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Gnosis: Why is it so Terrible

Author
Aron Binchiette
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-05-08 06:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Aron Binchiette
I have been comparing the stats on different fits on the gnosis to other racial BC's and it seems that either buffer or active armor fits don't even compare to a brutix's stats, brutix has better tank, dps, and speed only thing it is lacking is range. and on the shield side a ferox has by more tank, less dps, better range, and a bit slower. I thought the Jovian were supposed to be a far more superior race? I understand that you cant make it so OP that nothing stands a chance against it but I thought CCP would make it just a little OP so more people will use them.
Alara IonStorm
#2 - 2013-05-08 07:02:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
The Gnosis is not a bad Battlecruiser. It's buffer tank is pretty standard, example with the common DCU and buffer rigs for 1 LSE and 2 Invulns EHP is 56k or 1 1600 and 2 EANM's EHP is 70k which is pretty average for a BC and that is across the board with no resist weakness which is a unique feature. Her DPS is not bad either with 5 bonused turrets and 5 bonused drones up to mediums with an extra set of lights for Frigs, not great but okay with a full choice of main weapons. Good cap, normal BC speed with Cruiser align time and Scan Res which is unique and welcome. Armor tanked she has a lot of EWAR space, Shield tanked she has a lot of Dmg / Nano room. Great fitting for her slot layout that leaves a lot of room to play around with armor or shield. It has plenty of good quality.

All together the Gnosis's omni ability is unique but her stats make her an average Battlecruiser and those two other Battlecruiser you listed are worse than the Gnosis in certain other area's, which is a common type of criticism, pick one area where a ship is better than use it as an example of why another is bad ignoring everything else. Gnosis isn't terrible, just average, it would not be likely to see much more use than any other if it wasn't so expensive but it would see average use.

That is the only problem with the Gnosis, she is short on numbers and high on cost, that is why I hope she is introduced into full Battlecruiser production, a paint job can be used to keep the current collectors items.
Juicy Pop
Isolated Entropy
#3 - 2013-05-08 07:04:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Juicy Pop
For one, I don't believe it is of true Jove origin, SoCT was merely found by a Jovian.

Plain and simple, it is an exploration boat with a uniquely flexible load-out.

It has certain areas where it may shine, but you cannot hope to see every other BC mimicked well in one hull.
xPredat0rz
Project.Nova
The Initiative.
#4 - 2013-05-08 07:05:43 UTC  |  Edited by: xPredat0rz
Aron Binchiette wrote:
I have been comparing the stats on different fits on the gnosis to other racial BC's and it seems that either buffer or active armor fits don't even compare to a brutix's stats, brutix has better tank, dps, and speed only thing it is lacking is range. and on the shield side a ferox has by more tank, less dps, better range, and a bit slower. I thought the Jovian were supposed to be a far more superior race? I understand that you cant make it so OP that nothing stands a chance against it but I thought CCP would make it just a little OP so more people will use them.


Its OP because you can fit any weapon system to it and it is effective.
You want a missile armor ship. You got it.
Shield Laser ship? You got it
You want to fit 2 projectiles 2 lasers 1 blaster and 1 missile launcher....yeah you can do that too.


It has an equal boost to everything. And a slot layout that begs to be toyed with.
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#5 - 2013-05-08 07:06:53 UTC
Correct me if i´m wrong:

The Gnosis is a civil ship, not a battlecruiser. Don´t compare it with our battlecruisers - more like use the Opus Luxury Yacht to compare ;)
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-05-08 07:07:52 UTC
xPredat0rz wrote:
[quote=Aron Binchiette]
You want to fit 2 projectiles 2 lasers 1 blaster and 1 missile launcher....yeah you can do that too.


bad idea since you're mixing different engagement ranges and damage increasing low slots will only affect one of those types.
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-05-08 07:10:15 UTC
Any ship that has so many diverse options will (obviously) need to be sub par to the specialist "best in breed" hulls. Otherwise balance goes right out the window. If its better than a brutix today and a super drake tomorrow and myrmidon next teusday then very soon we won't see any of those others.

This is what (some) people believe the T3 cruisers should have been. Sub par at everything but infinitely able to just scrape by. So thank goodness our T3 boats aren't all like my poor legion.
Aron Binchiette
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-05-08 07:13:35 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Armor tanked she has a lot of EWAR space, Shield tanked she has a lot of Dmg / Nano room. Great fitting for her slot layout that leaves a lot of room to play around with armor or shield.


