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Dev Blog: WantToTrade: Tags for Security Status

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Mra Rednu
Oyonata Gate Defence Force.
#161 - 2013-05-06 09:30:36 UTC
Taking away part of the Risk/Reward part of the darker trades, not a good change.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2013-05-06 12:57:05 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Excellent change. It's a great buff to lowsec belt pvp.
This what I like about this addition. A nice enhancement to lowsec.

Meditril wrote:
...By the way... can you please implement this mechanics also for faction standings? It would be great to be able to fix your faction standings also by using a similar way.
This is what I don't like about this addition. If CSC really thought trading tags for standings was a good idea... where is the rest of this project? If I want standing with an NPC corp why do I have to grind that?

Overall, interesting. I really want to see how this plays out.
Gunner
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#163 - 2013-05-06 16:26:38 UTC
And yet another fine example of CCP stearing the game into more ship kills, preferably in high sec to maximize damage done ISK wise.

More ISK destroyed, more time invested in the game destroyed, more time needed to recover the losses, more rl $ for CCP.

Bah.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#164 - 2013-05-06 18:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
To CCP,

This 'Tag for Security' is nothing more than a 'Get out of jail' card. Basically you're removing 'Consequences of Choices' and 'Risk verses Reward', etc. and replacing it with a P2W option.

Now for this bullsh*t about resetting players Security Status to 0.00. If you're talking about players with negative security status than fine. I don't have a problem with that since it's basically like a reprieve from the Governor.

However, I as well as other upstanding law abiding citizens of Eve have spent a lot of time to get a high security status. If that is knocked back to 0.00 then you're basically hitting us with a nerf bat as well as turning all our time spent gaining that status into a huge waste of time.

Over the past few years Eve Online has been slowly turning into Griefer Online where Criminals are amply rewarded and Law Abiding Citizens are severely penalized. Hopefully CCP will soon see the error of their ways but I'm afraid by then the proverbial "Camel's Back" will already be broken well beyond repair.

I'm sure there's a lot of people who are getting very disinterested with this game due to it's direction over the past few years. I know I'm just one of many players who use to spend hours on a daily basis logged into the game. Over the past few years game interest has steadily been lost and now only spend a few hours a week in-game. In fact some cases only spend a few hours a month in-game. This will eventually result in a 'Quit'..

Enough with the hype and endless PR crap about the CSM. Most players don't give a rats arse what the CSM members say or think. The CSM doesn't represent the majority of the player base and they definitely don't represent me.

Quite honestly to be blunt, I'm sick and tired of all this bullsh*t. This game is supposed to provide a fun pleasurable exhilarating time when logged in, not some fear ridden apprehensive uncomfortable feeling. Nor should the reading of Dev Blogs / Expansion Proposals / Patch Notes create feelings of anger, distrust and suspicions of backroom dealings that only benefit a select few.

I think I'll stop now before I break any 'Rules'.



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#165 - 2013-05-06 23:48:13 UTC
Consequences? We don't need no stinkin' consequences.

No good deed goes unpunished
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#166 - 2013-05-06 23:51:35 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
However, I as well as other upstanding law abiding citizens of Eve have spent a lot of time to get a high security status. If that is knocked back to 0.00 then you're basically hitting us with a nerf bat as well as turning all our time spent gaining that status into a huge waste of time.

you're not losing your high sec status dude
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2013-05-07 00:18:23 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
To CCP,

This 'Tag for Security' is nothing more than a 'Get out of jail' card. Basically you're removing 'Consequences of Choices' and 'Risk verses Reward', etc. and replacing it with a P2W option.

Now for this bullsh*t about resetting players Security Status to 0.00. If you're talking about players with negative security status than fine. I don't have a problem with that since it's basically like a reprieve from the Governor.

However, I as well as other upstanding law abiding citizens of Eve have spent a lot of time to get a high security status. If that is knocked back to 0.00 then you're basically hitting us with a nerf bat as well as turning all our time spent gaining that status into a huge waste of time.

