay while I was testing out the other new features. While the graphics of it are great, the functionality leave much to be desired. It just is cumbersome to use when I have to twist and keep rotating my camera to see, and hope that I didn't miss anything. Some other bug and opinions:

  • If you hover over an anomaly when you turn the sensor overlay off, you will still get the pop-up.

  • Pods now have in-space system scanner(which they couldn't do before), but no "active" (old) ship scanner.

  • I would love to see better integration with probing, where the in-system info should adjust as you get more information. This could be something very fun, as you finishes scanning something down with probes, and now you don't need to be in the starmap anymore (as long as you stay in system), but it doesn't work like that now. i realize that that is what you would like, and I hope you try to make it a reality by release.

  • The sensor overlay really should create icons and beacons in the F10 solar system map. It is important to scouts and people not just what a anomaly is, but where it is. With the sensor overlay (and as you said you wish to remove the current system scanner), you are forcing people to use the in-space view to navigate. Space is empty, but with stars and nebulas and no depth of field, I personally navigate primarily when scouting etc. in the F10 starmap to understand the geography of a system, and use in-space when I need to move on the same grid. Give us the option of playstyles, don't force us into one way. Not to mention if you have many anoms in a system, it can clutter and overlap with other celestial icons, making it difficult to select what you want.

  • There also should be a way to filter results. I would like to not have my screen fill up with 40+ anomalies (which can happen in WHs), and just see signatures. Or just see grav sites and not combat. If you eliminate a list, this becomes even more important.

  • Please do not get rid of the list. Faulx summed it up very nicely:
    • Faulx wrote:
    If you remove the list view of the scanner window, you will be making it unbelievably difficult to use. The list should still be there, and clicking on an element of the list should cause the "tracking" behavior currently avaible in the directional scanner. Sometimes more things to learn is more ways to learn, which is a good thing, not a bad one.
    Solanar
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #83 - 2013-05-09 08:33:43 UTC
    Octoven wrote:
    Solanar wrote:
    Why would anyone complain about them removing the list scanner? This is obviously a much faster and easier way to find what you need:

    http://i.imgur.com/M0OPipD.png

    Good luck finding anyone before they warp out!


    Its the same overwhelming amount of information its just being displayed in a 3D way instead of a 2D way. I fail to see how having this information compiled in a list helps you to find who is where any faster.


    Except that anyone that actually plays in null will tell you there's only 1-2 that anyone actually uses, and having to dig through 20-30 random letters/numbers to find what you want instead of being able to look at a list and immediately see that one is a forsaken hub and warp to it takes ages longer.
    Zombie132
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #84 - 2013-05-09 08:51:17 UTC
    Niddengolliah wrote:
    Scanner:
    Looks cool, but a lot of the 'hits' are hard to spot, I'd like to see some sort of arrows on the edges of the screen if something was found but is off-screen.


    This ^^
    Cordelia Mulholland IV
    Hum Bole Enterprises
    #85 - 2013-05-09 09:15:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Cordelia Mulholland IV
    A few big annoyances regarding sensor overlay...

    1. When the sensor overlay is disabled, the mouse-over popups for anoms and sigs still display in space when you mouse-over their location (even though no icon is seen). This would be infuriating during a battle.
    2. With sensor overlay disabled, re-enabling it causes the sweep to run continuously in all systems that I subsequently enter. I can't get back to the "scan on entering space, show me the anoms / sigs and then stop" mode. It's all or nothing once you've disabled / enabled it.
    3. I'm looking for sigs / anoms. The results from the sensor sweep are displayed in space. I have to look at every part of space to see the results from the sweep. This became tedious after 3 systems, made me not want to bother after 5 and made me nauseous after 7. It's also easy to miss an anom this way as there is no way to know if you've covered all of space whilst "looking".
    4. There is no interaction between probed results (system scanner) and sensor sweep results. I have a sig probed to 100%. I go back to view space. A sensor sweep still tells me my 100% located sig is "over there somewhere and you can't warp to it", even though I can via the system scanner window.


    Summary of my thoughts regarding the sensor overlay...

    • If I'm exploring, I will disable it. DSPs and system scan give me quicker, more convenient and summarized information without me having to search for it, then mouse over it and then remember the information shown for each anom.
    • If I'm out looking for trouble, I'd probably want to keep the overlay enabled. However, I'd want a quick click button (or shortcut) to remove the overlay when I land on someone that's running an anom. Those popups would annoy the crap out of me.

    It currently feels poorly integrated with probing and it feels like wasted effort to use it when exploring. It is possibly more useful when running anoms (not when there are many in system though) and it's definitely useful for hunting people who run anoms.


