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Naglafars in C5s?

Author
Winmatar Citizen 000001
League of Extraordinary Equines
#1 - 2013-05-09 01:41:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Winmatar Citizen 000001
Was looking into a good dread fit for C5s and since the naglafar buff I figured I'd throw something together.

[Naglfar, Naglfar fit]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Centum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Capital Inefficient Armor Repair Unit

Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
Large Capacitor Battery II or Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II

quad autocannons x3
Siege Module II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

So I have ZERO experience in C5s and I'm getting as many opinions as possible about how they work. Is this the general setup?

Do capacitor batterys work on dreads against sleepers? Is 12.5% resistance to neuting worth more then a third sebo? Do I need better EANMs? or Duel reps?

inb4 dreads are for pvp
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#2 - 2013-05-09 01:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Unless your running in a WH system with effects that might make a difference I generally tend to avoid CCC rigs on a dread. I'd usually be looking at tri-mark/extender or memcell rigs.

Have to be honest I have no experience of using XL artillery against sleepers but everything I've ever experienced is suggesting to me thats a (very) bad idea.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-05-09 02:28:24 UTC
pro tip: naglfar is a shield ship

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Matuk Grymwal
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#4 - 2013-05-09 03:04:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Matuk Grymwal
I've never used shield dreads for PVE, but that fit is fairly similar to how many people fit an armor moros for PVE, so I reckon your fit would actually work okay. I'd be interested to hear a comparison for how the shield variant fairs in PVE however.

So if you do want to try that fit I wouldn't bother with the battery or a third sebo. Depending on how many dreads you have in the site you don't really many sebos - learning how to properly stagger your locking reduces your need for sebos. I'd start with one sebo and then throw on a second if you find the sleepers are dying too fast for you to lock them up (generally only an issue when you have 3 or more dreads). So for the mids you would be freeing up, I'd be using cap rechargers or target painters. I'd have both in my cargo and swap between them depending on whether or not I was getting primaried. Having painters on your dreads also allows you to swap the painters on the loki for webs.

You don't need dual reps for PVE. Those eanms are fine, better than what I use TBH (imperial navies). Just make sure you have a few hardeners (passive and active) of each type and a DC in cargo to swap to if needed when you're drawing a lot of sustained aggro. Similarly have spare cap rechargers for your mids.

Oh yeah, as Rroff states don't use arty, use AC, i.e. 2500's.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-05-09 04:16:27 UTC
I'd fit it like this for PVE:

Quote:
[Naglfar, PVE]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Capital Neutron Saturation Injector I
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script

Siege Module II
6x2500mm Heavy Gallium Repeating Cannon, EMP XL
6x2500mm Heavy Gallium Repeating Cannon, EMP XL

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I


the capacitor on the nag is beyond awful, but it tanks more than a moros so should be ok *shrug*

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

patater
Potato Death Legion
#6 - 2013-05-09 04:19:59 UTC
I'm 5 days from one of these to sit in. about 28 to fly or so
Would it really be worth it to train for a moros? Just got the minni T2's done and branching gallente now.

I really wish life would end so i could have more time for eve.

Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#7 - 2013-05-09 05:03:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Joan Greywind
A thing most people forget is that tracking plays a pretty big role in these sites, which (to my knowledge) the moros does best. Also even paper dps the moros still does the most even after the buff (remember not to use anti matter though).

So the moros should still be the best dread for escalations. And on another note shield tanking sux for capital escalations (bad lokis and no archons)
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-05-09 05:07:57 UTC
patater wrote:
I'm 5 days from one of these to sit in. about 28 to fly or so
Would it really be worth it to train for a moros? Just got the minni T2's done and branching gallente now.

yeah moros is currently the best dread hands down and the nag changes arent gonna change that.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#9 - 2013-05-09 06:05:41 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:


the capacitor on the nag is beyond awful, but it tanks more than a moros so should be ok *shrug*



Ummmmm... I show 8 minutes+ cap on my nag vs 6minutes+ on the moros.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-05-09 06:56:32 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:

the capacitor on the nag is beyond awful, but it tanks more than a moros so should be ok *shrug*

Ummmmm... I show 8 minutes+ cap on my nag vs 6minutes+ on the moros.

then youre fitting at least one of them wierd.
shield nag fit (one i posted above) has 4m25s cap, armour moros with guns and single rep, mem cells, no cap mods has 7m50s.
like i said the tank is 7.4k odd on the nag vs 5.5k odd on the moros to it balances out somewhat over time, you just need to manage it more.
nag also has ~10% less cap amount which makes it weaker against neuts.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Matuk Grymwal
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2013-05-10 01:51:13 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
patater wrote:
I'm 5 days from one of these to sit in. about 28 to fly or so
Would it really be worth it to train for a moros? Just got the minni T2's done and branching gallente now.

yeah moros is currently the best dread hands down and the nag changes arent gonna change that.

Yeah especially if you wait for the upcoming skill changes. I can fly rev on this toon, and can sit in the hull of a nag (can't use the guns). I was going to train nag up properly, but I'm just waiting for the patch to drop so I don't need Gall BS 5 and will train moros next. I'll probably still train nag, but I'll get the moros to 5 first.

Certainly the nag is pretty good now. Without having seen it in action yet, I reckon it is now 2nd best after the moros as it has better tracking than the rev, cap-less guns and slightly better ammo consumption than the moros.
Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-05-10 02:54:56 UTC

Be a special snowflake.

Use a Phoenix and one-shot Sleepers.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-05-10 03:02:18 UTC
Incindir Mauser wrote:

Be a special snowflake.
Use a Phoenix and one-shot Sleepers.

you and how many of your target paining friends?

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-05-10 05:25:32 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Incindir Mauser wrote:

Be a special snowflake.
Use a Phoenix and one-shot Sleepers.

you and how many of your target paining friends?