Armor Tanked the Gnosis is seriously lacking in CPU I was having problems fitting it without leaving 3 of the midslots empty and when having less EHP then a Brutix something is wrong, shield tanked the thing is too damn slow to be nano so that leaves it as a brawler which the ferox is king of shield brawling BC's. and I did try to look at al the stats and they just didn't seem to be enough good things about the setups to counteract its bad parts for me. I have not however tried every possible weapons setup I only tried Blaster and AC fits because those are the 2 I am best with.
Juicy Pop
Isolated Entropy
#9 - 2013-05-08 07:16:14 UTC
Aron Binchiette wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Armor tanked she has a lot of EWAR space, Shield tanked she has a lot of Dmg / Nano room. Great fitting for her slot layout that leaves a lot of room to play around with armor or shield.


Armor Tanked the Gnosis is seriously lacking in CPU I was having problems fitting it without leaving 3 of the midslots empty and when having less EHP then a Brutix something is wrong, shield tanked the thing is too damn slow to be nano so that leaves it as a brawler which the ferox is king of shield brawling BC's. and I did try to look at al the stats and they just didn't seem to be enough good things about the setups to counteract its bad parts for me. I have not however tried every possible weapons setup I only tried Blaster and AC fits because those are the 2 I am best with.


CPU is definitely the most glaring weakness of the hull.
Aron Binchiette
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-05-08 07:17:28 UTC
xPredat0rz wrote:
Aron Binchiette wrote:
I have been comparing the stats on different fits on the gnosis to other racial BC's and it seems that either buffer or active armor fits don't even compare to a brutix's stats, brutix has better tank, dps, and speed only thing it is lacking is range. and on the shield side a ferox has by more tank, less dps, better range, and a bit slower. I thought the Jovian were supposed to be a far more superior race? I understand that you cant make it so OP that nothing stands a chance against it but I thought CCP would make it just a little OP so more people will use them.


Its OP because you can fit any weapon system to it and it is effective.
You want a missile armor ship. You got it.
Shield Laser ship? You got it
You want to fit 2 projectiles 2 lasers 1 blaster and 1 missile launcher....yeah you can do that too.


It has an equal boost to everything. And a slot layout that begs to be toyed with.


Yes the being able to fit any weapon system is a nice perk but in no way is that OP and your example of fail fitting the highs, although I do understand what you mean, doesn't exactly complement your argument
Aron Binchiette
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-05-08 07:19:26 UTC
Juicy Pop wrote:
Aron Binchiette wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Armor tanked she has a lot of EWAR space, Shield tanked she has a lot of Dmg / Nano room. Great fitting for her slot layout that leaves a lot of room to play around with armor or shield.


Armor Tanked the Gnosis is seriously lacking in CPU I was having problems fitting it without leaving 3 of the midslots empty and when having less EHP then a Brutix something is wrong, shield tanked the thing is too damn slow to be nano so that leaves it as a brawler which the ferox is king of shield brawling BC's. and I did try to look at al the stats and they just didn't seem to be enough good things about the setups to counteract its bad parts for me. I have not however tried every possible weapons setup I only tried Blaster and AC fits because those are the 2 I am best with.


CPU is definitely the most glaring weakness of the hull.

Agreed, when I first saw that scanner bonus I was thinking "finally a ship that you can fit a combat scanner on and pvp in that doesn't cost a fortune" then I saw the CPU
Aron Binchiette
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-05-08 07:21:16 UTC
StoneCold wrote:
Correct me if i´m wrong:

The Gnosis is a civil ship, not a battlecruiser. Don´t compare it with our battlecruisers - more like use the Opus Luxury Yacht to compare ;)

it is in the combat battecruiser classification
Aron Binchiette
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-05-08 07:23:35 UTC
Froggy Storm wrote:
Any ship that has so many diverse options will (obviously) need to be sub par to the specialist "best in breed" hulls. Otherwise balance goes right out the window. If its better than a brutix today and a super drake tomorrow and myrmidon next teusday then very soon we won't see any of those others.

This is what (some) people believe the T3 cruisers should have been. Sub par at everything but infinitely able to just scrape by. So thank goodness our T3 boats aren't all like my poor legion.

If this was a ship that was in normal supply I would agree, but considering this ship is in limited supply I why not make it better then al the other BC's by just a little in each of their roles so that there is more incentive to use it in pvp
Aron Binchiette
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-05-08 07:26:16 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
The Gnosis is not a bad Battlecruiser. It's buffer tank is pretty standard.

