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! DEPRECATED -- Winter Expansion: Crucible SUMMARY (Updated 11/9)

First post
Author
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#141 - 2011-11-02 13:41:58 UTC
Kietay Ayari wrote:


have to agree here. the mentor looks like the big brother of the ugly duckling "Tormentor". never liked that one also. still the other designs rock.
thub
Doomheim
#142 - 2011-11-02 15:02:16 UTC
I like how everyone is saying that T3 BCs will be the new gank boat, when it is obvious they will cost more than current hulk gank boats and they are ignoring the number one change that really will increase ganking...... wait for it...... DESTROYER BUFF.

Yep you whining carebears have over looked the serious new threat to your precious little hulks. Instead of having blaster/drone vexors being top hulk gankers, the significant increase in damage from dessies will allow for a very cheap and just as powerful raw gank boat. Think of being able to gank a hulk for 2~5 mill with almost no skills (using small guns) in comparison to the current best vexor which requires much better medium gun skills, AND drone if you want to top it off.

Yes dessies will probably become the new top gank boat, and with such low skill reqs, i think we will see a lot more people creating noob accounts/alts to use for hulk slaughtering (the real test is can you create a hulk busting dessie char in 21 days :D)
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#143 - 2011-11-02 17:35:38 UTC
Im pertty sure I can out kill destroyers in my hulk.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#144 - 2011-11-02 18:02:29 UTC
anyways found this little gem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6sHSJ9l9vw&feature=related

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#145 - 2011-11-02 23:22:02 UTC
thub wrote:
I like how everyone is saying that T3 BCs will be the new gank boat, when it is obvious they will cost more than current hulk gank boats and they are ignoring the number one change that really will increase ganking...... wait for it...... DESTROYER BUFF.

Yep you whining carebears have over looked the serious new threat to your precious little hulks. Instead of having blaster/drone vexors being top hulk gankers, the significant increase in damage from dessies will allow for a very cheap and just as powerful raw gank boat. Think of being able to gank a hulk for 2~5 mill with almost no skills (using small guns) in comparison to the current best vexor which requires much better medium gun skills, AND drone if you want to top it off.

Yes dessies will probably become the new top gank boat, and with such low skill reqs, i think we will see a lot more people creating noob accounts/alts to use for hulk slaughtering (the real test is can you create a hulk busting dessie char in 21 days :D)

Not everyone is thinking of Hulks when they talk about suiciding. It's far from the most prevalent/profitable type of suiciding; when talking about the new 3TBCs being fantastic for suiciding, it's suiciding haulers and freighters on gates that we're thinking of. The advent of a new, cheaper ship capable of fitting 8 large artillery will make the Tornado disproportionately popular and it will probably remain as the most expensive of the four ships for a significant amount of time, as its demand will rise sharply the moment it costs less than the Apocalypse.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#146 - 2011-11-03 09:22:31 UTC
Preliminary stats for the new 3TBCs were changed today.

http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2011/winteriscoming2.txt

Comparing to last time we saw this database information:

Naga:
LOST hybrid tracking bonus
LOST torpedo explosion velocity bonus
LOST 1 low slot (from 4 to 3)
LOST 17 percent shield HP
LOST 15 percent armor HP
LOST 17 percent hull HP
LOST 45 CPU output
LOST 40 powergrid output
LOST agility
GAINED mass (now 7 percent heavier than the Drake)

Oracle:
LOST range and tracking bonuses to large lasers
GAINED damage (5 percent/lv) and capacitor (-10 percent/lv) bonuses to large lasers
LOST 15 percent shield HP
LOST 17 percent armor HP
LOST 17 percent hull HP
LOST 25 CPU output
LOST agility
GAINED mass (now 9 percent heavier than the Harbinger)

Talos:
LOST webbing strength bonus
GAINED large hybrid tracking bonus (7.5 percent/lv)
LOST all drones
LOST 17 percent shield HP
LOST 17 percent armor HP
LOST 17 percent hull HP
LOST 40 CPU output
LOST 50 powergrid output
GAINED max velocity
LOST agility
GAINED mass (now 9 percent heavier than the Myrmidon)

Tornado:
LOST 17 percent shield HP
LOST 20 percent armor HP
LOST 17 percent hull HP
LOST 30 CPU output
GAINED mass (now 13 percent heavier than the Hurricane)

Discuss.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

Real Poison
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#147 - 2011-11-03 10:51:22 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
From the looks of it, the Tornado will have 6 turrets -- probably with a rate of fire bonus, not a damage bonus -- so chances are it won't have super great alpha. A Brutix or autocannon Hurricane will probably still be able to do more damage in a single gank.


