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[Corp Bookmarks] Feedback and Ideas

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Nalda Selene
Te'Rava Industries
#21 - 2011-11-02 18:43:19 UTC
Asayanami Dei wrote:


I think that what Geldorf Drakar said makes perfect sense
Quote:
make it so that corp bookmarks can only be added to when uncloaked. Such would prevent cloaky scouts from providing the rest of the fleet a warpin. I suppose it depends on how the mechanics will work... BM straight to corp BM's... BM to personal and then move to corp... etc.


It pretty much solves the problem from my point of view, you can either risk being seen and share the bookmarks, or utilize one of the tactics mentioned already, either way, it gives you a choice, I like it and im adding it to the first post.


It also makes sense in a "realism" sense. If you're operating cloaked, which implies you're trying to hide/not be seen, would you actually transmit something, which would give away your presence, if not your actual location?
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-11-02 18:46:15 UTC
Two step wrote:
Asayanami Dei wrote:
The devs responsible should swim in beer at fanfest. <3


Word on the street is that it is mostly CCP Tuxford to thank. Don't give him too much beer, or he will trip over the cord to TQ again though!

Tuxford is just full of win, isn't he? Blink

Yeah, with some of the "professional scouts" I know of in game, "instant" anything is OP!

(srsly - some scouts are just scary good!)

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Candente
Navy Veteran Club
#23 - 2011-11-02 18:52:30 UTC
Good news.

I think a two-fold system would be even more ideal: faster update of corporate bookmarks when the ship is uncloaked, while slow update to corp bookmarks when the ship is cloaked. Not only it will balance pvp, but also makes it easier to share bookmarks for non-pvp situations easily.
crondarin
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#24 - 2011-11-02 18:55:28 UTC
A few Points i have seen about Corp BM's

  • I Love them :) :) (to the point my bank manager is going to have words with me after Fanfest after the amount of beer i'm going to be buying the devs)
  • There Should be a delay (see above posters as to reasons why,"no easy gank method")
  • atm there not there when you right click in space (have to do it through people and places tab), CCP have stated they should be but may not be implemented yet.
  • You should be able to have sub folders in the corp BM (perhaps with corp roles having access to different ones)
  • make it when you creat a Bookmark have a check box to make for corp or personal use, but keep the option to copy them as well between both.


    • thats all i can think off atm i'll keep playing with them on sisi once i sort out my graphics problem on sisi (bug report raised for this)
    Nonnori Ikkala
    Love for You
    #25 - 2011-11-02 19:01:50 UTC
    As one of the TAC-makers of my corp, I approve! None of this namby-pamby of not having TACs off gates anymore for them.

    I like many of the suggestions above, and look forward to the results of further CCP iteration on the feature.
    Asayanami Dei
    Adhocracy Incorporated
    Adhocracy
    #26 - 2011-11-02 21:56:18 UTC
    Candente wrote:
    Good news.

    I think a two-fold system would be even more ideal: faster update of corporate bookmarks when the ship is uncloaked, while slow update to corp bookmarks when the ship is cloaked. Not only it will balance pvp, but also makes it easier to share bookmarks for non-pvp situations easily.

    I think that would be pushing it and it sounds hard to make, it's a good idea tho, but the 'no bookmark sharing while cloaked' idea is simple and works :)

    I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

    Youtube: /asayanami

    Twitter: @asayanami

    wormholefundamentals.com
    Abbadon Karis
    Angel Watch
    #27 - 2011-11-02 22:00:36 UTC
    +1 !

    Less time delay means faster pvp and in some cases maybe more pvp, that's not a bad option in my opinion. 2-5 min seems ok but 10 min might be to long to get the action even started. On the other hand it also might take a fleet 10min to form up before ready as well so my opinion is a bit split between yes and no on the 10min time delay.

    I can see the aspect of doing pve will get harder with little time delay, but pvp will get better, depends on which side your on.

    ' > Ego is the source of pain..
    Matuk Grymwal
    Collapsed Out
    Pandemic Legion
    #28 - 2011-11-02 23:42:00 UTC
    +1 Fantastic to finally see this.