In my opinion any BC with less EHP then a brutix is not a standard tank.
Alara IonStorm
#15 - 2013-05-08 07:34:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Aron Binchiette wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
The Gnosis is not a bad Battlecruiser. It's buffer tank is pretty standard.

In my opinion any BC with less EHP then a brutix is not a standard tank.

It has 6% less HP with twice the agility and 50% more Scan Res.

Aron Binchiette wrote:

Armor Tanked the Gnosis is seriously lacking in CPU I was having problems fitting it without leaving 3 of the midslots empty and when having less EHP then a Brutix something is wrong, shield tanked the thing is too damn slow to be nano so that leaves it as a brawler which the ferox is king of shield brawling BC's. and I did try to look at al the stats and they just didn't seem to be enough good things about the setups to counteract its bad parts for me. I have not however tried every possible weapons setup I only tried Blaster and AC fits because those are the 2 I am best with.

CPU is fine with meta and if necessary 1 NAP, the Ferox or Brutix doesn't have such a great drone defenses or agility, it can not align in a few seconds and again worse scan res.

Once again.

Alara IonStorm wrote:
All together the Gnosis's omni ability is unique but her stats make her an average Battlecruiser and those two other Battlecruiser you listed are worse than the Gnosis in certain other area's, which is a common type of criticism, pick one area where a ship is better than use it as an example of why another is bad ignoring everything else. Gnosis isn't terrible, just average

It has its strengths and is thoroughly average. Nothing special, it is out preformed in some area's, does better in others.
Mra Rednu
Vanishing Point.
#16 - 2013-05-08 07:40:48 UTC

If only we could to do multiple quotes in same post..........
Aron Binchiette
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-05-08 07:41:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Aron Binchiette
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Aron Binchiette wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
The Gnosis is not a bad Battlecruiser. It's buffer tank is pretty standard.

In my opinion any BC with less EHP then a brutix is not a standard tank.

It has 6% less HP with twice the agility and 50% more Scan Res.

it also has 17% less DPS and 13% slower and I have found in battle your scan res and agility on an armor ship are the least of your worries
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Aron Binchiette wrote:

Armor Tanked the Gnosis is seriously lacking in CPU I was having problems fitting it without leaving 3 of the midslots empty and when having less EHP then a Brutix something is wrong, shield tanked the thing is too damn slow to be nano so that leaves it as a brawler which the ferox is king of shield brawling BC's. and I did try to look at al the stats and they just didn't seem to be enough good things about the setups to counteract its bad parts for me. I have not however tried every possible weapons setup I only tried Blaster and AC fits because those are the 2 I am best with.

CPU is fine with meta and if necessary 1 NAP, the Ferox or Brutix doesn't have such a great drone defenses or agility, it can not align in 3 seconds and again worse scan res.

I had meta mwd and plates on the fits I was testing and if I started to meta other mods I lose combat effectiveness and if need CPU mods or rigs I lose gank or tank
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2013-05-08 07:44:51 UTC
Aron Binchiette wrote:
Froggy Storm wrote:
Any ship that has so many diverse options will (obviously) need to be sub par to the specialist "best in breed" hulls. Otherwise balance goes right out the window. If its better than a brutix today and a super drake tomorrow and myrmidon next teusday then very soon we won't see any of those others.

This is what (some) people believe the T3 cruisers should have been. Sub par at everything but infinitely able to just scrape by. So thank goodness our T3 boats aren't all like my poor legion.

If this was a ship that was in normal supply I would agree, but considering this ship is in limited supply I why not make it better then al the other BC's by just a little in each of their roles so that there is more incentive to use it in pvp



I'll spot you the limited supply, but that really becomes a cost issue more than an incentive issue. At least until supply from a million alts taper off. Was there a bpc of any kind for these or were they one off ships? I never bothered to look into it and just assumed it was a novelty hanger ornament.

Also imagine the uproar if the gnosis out performed EVERY BC.

Instead a half dozen threads about how one omni hull is only average s&m gets flooded by end of the world threads about every BC on the eve of the skill changes. I'll pass on that.
dethleffs
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#19 - 2013-05-08 07:46:13 UTC
kids these days...
Alara IonStorm
#20 - 2013-05-08 07:51:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Aron Binchiette wrote:

it also has 17% less DPS and 13% slower and I have found in battle your scan res and agility on an armor ship are the least of your worries

So? Put a TD on it and or Duel Prop her or what not. It has six mids to the Brutix's four. Get creative, use that utility.

Different strengths. If you are more comfortable in a Brutix use it, the Gnosis isn't meant to replace anything.
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