I officially eat my words. Also, these new ships are awesome.


they could still go for an inverse marauder concept.

half damage / double rate of fire -> same dps half the alpha

to make sure they're not becoming the new ganksters FOTM
Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#148 - 2011-11-03 10:56:06 UTC
Real Poison wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
From the looks of it, the Tornado will have 6 turrets -- probably with a rate of fire bonus, not a damage bonus -- so chances are it won't have super great alpha. A Brutix or autocannon Hurricane will probably still be able to do more damage in a single gank.


I officially eat my words. Also, these new ships are awesome.


they could still go for an inverse marauder concept.

half damage / double rate of fire -> same dps half the alpha

to make sure they're not becoming the new ganksters FOTM

That would be a horrible nerf, as it would require an utterly MIND-BOGGLING amount of ammunition. If you think loading up ammunition for PVP on an 8-gun ship costs money NOW, just imagine...

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

pussnheels
Viziam
#149 - 2011-11-03 12:12:13 UTC
Tore Smith wrote:
Kietay Ayari wrote:


have to agree here. the mentor looks like the big brother of the ugly duckling "Tormentor". never liked that one also. still the other designs rock.

The ministry of internal order and the Inquisition wants a word with both of you

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#150 - 2011-11-03 12:45:08 UTC
pussnheels wrote:

The ministry of internal order and the Inquisition wants a word with both of you

Yeah, I think the design for the Oracle is one of the best submissions there was for the contest.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#151 - 2011-11-03 12:54:17 UTC
I really do hope ccp doesn't give the oracle that ****** non bonus of 10% less cap use
since everyone will use a cap booster on that anyway in pvp that bonus is just gimping the ship badly
and why the hell are they removing even more hp from them they already are close to being useless with their cruiser hp

PS: give them their own class

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

Nalanthii
#152 - 2011-11-03 13:23:09 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Preliminary stats for the new 3TBCs were changed today.

http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2011/winteriscoming2.txt

...

Discuss.


WTC... if you look at that file and compare the nerfed agility values on hybrid ships to Tranq, they're not just losing a potential agility buff, they're being nerfed... all of them.

I get the theory of blaster boats being fast enough to get in range to pew pew, but not very agile... but the speed they've been given is really not enough to constitute this kind of nerf.

...

Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2011-11-03 13:25:37 UTC
nalanthii wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Preliminary stats for the new 3TBCs were changed today.

http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2011/winteriscoming2.txt

...

Discuss.


WTC... if you look at that file and compare the nerfed agility values on hybrid ships to Tranq, they're not just losing a potential agility buff, they're being nerfed... all of them.

I get the theory of blaster boats being fast enough to get in range to pew pew, but not very agile... but the speed they've been given is really not enough to constitute this kind of nerf.


Agility = inertia modifier, and lower = better.
so they're BUFFING the ships, not nerfing them.
Nalanthii
#154 - 2011-11-03 13:28:40 UTC
Max Von Sydow wrote:
nalanthii wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Preliminary stats for the new 3TBCs were changed today.

http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2011/winteriscoming2.txt

...

Discuss.


WTC... if you look at that file and compare the nerfed agility values on hybrid ships to Tranq, they're not just losing a potential agility buff, they're being nerfed... all of them.

I get the theory of blaster boats being fast enough to get in range to pew pew, but not very agile... but the speed they've been given is really not enough to constitute this kind of nerf.


Agility = inertia modifier, and lower = better.
so they're BUFFING the ships, not nerfing them.


I don't buy that. So you're saying the Atron with a 2.92 inertia modifier is less agile than the Megathron with 0.128 inertia... cause lower is better?

...

Nalanthii
#155 - 2011-11-03 13:31:04 UTC
nalanthii wrote:
Max Von Sydow wrote:
nalanthii wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Preliminary stats for the new 3TBCs were changed today.

http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2011/winteriscoming2.txt

...

Discuss.


WTC... if you look at that file and compare the nerfed agility values on hybrid ships to Tranq, they're not just losing a potential agility buff, they're being nerfed... all of them.

I get the theory of blaster boats being fast enough to get in range to pew pew, but not very agile... but the speed they've been given is really not enough to constitute this kind of nerf.


Agility = inertia modifier, and lower = better.
so they're BUFFING the ships, not nerfing them.