All of them.

They're special snowflakes, too!
Gary Bell
Therapy.
The Initiative.
#15 - 2013-05-10 12:14:19 UTC
TBH.. Moros is good.. But after the changes the ability to warp in at 120 kms and wtf bbq other caps in your home hole will make Nag fun as hell.. SO meh it can kinda go both ways.. Most c5s have to many caps as is so your ability to do meh dps wont be a big deal.. but your ability to group with 5 friends and alpha triage off the field will be alot more useful in home pvp situations..
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-05-10 13:08:18 UTC
Gary Bell wrote:
TBH.. Moros is good.. But after the changes the ability to warp in at 120 kms and wtf bbq other caps in your home hole will make Nag fun as hell.. SO meh it can kinda go both ways.. Most c5s have to many caps as is so your ability to do meh dps wont be a big deal.. but your ability to group with 5 friends and alpha triage off the field will be alot more useful in home pvp situations..

and you can't do this on a moros why?

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-05-10 13:16:37 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Gary Bell wrote:
TBH.. Moros is good.. But after the changes the ability to warp in at 120 kms and wtf bbq other caps in your home hole will make Nag fun as hell.. SO meh it can kinda go both ways.. Most c5s have to many caps as is so your ability to do meh dps wont be a big deal.. but your ability to group with 5 friends and alpha triage off the field will be alot more useful in home pvp situations..

and you can't do this on a moros why?


Are you asking why you can't alpha a carrier at 120km in a Moros?


Really? You're asking that?

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-05-10 17:58:50 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Gary Bell wrote:
TBH.. Moros is good.. But after the changes the ability to warp in at 120 kms and wtf bbq other caps in your home hole will make Nag fun as hell.. SO meh it can kinda go both ways.. Most c5s have to many caps as is so your ability to do meh dps wont be a big deal.. but your ability to group with 5 friends and alpha triage off the field will be alot more useful in home pvp situations..

and you can't do this on a moros why?


Are you asking why you can't alpha a carrier at 120km in a Moros?


Really? You're asking that?



Not to quibble too much:

Moros, blasters, 81.5km+36km (Tungsten) = 6450 DPS, 28313 Volley 4.39s cycle time (no implants calculated). # of times fires to Naglfar Artillery in same duration: 3. "volley" damage: 84939.

Naglfar, autocannons, 48.5km+69.1km (Titanium Sabot) = 7086 DPS (napkin math), 27646.5 Volley (napkin math) 3.9s cycle time (no implants calculated). # of times fires to Naglfar Artillery in same duration: 3 (possibly 4 with 5% implant). "volley" damage: 82939.5-110,584

Naglfar artillery, 69km+168km (Republic Fleet EMP XL) = 7164 DPS (napkin math), 104,832 volley (napkin math), 14.6s cycle time (no implants calculated).

Looking at the numbers, while the Naglfar Artillery does the heaviest DPS and volley at range, the other two are still fairly effective considering they are close-range weapon systems using sub-optimal ammo. Not to mention if the Moros can switch to Antimatter it's DPS increases by about 8k.

Please note as well that I'm using Republic Fleet EMP XL based on the notion that it's actually available out there somewhere to fire; having looked at eve-central I'm fairly confident you will be forced to use Arch Angel EMP XL, which is a slight decrease in DPS/Volley Damage.

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.

Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-05-10 18:41:27 UTC
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Gary Bell wrote:
TBH.. Moros is good.. But after the changes the ability to warp in at 120 kms and wtf bbq other caps in your home hole will make Nag fun as hell.. SO meh it can kinda go both ways.. Most c5s have to many caps as is so your ability to do meh dps wont be a big deal.. but your ability to group with 5 friends and alpha triage off the field will be alot more useful in home pvp situations..

and you can't do this on a moros why?


Are you asking why you can't alpha a carrier at 120km in a Moros?


Really? You're asking that?



Not to quibble too much:

Moros, blasters, 81.5km+36km (Tungsten) = 6450 DPS, 28313 Volley 4.39s cycle time (no implants calculated). # of times fires to Naglfar Artillery in same duration: 3. "volley" damage: 84939.

Naglfar, autocannons, 48.5km+69.1km (Titanium Sabot) = 7086 DPS (napkin math), 27646.5 Volley (napkin math) 3.9s cycle time (no implants calculated). # of times fires to Naglfar Artillery in same duration: 3 (possibly 4 with 5% implant). "volley" damage: 82939.5-110,584

Naglfar artillery, 69km+168km (Republic Fleet EMP XL) = 7164 DPS (napkin math), 104,832 volley (napkin math), 14.6s cycle time (no implants calculated).

Looking at the numbers, while the Naglfar Artillery does the heaviest DPS and volley at range, the other two are still fairly effective considering they are close-range weapon systems using sub-optimal ammo. Not to mention if the Moros can switch to Antimatter it's DPS increases by about 8k.

Please note as well that I'm using Republic Fleet EMP XL based on the notion that it's actually available out there somewhere to fire; having looked at eve-central I'm fairly confident you will be forced to use Arch Angel EMP XL, which is a slight decrease in DPS/Volley Damage.

Svo.


God I hate EFT warriors. Go fly the ship and tell me you'll alpha that carrier with tungsten.


I'll wait.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#20 - 2013-05-10 19:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
I think Jack's point wasn't about the alphaing but that if you've got 5 odd dreads in your home wormhole your gonna wtfbbq most carriers pretty quickly anyway so in that regard its not really a game changer.

Aside from the initial engagement range your still stuck in siege for 5 minutes whether its 0km or 120km thats not gonna be a huge game changer either tho I can imagine theres going to be some lols on voice comms the first time someone alphas down a cap with arty nags.
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