    Other stuff:

    • With sensor overlay disabled, the sweep still occurs when entering space. Would be nice to have it fully disabled.
    • Once I have probed a sig to 100%, the sig does not remain at 100% when probing the next sig. Please make previously 100% probed sigs persistent in the system scanner window otherwise it's temporary bookmark hell.
    • When probing, I find a sig and move onto probing another. I need to change the range of my probes back to say 8AUs. I now have no feedback as to what I'm setting them to if I use the efficient "click and drag the edges" method. The only reliable way to do it is select all probes in the system scanner window, right click, set range, 8AUs. Much more of a p.i.t.a. than before.
    • The cool new jump animation is cool. But it also resets the zoom level after each jump. That's not so cool.
    Unforgiven Storm
    Eternity INC.
    Goonswarm Federation
    #86 - 2013-05-09 09:24:54 UTC
    another problem, if I have the sensor overlay turn on, I logout and login, is disconnected, it doesn't remember my setting.

    Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
    Unforgiven Storm
    Eternity INC.
    Goonswarm Federation
    #87 - 2013-05-09 09:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Unforgiven Storm
    now let be a junior game design and advise you of some improvements.

    Information

    The overlay information in the screen can be improved:

    - the colors should vary depending of scan strength, for example show a red when the scan is less than 20%. Show yellow if it is between 20-99%, show green when it is 100%.
    - the overlay symbols should be different depending of the site they represent, use different symbols for mining sites/pve sites/wormholes, etc.
    - the id of a site doesn't give me any information I can use, show us the name of the site and the distance like in the tooltips of any other celestial in a system.

    Integration with other systems

    - create a filter and respective options in the overview that allow us to see the results of the scan there
    - Use colors/symbols to tell us what is warpable (100%) and what is not.
    - slowly fade out this results in the overview after 1 minute so we know that this are not normal beacons but scan results, but keep them visible.
    - Add a new button to the select window that allow us to manually run the sensor one time, one time only, to refresh the scan results and this way the overview results also.
    - map a shortcut key to this new button

    Buttons

    First, 2 clicks to open a window in a specific tab is one click to much. My recommendation:

    - one click (mouse press/mouse release) opens the scan window in the last tab used (remembers my last used tab).
    - one click without releasing the mouse button (mouse pressed) opens the new button with the four choices.

    About the choices available in that button, we need one more choice (total of 5).

    - one button should allow us to disconnect/connect the auto scan feature after we jump
    - one button should allow us to show/hide the overlay information in the screen / activate/deactivate the continuous scanning
    - 3 buttons for the 3 tabs of the scan window that open the respective tab

    Options

    - like the orbit function, allows to config:

    1 - the seconds of interval the scan runs when I turn the overlay on
    2 - the seconds the overlay information is in the screen before it starts to fade out when the auto scan is on

    Data Persistence

    Keep all options, button selections and scan window tab selected saved between sessions and for each character, not for each client.

    Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
    Altrue
    Exploration Frontier inc
    Tactical-Retreat
    #88 - 2013-05-09 09:58:40 UTC
    It would be cool to have a way to keep the informations on screen without having the green scan running constantly. It gave me a headache :D (no lie)

    Or have it running once per minut for example, instead of constantly rotating.

    Signature Tanking Best Tanking

    [Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

    Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
    Tanaka Aiko
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #89 - 2013-05-09 10:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Aiko
    Someone asked me an interesting question ; with this new scanner, as it can check new things every seconds, you should be able to know when a new wormhole appear on your system without doing anything (I can't test that, but on theory it should from what I understand). This seems a bit OP (but on the same level as the grav -> ano change... on the other side), did CCP though about it?
    Servanda
    Liga Freier Terraner
    Northern Coalition.
    #90 - 2013-05-09 11:22:42 UTC
    Could you add an option to show the curent distance to an annomaly in the brackets? Right now we will have to hover the mouse over them.


    Also when a side is scanned down the position dosen't change nore the options like warp bookmark and so on.
    Arduemont
    Rotten Legion
    #91 - 2013-05-09 11:44:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
    Looks fantastic, and I love being able to run it continuously.

    However, I think having it run every time you enter a system or undock really detracts from the feature. I was only on the test server for about 30 minutes and it got old really really fast. Besides, I don't think that information should be spoon fed to anyone. If they're not consciously turning the scanner on, they shouldn't be getting the information.

    Edit: Having it run automatically when you enter a system kind of destroys the purpose of certain sites being anomalies. Example, you made the Ice sites anomalies now (which is great) but if they always show automatically when you enter the system you might as well have not bothered.

    "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
    Octoven
    Stellar Production
    #92 - 2013-05-09 11:48:24 UTC
    Tanaka Aiko wrote:
    Someone asked me an interesting question ; with this new scanner, as it can check new things every seconds, you should be able to know when a new wormhole appear on your system without doing anything (I can't test that, but on theory it should from what I understand). This seems a bit OP (but on the same level as the grav -> ano change... on the other side), did CCP though about it?