I don't buy that. So you're saying the Atron with a 2.92 inertia modifier is less agile than the Megathron with 0.128 inertia... cause lower is better?


yeah... now i'm confused and possibly dumb. I just checked and as a quick example the ishkur has a higher inertia modifier compared to the ranis which means the numbers don't work like i think...

does the number have to be compared to the mass or something to get the real picture?

...

Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#156 - 2011-11-03 13:32:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Von Sydow
nalanthii wrote:
Max Von Sydow wrote:
nalanthii wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Preliminary stats for the new 3TBCs were changed today.

http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2011/winteriscoming2.txt

...

Discuss.


WTC... if you look at that file and compare the nerfed agility values on hybrid ships to Tranq, they're not just losing a potential agility buff, they're being nerfed... all of them.

I get the theory of blaster boats being fast enough to get in range to pew pew, but not very agile... but the speed they've been given is really not enough to constitute this kind of nerf.


Agility = inertia modifier, and lower = better.
so they're BUFFING the ships, not nerfing them.


I don't buy that. So you're saying the Atron with a 2.92 inertia modifier is less agile than the Megathron with 0.128 inertia... cause lower is better?




it's inertia modifier and ship mass that determines your agility. if a megathron had the inertia modifier of an atron it would take minuted for it to warp. and if the atron had the inertia of the mega it would more or less instawarp.
Nalanthii
#157 - 2011-11-03 13:35:08 UTC
Max Von Sydow wrote:

it's inertia modifier and ship mass that determines your agility. if a megathron had the inertia modifier of an atron it would take minuted for it to warp. and if the atron had the inertia of the mega it would more or less instawarp.


Thanks for clearing that up.


...

Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#158 - 2011-11-03 13:37:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsubutai
nalanthii wrote:
I don't buy that. So you're saying the Atron with a 2.92 inertia modifier is less agile than the Megathron with 0.128 inertia... cause lower is better?

"Agility" is dependent on the product of the inertia modifier and the ship's mass; the smaller the product, the higher the agility.

The Atron's "agility" is 2.92*1164000 = 3398880
The Mega's "agility" is 0.128*98400000 = 12595200

The Atron is slightly less than 4 times as agile as the Mega because while it has a bigger inertia modifier, it also has a much much lower mass.
Nalanthii
#159 - 2011-11-03 13:47:35 UTC
Tsubutai wrote:
nalanthii wrote:
I don't buy that. So you're saying the Atron with a 2.92 inertia modifier is less agile than the Megathron with 0.128 inertia... cause lower is better?

"Agility" is dependent on the product of the inertia modifier and the ship's mass; the smaller the product, the higher the agility.

The Atron's "agility" is 2.92*1164000 = 3398880
The Mega's "agility" is 0.128*98400000 = 12595200

The Atron is slightly less than 4 times as agile as the Mega because while it has a bigger inertia modifier, it also has a much much lower mass.


Just keep rubbing in my ignorance tsubu... thanks.

...

Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#160 - 2011-11-03 14:05:09 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Preliminary stats for the new 3TBCs were changed today.

http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2011/winteriscoming2.txt

Comparing to last time we saw this database information:

Naga:
LOST hybrid tracking bonus
LOST torpedo explosion velocity bonus
LOST 1 low slot (from 4 to 3)
LOST 17 percent shield HP
LOST 15 percent armor HP
LOST 17 percent hull HP
LOST 45 CPU output
LOST 40 powergrid output
LOST agility
GAINED mass (now 7 percent heavier than the Drake)

Oracle:
LOST range and tracking bonuses to large lasers
GAINED damage (5 percent/lv) and capacitor (-10 percent/lv) bonuses to large lasers
LOST 15 percent shield HP
LOST 17 percent armor HP
LOST 17 percent hull HP
LOST 25 CPU output
LOST agility
GAINED mass (now 9 percent heavier than the Harbinger)

Talos:
LOST webbing strength bonus
GAINED large hybrid tracking bonus (7.5 percent/lv)
LOST all drones
LOST 17 percent shield HP
LOST 17 percent armor HP
LOST 17 percent hull HP
LOST 40 CPU output
LOST 50 powergrid output
GAINED max velocity
LOST agility
GAINED mass (now 9 percent heavier than the Myrmidon)

Tornado:
LOST 17 percent shield HP
LOST 20 percent armor HP
LOST 17 percent hull HP
LOST 30 CPU output
GAINED mass (now 13 percent heavier than the Hurricane)

Discuss.


...so the naga will be useless. or am i missing something?