Over the past few years Eve Online has been slowly turning into Griefer Online where Criminals are amply rewarded and Law Abiding Citizens are severely penalized. Hopefully CCP will soon see the error of their ways but I'm afraid by then the proverbial "Camel's Back" will already be broken well beyond repair.

I'm sure there's a lot of people who are getting very disinterested with this game due to it's direction over the past few years. I know I'm just one of many players who use to spend hours on a daily basis logged into the game. Over the past few years game interest has steadily been lost and now only spend a few hours a week in-game. In fact some cases only spend a few hours a month in-game. This will eventually result in a 'Quit'..

Enough with the hype and endless PR crap about the CSM. Most players don't give a rats arse what the CSM members say or think. The CSM doesn't represent the majority of the player base and they definitely don't represent me.

Quite honestly to be blunt, I'm sick and tired of all this bullsh*t. This game is supposed to provide a fun pleasurable exhilarating time when logged in, not some fear ridden apprehensive uncomfortable feeling. Nor should the reading of Dev Blogs / Expansion Proposals / Patch Notes create feelings of anger, distrust and suspicions of backroom dealings that only benefit a select few.

I think I'll stop now before I break any 'Rules'.



DMC


This.

I wonder how many carebears Eve has lost or is about to lose due to the way the 'independent' csm and ccp have been managing the game. If only they had done a better job instead of 50k players logging in they could easily have 100k. Game foundation is fine, the implementation has gone awry to put it nicely.
Axyl Gaterau
Rising Phoenix Enterprises LLC
#168 - 2013-05-08 03:28:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Axyl Gaterau
Gankers/Pirates cost Industry and miners BILLIONS every single day. They are griefers and criminals and they SHOULD have to work their butts-off to earn the right to be in HS again after they destroy their sec status and cost other players billions ... that is their penance. It isn't like someone MADE them do the things they do, they made the choice and they should have to pay the price! So what if the poor, poor ganker leaves EVE because it is too hard to raise his sec status ... good riddance! He/she should have thought about that before they went on their killing-spree!

Gankers lose a specific number of sec status point for each Hulk, Retriever or other industrial ship they attack and kill. I do not know exactly how many they lose for each offense but let's say for argument sake that it is .2 - .4. INSTEAD of letting them use tags for raising sec status, make them BUY their sec status back ... "pay a fine" if you will. Each Hulk they destroy costs the miner upwards of 255 million. So, they should pay a fine equivalent to the amount of isk they cost the person they attacked. Hit them where it hurts ... their wallet! Why not? They hit OURS!

I think this "Tags for sec status" is a huge mistake and a very bad decision. Instead of giving gankers a "free-pass" to be even MORE destructive and disruptive than they already are, why not give exhumers another mid and low slot so miners can defend themselves better? Better yet, make it so miners can "hire" a Concord escort for a reasonable price when they mine who will protect them from gankers? CCP, you have made life easy enough as it is for gankers and pirates. Why not help out the mining and industrial community for a change? Things are out of balance as it is and this "tags for sec status" idea is only going to create more imbalance.
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#169 - 2013-05-08 05:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sugar Kyle
Axyl Gaterau wrote:
Gankers/Pirates cost Industry and miners BILLIONS every single day. They are griefers and criminals and they SHOULD have to work their butts-off to earn the right to be in HS again after they destroy their sec status and cost other players billions ... that is their penance. It isn't like someone MADE them do the things they do, they made the choice and they should have to pay the price! So what if the poor, poor ganker leaves EVE because it is too hard to raise his sec status ... good riddance! He/she should have thought about that before they went on their killing-spree!

