Missions & Complexes

Your both right. Yes you can fully passive fit a level 5 with max skills in a Rattle Snake in high sec. But the down side is your killing so slowly that you would do just as well if not better running level 4's with a dps fit Gunnery ship just blowing down rats fast when it comes down to a isk per houre deal.

Or you could get 2-4 of your budys together and blow down some level 5's and as level 5's get spilt evenly to every one the isk/hr ratio falls some were in the middle of level 4's isk/hr and Incursions isk/hr. Only when you run it with some budys. When you solo level 5's then they come in isk/hr right around and sometimes lower then your avg level 4's.

If it weren't for the inherent PvPness of flying in lowsec, I'd say “incursions are allowed because they're competitive, unlike missions”, with a sprinkling of the “…and they require coordination and co-operation” as others have mentioned.

On a slightly more negative note, I'd say that they didn't quite plan for them to be the massive income generators they turnout out to be and/or expected most of the ISK to be sunk into (and counteracted by) the new LP stores. Plan, meet reality and all that…

I did level 5's the bountys are the same as the one's in level 4's and I doute that your isk/hr is any higher then level 4's right now do to the state that shop and shop iteams are in. As most of the rewards that make level 5's better then level 4's have little to do with the bountys and more to do with the LP's.

Secondly ishtar will run the sites omost as slowly as the Rattle Snake only saving some time where ship speed is a time saver reather then killing speed. Though I dont personly know how you got around the nuteing towers with the ishtar and keept it in one piece. Congrats on that one. But I bet I could make more in liquid isk per houre in a gunnry based bs running level 4's then you can in a drone based ship of any kind running level 5.

Last but not least level 5's are tied to only a few LP stores were as level 4's can be found for omost every npc corp and there stores and Incurrsions LP's well I'm not going there.

Just saying.

At first I disagreed with XXSketchxx, but I definitely agree with his post-edit post.

Null sec is a logical progression for players with a lot of free time who like the excitement and challenge of PVP, industry and transport in a high risk, high reward environment. But over the past few years my corp's lost a lot of players because they couldn't couldn't balance null sec FCing and medium length CTAs with the thirty-something responsibilities of a spouse and a couple of kids.

So while I'd like to keep the highest payouts in the evolving, emergent environment of low sec, I also like the idea of challenging missions and other medium length / casual content in high and low sec for subscribers who cannot invest as much time -- and the upgrades XXSketchxx mentions would help retain some of those subscribers.

Then again, what do I know? Some days I'm just happy logging in a low SP alt for 15 minutes and blowing up Quafe NPC transports for giggles and smatterings of trade and PI goods (I think I still have 12k Quafe sitting around somewhere?).

they need to seed more agents in low sec, not putt them in highsec

There is a fundamental difference between incursions and lvl5's, incursions require teamwork, lvl5's do not. I can run any of them with only a single client and the ships I run them with do no less than 1k dps. You just can't do that with incursions and even if you could, you wouldn't make any isk for doing so since it penalizes bringing fewer ships than recommended. I do think incursions need their LP rewards lowered some but that's a separate issue from lvl5's. And lvl5 payout is just fine, even with the collapse of LP values I'm still doing very well with them. Probably better than you do with incursions though I won't swear to it since I only ran them a few times early on.

Just mod some rats in them to give tags. Lots of tags.

A small amount of L5s are done because of where they are placed. Go survey mission runners: "Why don't you do L5s?"; the answer I got was "can't do them in high sec", every single time. You can put a L5 agent in every single low/null sec system and they won't be run worth a damn.

Its boring content requiring a high ISK investment for marginally better gains at best, major loss at worst. Why would I risk my 3-400mil Ishtar in L5s for a few extra mil every hour? You're talking about dozens of hours of uninterrupted play to make up a loss.

Making more solo/tiny gang content (L5s in high sec) could even justify L4 nerfs, since people would have a real alternative risk/reward-wise.

The current jump in content is stuff that can be half AFK'd in a t1 BS (dominix) to requiring 7-8 BS pilots and 2-3 dedicated logistics ships.

L5s with sleeper AI, omni damage and possibly npc neut nerf, would need a few pilots with a logi (or maybe small RR BS gang) which would train people to use RR, teamwork and all that jazz before they are risking 2bil fits in Incursions.

There's an implicit requirement that you, and most other people wanting L5's back have, have, but somehow never want to make public... It's an even bigger requirement for you than the one you state above...

You want LOTS OF ISK WITHOUT REAL EFFORT (and a bit of challenge would not be scoffed at)...

If you want challenge, there's NOTHING that prevents you from running a L4 in a Caracal. I've done it, and it is CHALLENGE! Apart from a few missions, it is also doable, but make one tiny mistake, and... KABOOM!

...but then, you (and the others) doesn't REALLY want challenge, do you?

But no realy look at it.

Level 5's are in a pvp area but they req you go all out on a pve fit in order to do them. If your going to mission in low sec your much much better off doing FW missions. There much better balanced to there pvp enviorment and the rewards are great as well.

I am just saying ether change the level 5 mission to be like FW missions are or just add them back into high sec again. Ether way it will make EVE a better place becouse the content will be used more.

I have never gotten my head around the ideal that limiting the use of mmo content is good for the game or its players. And yes the combind conditions of the level 5 mission enviorment and the low sec enviorment limits this content very much. As it results in ether a no win or at best I got away for the mission runnering ship/gang and a I-win or damn the lucky sob got away for the pirat ship/gang.

Me personly I just think it would be easyer to add them back into high sec becouse the mission enviorment is already set for high sec. As one thing few to no people care to say is that they totaly wreck your standing with other empires. That right there limits alot of level 4 mission grinders that dont want to pick sides.

I use to be like that not wanting to pick sides then I got to the skill level were I could run level 5's and so I picked a side and that lead to also running FW missions in low sec from time to time as well becouse hell my other empire standings are already screwed and the rewards for FW missions are just as good as level 5's and insanly easyer to do and insanly cheaper ships and fits to risk.

And in FW I have seen more then a few head out to null npc/null player and WH's. So FW is a gate way for pvp and this other areas just as intented.

And high sec level 5's can be a gate way to FW. It was for me at least.

Just puting my two cents in on this along with some of the roads I have traveled in EVE and why I traveled them.