    Well you also have to remember that you would need to be looking in the direction the new hole would open in order to see it appear in space, unless you happen to be spinning your camera the whole time :) I think thats a good balance to it though is that you can only see new ids pop up in view on the camera.

    If you are on the last planet in the system this may be easier to do though.
    Caitlyn Tufy
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #93 - 2013-05-09 12:11:39 UTC
    Overall, I like the overlay. I do, however, have two complaints:

    1. I'm on my way through null, looking for a specific site, say, only Hubs and Heavens. Whenever I enter the system, the scanner runs, popping up all the anomalies and signatures. If there's 10-20 of them in the system, it's a royal pain in the behind to find the one I'm looking for. I should either be able to filter out unwanted results (say, only displaying hubs, ice sites, signatures) or get all the results on a list like we did with ship scanner now.

    2. I'm scanning signatures, get a 100% hit on wormhole, yet the scanner still shows 5% signal strength. The overlay should display the site as 100%.

    Other than that, I'm only slightly annoyed by the radial menu, but I guess I'll get used to it.
    ChaseTheLasers
    Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
    #94 - 2013-05-09 12:15:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ChaseTheLasers
    Please don't remove the list of results - it's the only sane way of bookmarking and warping to sites at any sort of reasonable speed. Moving the camera around constantly to find a site just brings us back to fighting the UI which you've been working so hard to improve over the years.

    A few things:

    All results from the on-board scanner should show on the list. Currently I can see things in space that are not on the list. This includes anything that is not at 100%

    I can't see an obvious way to arrange the list results like before. I should be able to click a header for the sig IDs for example, and have them ascend / descend for all the sections in the list.

    Has there been any tests on how this is going to alter wormhole mechanics? I've done a few tests and some areas are quite different now (finding ships in sites faster for example). I know the main goal here is to improve the scanner, but the knock on effect isn't as small as you'd think.

    Some sites appear 'together' on the 3D scanner and selecting them is hard.

    Selecting multiple results on the list by shift clicking barely changes the colour - it's hard to know if they're actually selected. The only obvious change is the arrow on the right hand side and its background colour.

    You can't right click + align to a site from the list. Really needed for when taking fleets into wormhold sites and the alpha can be high.

    The solar system map view only shows anoms / sigs when they're clicked in the list, otherwise they're hidden. They should all show but the selected one should be highlighted.

    You can't interact with known sites on the solar system map - no right click + warp to / bookmark and so on...

    I can't speak for nullsec, but some of these changes are a bit detrimental to how things currently are in wormholes. And we all saw at Fanfest how much we like wormholes ;)
    Raxlaa
    Steel Winters Stellar Enterprises
    #95 - 2013-05-09 12:23:35 UTC
    Is there any reason the list of signatures found during the system scan isn't then displayed on the system map screen with the same info for each site as can be seen in space?
    Gilbaron
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #96 - 2013-05-09 12:31:52 UTC
    giving a rough direction of where to look for stuff is cool, but its mostly useless once i am in the scanning interface itself, because the second i click to get in the map, that information is gone
    Aprudena Gist
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #97 - 2013-05-09 12:36:38 UTC
    The current d-scan is about 10 times more useful and friendly then this **** get rid of it.
    mynnna
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #98 - 2013-05-09 12:54:12 UTC
    Faulx wrote:
    *moves his hands together as though they're trying to put two pieces of a puzzle together that just wont fit*

    The handwavium answer for everything:

    Magnets....

    or Probes...

    or Magnetic Probes...

    also see... Jumping the Shark


    You're an immortal clone pilot in a universe that features, among other things, FTL travel and instant communication across any distance. Try not to think too hard about it. Blink

    Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
    Krell Kroenen
    The Devil's Shadow
    #99 - 2013-05-09 13:06:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Krell Kroenen
    Octoven wrote:

    You CAN still use the list view after they remove it, you will just need probes out to do it and anoms and sigs will only show on the list if they are in scan range of a probe. He is talking about removing the anoms from the list view without probes out.



    Gee, would be swell if I had probes on all my ships but I don't. You went from stating that they aren't taking the list view away to now saying this. The fact of the matter is they are wanting to remove a data display feature that a number of people favor.
    Marcel Devereux
    Aideron Robotics
    Aideron Robotics.
    #100 - 2013-05-09 13:31:08 UTC
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Gilbaron wrote:
    Does the overlay change once I scanned stuff to 100 percent?

    Not in the version on SISI now. It's possible that feature may make it into Odyssey but we cannot promise that at this time.

    Gilbaron wrote:

    Do I still get a list?

    The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.


    Can we at least get the scan results added to the overview? This is a tool that users must already learn.