    A delay seems reasonable to me for all the reasons discussed. Totally agree on the role as well. I don't like the idea of variable delays depending on cloakiness though. I'm more open to the idea of not being able to create corp bookmarks at all while cloaked however.
    Salpun
    Global Telstar Federation Offices
    Masters of Flying Objects
    #29 - 2011-11-03 03:09:26 UTC
    While we are working on BM code. BM need to have a time current feature so some BM auto delete. Corp BM will get very full very fast unless there is a easy way to delete them.

    I suggest some selection buttons be added to the bm naming popup. If you have the role there should be a corp bm check and 2 time checks, 24 hours, 72 hours. If a time is not selected. it will not auto delete. This will help keep the bm data base cleaner and will help out everyone.

    If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

    See you around the universe.
    ShadowandLight
    Trigger Happy Capsuleers
    #30 - 2011-11-03 04:12:17 UTC
    Efraya
    V0LTA
    WE FORM V0LTA
    #31 - 2011-11-03 09:23:44 UTC
    FINALLY!!!!!

    Alliance BM's too?

    [b][center]WSpace; Dead space.[/center] [center]Lady Spank for forum mod[/center][/b]
    CCP Tuxford
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #32 - 2011-11-03 09:26:41 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Tuxford
    Note that the version you have on SiSi is very raw. We've been working on it two programmers so we need to check things in so the other guy can work making us ship a pretty raw version of this. I'm currently working on a blog about this feature which should clear some things up.


    Asayanami Dei wrote:

  • There should be a new grantable role for the corp bookmarks manegment. It would make it easier for the directors to be able to handle a new role, rather then juggle arround an existing role to make it work.

  • It would be cool if you can set access rights for different BMs folders.

    • We decided on a very simple role restriction. Creating new corp roles is very difficult because of the way they are implemented. One day we're going to have to take a step back and do something about that but not today I guess Sad


    Asayanami Dei wrote:

  • supposedly it takes like 5-10(?) min to update, which is perfect, please do not change that (i guess it's a server thing anyways). Some people might rage about it, but instant-corp-wide-bookmarks is not ideal, some time-buffer is required for it not to be overpowered in my opinion.
  • OR make it so that corp bookmarks can only be added to when uncloaked. Such would prevent cloaky scouts from providing the rest of the fleet a warpin. I suppose it depends on how the mechanics will work... BM straight to corp BM's... BM to personal and then move to corp... etc.

    • I think I know what you're getting at. So basically a cloaked ship can create a bookmark near a fleet and the rest warp in there. I don't think it's that big of an issue as people can already warp to the cloaked ship anyway. Of course there could be something that I'm missing. The restriction is for server performance so having it instant isn't really up for debate anyway P

    Asayanami Dei wrote:

  • with that periodic updating, could we get a timestamp as to when the folder last updated? This is less important if it ends up being only a 2 minute delay, but if it's a longer delay it would be really nice to know how out-of-date the folder is.

    • Sounds cool. It shouldn't be too out of date though. Its currently 5 minutes

    Asayanami Dei wrote:

  • If at all possible, subfolders in the corp-bookmarks folder would be an awesome addition.

    • If you mean Corp Places -> My Folder -> My Bookmark then yes it's already coming
    If you mean Corp Places -> My Folder -> My Subfolder -> My Bookmark then no. At least not this iteration

    Asayanami Dei wrote:

  • Another idea would be to create a second tab under the Places tab (sub-tab) rather then a special folder, so you would have a Personal tab and a Corp tab under the places tab. I don't know how would that impact the ability of copying bookmarks there, since its impossible to drag&drop with that kind of setup. Perhaps a right click option like "send to Corp"?

    • It would make copying bookmarks very awkward. Once the new folder structure hits SiSi I hope you find this a lot more clear.

    https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates
    CCP Tuxford
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #33 - 2011-11-03 09:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Tuxford
    Asayanami Dei wrote:

  • The corp bookmark folder should be visible in the right-click menu in space, just like any other folder

    • they should show up there or at least they do for me.

    https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates
    Efraya
    V0LTA
    WE FORM V0LTA
    #34 - 2011-11-03 09:39:18 UTC
    CCP Tuxford best CCP.