Gankers lose a specific number of sec status point for each Hulk, Retriever or other industrial ship they attack and kill. I do not know exactly how many they lose for each offense but let's say for argument sake that it is .2 - .4. INSTEAD of letting them use tags for raising sec status, make them BUY their sec status back ... "pay a fine" if you will. Each Hulk they destroy costs the miner upwards of 255 million. So, they should pay a fine equivalent to the amount of isk they cost the person they attacked. Hit them where it hurts ... their wallet! Why not? They hit OURS!

I think this "Tags for sec status" is a huge mistake and a very bad decision. Instead of giving gankers a "free-pass" to be even MORE destructive and disruptive than they already are, why not give exhumers another mid and low slot so miners can defend themselves better? Better yet, make it so miners can "hire" a Concord escort for a reasonable price when they mine who will protect them from gankers? CCP, you have made life easy enough as it is for gankers and pirates. Why not help out the mining and industrial community for a change? Things are out of balance as it is and this "tags for sec status" idea is only going to create more imbalance.


There is so much anger here.

However, you do realize that high sec gankers are often rather comfortable at -10 and function just fine that way? They will probably be one of the smaller groups interested in tags 4 sec.

This is not just about the gankers and pirates. People who dabble in low sec roaming and PvP can not easily raise hteir sec status. Eve Uni had (has?) a rule where you have to stay 0.0 or higher. Fighting in low sec doesn't only mean fighting flashy red outlaws but plenty of people keep their sec status up to receive gategun assistance.

Focusing on gankers eliminates massive swaths of the game that can benefit from being able to tip their security status back up quickly for engaging in PvP. The people you worry about the most are the people who care about it the least.

People are very, very attached to their security status. Some are quite traumatized by dropping into the negatives. People who will be able to do their weekend roaming and go back to their incursions and mission running later.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#170 - 2013-05-08 05:50:52 UTC
Axyl Gaterau wrote:
Gankers/Pirates cost Industry and miners BILLIONS every single day. They are griefers and criminals and they SHOULD have to work their butts-off to earn the right to be in HS again after they destroy their sec status and cost other players billions ... that is their penance. It isn't like someone MADE them do the things they do, they made the choice and they should have to pay the price! So what if the poor, poor ganker leaves EVE because it is too hard to raise his sec status ... good riddance! He/she should have thought about that before they went on their killing-spree!

Gankers lose a specific number of sec status point for each Hulk, Retriever or other industrial ship they attack and kill. I do not know exactly how many they lose for each offense but let's say for argument sake that it is .2 - .4. INSTEAD of letting them use tags for raising sec status, make them BUY their sec status back ... "pay a fine" if you will. Each Hulk they destroy costs the miner upwards of 255 million. So, they should pay a fine equivalent to the amount of isk they cost the person they attacked. Hit them where it hurts ... their wallet! Why not? They hit OURS!

I think this "Tags for sec status" is a huge mistake and a very bad decision. Instead of giving gankers a "free-pass" to be even MORE destructive and disruptive than they already are, why not give exhumers another mid and low slot so miners can defend themselves better? Better yet, make it so miners can "hire" a Concord escort for a reasonable price when they mine who will protect them from gankers? CCP, you have made life easy enough as it is for gankers and pirates. Why not help out the mining and industrial community for a change? Things are out of balance as it is and this "tags for sec status" idea is only going to create more imbalance.


I agree with this one. If you choose to play the game as a "criminal" then you should be permanently labeled as one and no tag or anything else should allow you to chance that. It's your choise to those things and after this insanely stupid update the choice of blowing someone up in highsec looses the last consecuense that there realy is. People already know how to make ganging profitable in empire and after this they can do all day long when the tags prices drop from the start.

I realy don't see anything good coming out from this one.

I a way I do understand ccp but this isn't the right aproach to populate lowsuckspace. This will just cause mayhem in empire.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Emily Jean McKenna
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#171 - 2013-05-08 06:38:18 UTC
I think its a bunch of garbage that doesnt really mean anything anyway.

Oh boy, now I can turn in tags to raise my sec status faster... Oh wait, you are nerfing my ability to raise my sec status faster...

