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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Question regarding gate camps
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Amela Blade
Menace 2 Sobriety
#1 - 2013-05-07 21:36:26 UTC
In low sec, how is it that gate campers are able to warp scram you almost instantly coming out of a gate and without locking you? Also what is the best way to try and get out of one?

Thank you
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-05-07 21:42:56 UTC
Amela Blade wrote:
In low sec, how is it that gate campers are able to warp scram you almost instantly coming out of a gate and without locking you? Also what is the best way to try and get out of one?

Thank you


In low-sec...they NEED a lock on you to point/scram you. They can be very fast though with certain ships and off grid boosts.

In null-sec...they don't need a lock when they have a bubble deployed. As a bubble is an Area of Effect module. Anything that is inside the bubble can't warp.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Amela Blade
Menace 2 Sobriety
#3 - 2013-05-07 21:45:51 UTC
ok maybe it just seemed like the person didnt lock me. As soon as I saw what was going on i tried warping to the most aligned point but as soon as i did i was warp scrammed and could do anything. Is there a better way to try and get out of the situation?
Concurssi Mellenar
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-05-07 21:46:34 UTC
I generally use a shuttle to get past gate camps, but I mostly stay in one low sec system and only leave to buy skillbooks from a nearby high sec system, so I don't need a lot of cargo space. If you do need cargo space, there's always this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uBcK_c8Gy4
But you'll need some skills and gear to do that.

He who controls the veld, controls the universe.
Amela Blade
Menace 2 Sobriety
#5 - 2013-05-07 21:56:40 UTC
Well i was on a roam with some other people and kind of went of course because im a newb and got caught in one lol. But im currently skilling into stealth bombers right now so that may help in the future. Thank you though
Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-05-07 23:29:28 UTC
They use SeBo's (sensor boosters) to lock u up asap. Your best bet is to try and get back through the gate you came through before you pop.

If they all agro'd you, you will then be able to get away before they can come through.

A well organized gang though will have someone jump through first to catch you on the other side.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#7 - 2013-05-07 23:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Generally speaking...

- some frigates align faster than others (ex. Executioners align faster than Punishers, Atrons align faster than Tristans, etc).

- some mods and rigs can slow down your align time (ex. armor plates, armor rigs).

- some mods and rigs can shorten your align time (ex. Nanofiber Internal Structures, Low Friction Nozzle rigs)

- some skills can shorten your align time (ex. Spaceship Command)

edit:
If you have been warp scrammed or don't think you can align out in time, burn back to the gate as fast as you can and jump back through (note: if you shoot or use any offensive modules you will get a timer that prevents you from jumping).

How did you Veterans start?
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#8 - 2013-05-08 00:08:46 UTC
Amela Blade wrote:
ok maybe it just seemed like the person didnt lock me. As soon as I saw what was going on i tried warping to the most aligned point but as soon as i did i was warp scrammed and could do anything. Is there a better way to try and get out of the situation?


If you have a "most aligned point" then you're already moving, meaning you're already visible/not in the gate-cloak anymore, meaning their lock timer has already been running for a moment or two.

If you pop through a gate and see a bunch of enemy (or, in low/null sec, a bunch of neutral) player ships floating around, the steps are:

1. Take your hands off the keyboard/mouse.
2. Breathe
3. Take a look around/at your overview to see what's there
4. Based on what they're flying and what you're flying, decide to run back to the gate or make a break for it.
5. Don't actually do anything until you've used 15 seconds or so of your gate-cloaked time. You have 30s, don't freak out.

Things to consider:
-- Smaller ships lock faster, bigger ships get locked faster as a rule of thumb. If you're in a BC and the camp has frigates, chances are you're going to get locked almost instantly once you un-cloak. Probably going back through the gate is your best bet.
-- If you see a ship spraying white waves as a smaller (frigate) ship, chances are that's a sensor booster to make them lock faster.
-- If you are in a default-mass frigate (e.g. you don't have any armor plates or really heavy cargo), and you direct your ship to warp to a celestial before you leave the gate-cloak, 99% of the time you'll have warped before the camp lands a target on you.
-- You don't have to target and then activate your scram, you can initiate target into overview with your scram, so generally the lock time is all you're getting.
-- Scrams have a range of ~10 km, and points ~20 km
-- Any fleet is going to have -6% off their lock time from leadership skills, at minimum. Usually -10%. If they're so obsessive they have an off-grid booster, it can go up from there. Plus all the modules that boost your sensors and so on. You can get very close to an instant lock, meaning that as a frigate you're relying on the half-second delay after leaving cloak before you actually show up on their screen more than being faster than their lock time.
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
#9 - 2013-05-08 08:41:05 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Generally speaking...

- some frigates align faster than others (ex. Executioners align faster than Punishers, Atrons align faster than Tristans, etc).

- some mods and rigs can slow down your align time (ex. armor plates, armor rigs).