    [b][center]WSpace; Dead space.[/center] [center]Lady Spank for forum mod[/center][/b]
    Circumstantial Evidence
    #35 - 2011-11-03 09:50:56 UTC
    Endorsing iteration on this product and / or service. Thank you!
    Potato IQ
    Doomheim
    #36 - 2011-11-03 10:27:18 UTC
    This delay method doesn’t make sense. Unclear how your getting a transmission corp wide when your cut-off from k-space. It is making things too easy and BM’s should be pulled into this and not pushed, much as I regret saying as the feature is very cool and very powerful

    The corp BM’s should be instant, but can only be made available in same or any other system travelled to beyond the originator BM time. Any corp member that travels through a BM’d system can pick it up and pass it along. Means you still need the scout/BM transfer pilot out and back element which is more realistic

    If the delay method kept, then fast location intel means you still deal with BM swapping to an extent. Instant pull system would improve this
    Geldorf Drakar
    Hedion University
    Amarr Empire
    #37 - 2011-11-03 12:33:33 UTC
    Quote:
    I think I know what you're getting at. So basically a cloaked ship can create a bookmark near a fleet and the rest warp in there. I don't think it's that big of an issue as people can already warp to the cloaked ship anyway. Of course there could be something that I'm missing. The restriction is for server performance so having it instant isn't really up for debate anyway


    The problem is that a cloaky scout could land say... 120km off a bunch of ships after having scanned down the site they are in, the cloaky scout can bookmark an object, like a jet can, wreck, or LCO, without having slowboat the 120km, then when the bookmarks propagate to the rest of the corp, they have an instant warpin without the scout having to have spent 10-20 min chasing the target ships around, getting into range, having to avoid things that could uncloak him, etc.


    120km @ 500ms = 4 min
    120km @ 250ms = 8 min

    Depending on your ship, if the corp bookmark propagation delay is too low, it becomes easier to bookmark something close to your target than it is to actually have to fly all that way, and risk having to chase a target around as it moves.

    That is why having a restriction on being unable to add to corp bookmarks while cloaked, or force a 10-20 min delay for corp bookmark propagation is necessary.
    Two step
    Aperture Harmonics
    #38 - 2011-11-03 12:38:23 UTC
    CCP Tuxford wrote:

    I think I know what you're getting at. So basically a cloaked ship can create a bookmark near a fleet and the rest warp in there. I don't think it's that big of an issue as people can already warp to the cloaked ship anyway. Of course there could be something that I'm missing. The restriction is for server performance so having it instant isn't really up for debate anyway P


    The issue is that if people are killing rats, a cloaked ship could make a corp bookmark to a wreck near the players, then a fleet could warp in on top of them.

    CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
    Nalda Selene
    Te'Rava Industries
    #39 - 2011-11-03 14:34:53 UTC
    Two step wrote:
    CCP Tuxford wrote:

    I think I know what you're getting at. So basically a cloaked ship can create a bookmark near a fleet and the rest warp in there. I don't think it's that big of an issue as people can already warp to the cloaked ship anyway. Of course there could be something that I'm missing. The restriction is for server performance so having it instant isn't really up for debate anyway P


    The issue is that if people are killing rats, a cloaked ship could make a corp bookmark to a wreck near the players, then a fleet could warp in on top of them.


    .. without the chance of getting decloaked by something and giving the game away, I would add.
    Asayanami Dei
    Adhocracy Incorporated
    Adhocracy
    #40 - 2011-11-03 16:01:12 UTC
    CCP Tuxford wrote:
    I'm currently working on a blog about this feature which should clear some things up.

    Yes, please!
    Also, thank you very much for getting this done, it was the number one request from many w-space coporation for years now.
    If there's anything we (the players) can do to speed up the development process, please let us know :)
    Much love Tux! <3

    I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

    Youtube: /asayanami

    Twitter: @asayanami

    wormholefundamentals.com