Just a distraction while they kill my favorite battleships with the tiericide crap.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#172 - 2013-05-08 13:01:35 UTC
Gunner wrote:
And yet another fine example of CCP stearing the game into more ship kills, preferably in high sec to maximize damage done ISK wise.

More ISK destroyed, more time invested in the game destroyed, more time needed to recover the losses, more rl $ for CCP.

Bah.



That... that all sounds pretty good to me.

I'll definitely be encouraging CCP to make more changes to drive the effects you list. In fact we have already started.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#173 - 2013-05-08 13:03:24 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:


I agree with this one. If you choose to play the game as a "criminal" then you should be permanently labeled as one and no tag or anything else should allow you to chance that...


In real life, people can pay to become talkshow hosts, congressmen or members of parliament to exculpate their previous crimes. Until EVE allows this option, tags are a workable alternative mechanic.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Axyl Gaterau
Rising Phoenix Enterprises LLC
#174 - 2013-05-08 17:43:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Axyl Gaterau
Sugar Kyle wrote:
Axyl Gaterau wrote:
Gankers/Pirates cost Industry and miners BILLIONS every single day. They are griefers and criminals and they SHOULD have to work their butts-off to earn the right to be in HS again after they destroy their sec status and cost other players billions ... that is their penance. It isn't like someone MADE them do the things they do, they made the choice and they should have to pay the price! So what if the poor, poor ganker leaves EVE because it is too hard to raise his sec status ... good riddance! He/she should have thought about that before they went on their killing-spree!

Gankers lose a specific number of sec status point for each Hulk, Retriever or other industrial ship they attack and kill. I do not know exactly how many they lose for each offense but let's say for argument sake that it is .2 - .4. INSTEAD of letting them use tags for raising sec status, make them BUY their sec status back ... "pay a fine" if you will. Each Hulk they destroy costs the miner upwards of 255 million. So, they should pay a fine equivalent to the amount of isk they cost the person they attacked. Hit them where it hurts ... their wallet! Why not? They hit OURS!

I think this "Tags for sec status" is a huge mistake and a very bad decision. Instead of giving gankers a "free-pass" to be even MORE destructive and disruptive than they already are, why not give exhumers another mid and low slot so miners can defend themselves better? Better yet, make it so miners can "hire" a Concord escort for a reasonable price when they mine who will protect them from gankers? CCP, you have made life easy enough as it is for gankers and pirates. Why not help out the mining and industrial community for a change? Things are out of balance as it is and this "tags for sec status" idea is only going to create more imbalance.


There is so much anger here.

However, you do realize that high sec gankers are often rather comfortable at -10 and function just fine that way? They will probably be one of the smaller groups interested in tags 4 sec.

This is not just about the gankers and pirates. People who dabble in low sec roaming and PvP can not easily raise hteir sec status. Eve Uni had (has?) a rule where you have to stay 0.0 or higher. Fighting in low sec doesn't only mean fighting flashy red outlaws but plenty of people keep their sec status up to receive gategun assistance.

Focusing on gankers eliminates massive swaths of the game that can benefit from being able to tip their security status back up quickly for engaging in PvP. The people you worry about the most are the people who care about it the least.

People are very, very attached to their security status. Some are quite traumatized by dropping into the negatives. People who will be able to do their weekend roaming and go back to their incursions and mission running later.


I am one of those players who likes to dabble in null and lowsec (on my combat alt) ... and i still disagree with the implementation of this update. Yeah, my sec rating fluctuates ... big deal. a few days of mission-running fixes that just fine. Also, there are always Incursions to run as well. No, this update is FOR gankers and pirates and sugar-coating or veiling that fact doesn't change anything. IF it so important to them, let them BUY their sec status back just like WE have to buy new ships when they gank us.
Gunner
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#175 - 2013-05-08 18:33:16 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Gunner wrote:
And yet another fine example of CCP stearing the game into more ship kills, preferably in high sec to maximize damage done ISK wise.