- some mods and rigs can shorten your align time (ex. Nanofiber Internal Structures, Low Friction Nozzle rigs)

- some skills can shorten your align time (ex. Spaceship Command)

edit:
If you have been warp scrammed or don't think you can align out in time, burn back to the gate as fast as you can and jump back through (note: if you shoot or use any offensive modules you will get a timer that prevents you from jumping).


There is also a navigation implant that improves align time. Also a MWD will help you burn back to the gate, This has saved me more than once, especially in bigger slower ships.
darmwand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-05-08 11:01:24 UTC
Celeste Taylor wrote:
Also a MWD will help you burn back to the gate, This has saved me more than once, especially in bigger slower ships.


Not when you're warp scrambled.

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."
Merouk Baas
#11 - 2013-05-08 12:07:09 UTC
Most gatecamps have some thought behind them; they aren't just random idiots sitting on the gate shooting the breeze.

Planning:

- Neutral scouts sitting in adjacent systems at the far gates. reporting traffic that's about to come into the camp, what ship, what pilot, perhaps even cargo-scan with the silent target-lock module to tell them whether you're profitable to suicide.

- A fast-locking ship with lots of sensor boosters, and perhaps even remote-sensor-boosted by the rest of the group. This ship will triple-click on you in the overview as soon as you appear; this will target lock you, preventing cloak if any, and approach you, which will de-cloak you if they didn't manage to lock you in the first place. If your ship isn't fast, you won't be able to drift away under cloaked speeds fast enough to escape them approaching and decloaking you.

- Webifiers and warp-scramblers to lock you into place if you try to warp away or burn back to the gate. Warp scrambler has short range but disables MWD, if you have any.

- DPS ships sitting at the optimal range for maximum tracking and DPS on you. For suicide ganks, these ships often are the Minmatar artillery battlecruisers that can deliver one-shot kills on most industrials.

- A neutral cargo ship (industrial etc) on location to pick up any juicy loot your wreck may have before any vultures (passers by) loot you.

Basically, the camp is set up to maximize their chances and minimize yours. If you're solo, even with a cov-ops cloak, they can probably catch and kill you easily. Especially if you stumble into it unprepared. If you have a group that can take them out, their scouts report this and they scatter.

As it's been said above, you increase your chances of escaping if you:

- have a scout ahead of you that can report the gatecamp so you don't go there
- have a fast-align ship (typically an attack frigate with nanofiber modules in the low slots)
- have warp stabilizers to render the initial warp scram useless
- have cov-ops cloak and activate it right away, while burning out of the area in a random direction (google mwd-cloak trick).
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
#12 - 2013-05-08 21:44:33 UTC
darmwand wrote:

Not when you're warp scrambled.


Ah, thanks for the correction. I meant to type afterburners.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-05-08 22:06:57 UTC
Amela Blade wrote:
ok maybe it just seemed like the person didnt lock me. As soon as I saw what was going on i tried warping to the most aligned point but as soon as i did i was warp scrammed and could do anything. Is there a better way to try and get out of the situation?



An aside... the myth of the passive align.


Regardless of what the client is showing you, when your ship is stopped (0 m/s as is the case after jumping through a gate), it has no alignment.

The only thing that counts is the server, which does not store velocity as separate speed and direction components. Rather, it stores it as 3 components of speed, X, Y and Z. When you are stopped, your speed is 0,0,0. I.E. no speed, in no direction.

When you select warp to, your ship immediately begins moving in the direction of travel, only needing to get up to speed needed for warp..


From a dead stop, you can warp in any direction, with equal amount of acceleration time.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-05-09 10:35:28 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Amela Blade wrote:
ok maybe it just seemed like the person didnt lock me. As soon as I saw what was going on i tried warping to the most aligned point but as soon as i did i was warp scrammed and could do anything. Is there a better way to try and get out of the situation?



An aside... the myth of the passive align.


Regardless of what the client is showing you, when your ship is stopped (0 m/s as is the case after jumping through a gate), it has no alignment.

The only thing that counts is the server, which does not store velocity as separate speed and direction components. Rather, it stores it as 3 components of speed, X, Y and Z. When you are stopped, your speed is 0,0,0. I.E. no speed, in no direction.

When you select warp to, your ship immediately begins moving in the direction of travel, only needing to get up to speed needed for warp..


From a dead stop, you can warp in any direction, with equal amount of acceleration time.



This..

The visual presentation of your ship has nothing to do with alignment.


For the server your ship is just a dot and speed is a vector.

So if you speed is 0, there is no vector and as your ship is a dot, it will align in any direction at the same rate.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
#15 - 2013-05-09 10:36:33 UTC
Gate camp's are scary.

 ♥ 
Amela Blade
Menace 2 Sobriety
#16 - 2013-05-09 18:24:17 UTC
Thank you everyone for the helpful information and tips. The last gate camp I came across I managed to escape in a caracal by just overheating my MWD and DMG control and burning back to the gate I came. They managed to bring me down to just my armor. However I got kind of unlucky when I warped to the nearest station in the next system just to run into another group outside of it which they killed me in a single volley lol. But thanks again!