More ISK destroyed, more time invested in the game destroyed, more time needed to recover the losses, more rl $ for CCP.

Bah.



That... that all sounds pretty good to me.

I'll definitely be encouraging CCP to make more changes to drive the effects you list. In fact we have already started.


You do realize the number of eve players that DIDN'T vote for you, now do you?

Eve should be fun for all sorts of players, not only the quick fix, fast game gankers that invest **** all in the game, and will leave the minute another game gives them a quicker fix and faster game.

In fact your CSM tag means nothing.
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#176 - 2013-05-08 21:17:13 UTC
Gunner wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

That... that all sounds pretty good to me.

I'll definitely be encouraging CCP to make more changes to drive the effects you list. In fact we have already started.


You do realize the number of eve players that DIDN'T vote for you, now do you?

Eve should be fun for all sorts of players, not only the quick fix, fast game gankers that invest **** all in the game, and will leave the minute another game gives them a quicker fix and faster game.

In fact your CSM tag means nothing.


Don't worry, I voted for you Mal. Of course, I'm a pirate and by the rules and suggestions listed in the last several pages of this thread I should have had my rite to vote revoked the first time I engaged in PvP as just punishment for my crimes.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#177 - 2013-05-08 23:05:38 UTC
Gunner wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Gunner wrote:
And yet another fine example of CCP stearing the game into more ship kills, preferably in high sec to maximize damage done ISK wise.

More ISK destroyed, more time invested in the game destroyed, more time needed to recover the losses, more rl $ for CCP.

Bah.



That... that all sounds pretty good to me.

I'll definitely be encouraging CCP to make more changes to drive the effects you list. In fact we have already started.


You do realize the number of eve players that DIDN'T vote for you, now do you?



Yep. They have the reps they voted for to represent their perspective. Anyone who did put me on one of their voting choices should know exactly what I stand for, and it would be a gross betrayal of their trust to let them down.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#178 - 2013-05-09 05:45:38 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Gunner wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Gunner wrote:
And yet another fine example of CCP stearing the game into more ship kills, preferably in high sec to maximize damage done ISK wise.

More ISK destroyed, more time invested in the game destroyed, more time needed to recover the losses, more rl $ for CCP.

Bah.



That... that all sounds pretty good to me.

I'll definitely be encouraging CCP to make more changes to drive the effects you list. In fact we have already started.


You do realize the number of eve players that DIDN'T vote for you, now do you?



Yep. They have the reps they voted for to represent their perspective. Anyone who did put me on one of their voting choices should know exactly what I stand for, and it would be a gross betrayal of their trust to let them down.


Well, I voted for you which means I obviously missed the campaign speech of you endorsing consequence free high security suicide ganks. In other words, I thought you were a serious straight up person who advocated balance between risk / reward along with reaping the consequence of choice.

Seems I was wrong about that.

As for the gloating pertaining to your CSM election, nobody likes a braggart.



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Lady Areola Fappington
#179 - 2013-05-09 06:10:34 UTC
Always thought it was strange that in a world of moral grays and lesser of two evils choices, that CONCORD was the one perfect moral authority. Made no sense at all.

In the world of EVE, there's always going to be people who put career advancement and status above doing things "right". The shady CONCORD agent doesn't care how you got the tags, just that you have them, and he's willing to cut you some slack in exchange for looking good to his boss.

Hell, RL cops/prosecutors do a similar thing. "Tell us who your dealer is and we'll go easy on you" is a pretty common refrain. This brings CONCORD more in line with that ideal.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
dark heartt
#180 - 2013-05-09 06:21:37 UTC
What I don't think people understand is this isn't really going to affect -10 pirates in highsec anyway as they can gank as a -10. This is going to be a good change for the Faction Warfare guys with negative sec status out there.

Chill out people and actually look at it from both sides...

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/