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DX 11 in Odyssey?

Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#61 - 2013-05-07 21:54:31 UTC
AbhChallenger wrote:

I agree that unless they are willing to all in to make full use of DX11. It is not worth it.

DX9 use is not a metric tho in my opinion. DX9 Is due to XP and XP is out in 2014.

It's the same kind of metric they used when ditching the classic client and whn abandoning SM2 (to say nothing of Linux), so it'll probably pop up here as well.

I'd say hat the chances of them going for two render paths is pretty darn smaill; if they can't use the exact same graphical assets for both, it plummets to zero. If all they're doing is adding in tesselation, largely extrapolated from existing assets, then maybe…
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#62 - 2013-05-07 22:03:08 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Montevius Williams wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Adela Talvanen wrote:
I recall during the FF recorded coverage that in the Animation Q&A one of the devs mentioned somethig along he lines that the next expansion will be having DX 11 features.

I might have miss heard, or CCP is finally moving from DX 9 graphics.

That doesn't sound right, as our Win XP users would have issues.


Nothing says lack of progress like running antiquated systems.

Seriously, if EVE cant feature state of the art assets becasue of Windows XP - wow

I cant believe people still run XP. I mean, damn, didnt Windows stop supporting XP like 5 years ago? I ould be wrong, but If they are still supporting it, that cant be doing so for long.

People latched onto XP as a finally stable version of Windows like it was a life preserver in a sea of stormy OS's.

It's easy to overlook how buggy and more importantly how insecure it is when it runs halfway decently.

Note: I haven't run XP for a loooong time. Too many programs I use won't run on it as it is so out of date.



Ho yes please explain me how much secure how much stable and how much performing XP is over Win8, yeah, me would like to have a good laugh.

Xp was an awesome OS just like you said in a time where most OS's were bullcrap but now I think I can safely say Win8 is just a pure little beast when you put some effort to adapt or just use a 3rd party little addon that makes if just awesome.

If you only play with your PC, use some light exell stuff, agenda etc you know, small stuff, yeah Xp is still ok, my smartphone does it too and I can even play HD films/vids on it...
Try to run some professional software with heavy calculations (architecture or engineering) on XP and the same on Win8 to see the difference, it's really amazing how perceptible this difference is.

Whoa big fella. Smile

Take a moment and read my post again, then read the rest of them.

You'll find I'm in complete agreement with you.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Zeko Rena
ENCOM Industries
#63 - 2013-05-07 22:03:41 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
So you're fine with forcing a lot of people to pay several hundred dollars (at least) just to continue playing? But it's okay, right? Cause it's not like you have to do anything to get all the shinies you want.

I seriously doubt CCP feels the same way. You can either get a job with CCP to help them develop an optional DX 11 client, or you can shut up and wait for them to do so, or you can just shut up and deal with it.



How about you shut up and deal with it and upgrade your toaster, or go back to playing Pong
AbhChallenger
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-05-07 22:04:54 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, I'm sure the number of people who were using Gen 1 Atoms comes anywhere close to the number of people running DX11 incompatible hardware.
Get real.


You can't upgrade a Gen 1 Atom and Intel Chipset to run EVE. Nor most All-In-One's and Notebooks.

Desktops are another matter. A 30 USD card and you are DX11. And that is Early 2013 not 2014 when XP support finally ends. Used is likely a great deal cheaper.

So the amount of systems that will be made completely unable to run EVE (If CCP decides to go DX11 only) will likely be similar to back then as will be the amount of people that will quit EVE despite plenty of heads up of the changing system requirements in my opinion.

Yes right now there is a significant amount of systems that can't handle DX11. A vast majority can and will upgrade or purchase new systems given enough time and reason. Many of those are Windows XP systems that likely will be replaced with prebuilt Intel Ivy bridge and up or AMD which is all DX11 hardware in 2014.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#65 - 2013-05-07 22:26:03 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm saying that a lot of people are unable to upgrade, and you wanting your shinies isn't enough justification to force people to spend money they may not have or simply stop playing.


Hmm. Your degree isn't in business?

All I'm gettin at is that when the amount of new subs lost becomes greater then subs lost to upgrading the product, its time to upgrade the product.

I was PISSED when they nixed the linux client. Which was also the classic graphics client. They didn't go under then, and more people play the game now. And a lot less people would play the game now than if they never upgraded the "classic" graphic.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2013-05-07 22:30:10 UTC
Zeko Rena wrote:
How about you shut up and deal with it and upgrade your toaster, or go back to playing Pong

Only if you pay to upgrade it for me. Why should I have to pay more just because you want a graphics update?
Go play Crysis 3 if you want cutting edge graphics.
You're the one who should shut up and deal with it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

AbhChallenger
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-05-07 22:34:50 UTC
Just please start thinking about what you can do IF they decide to make a DX11 only client and give you hopefully a very long heads up on it.

This is just my wild guess without any evidence but if I was still sitting on DX9 hardware I would start saving in anticipation for a mid to late 2014 DX11 client. Well after XP goes into unsupported by Microsoft.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2013-05-07 22:36:04 UTC
AbhChallenger wrote:
Just please start thinking about what you can do IF they decide to make a DX11 only client and give you hopefully a very long heads up on it.

Naturally.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#69 - 2013-05-07 22:41:55 UTC
CCP has exact figures on how many of their subscribers that are running which OS.

No amount of shouting in either direction is going to change those figures.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-05-07 22:43:25 UTC
If we get DX11 I'll stop trolling and I'll even become an ISD to fight trolls Straight

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#71 - 2013-05-07 22:45:13 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
All I'm gettin at is that when the amount of new subs lost becomes greater then subs lost to upgrading the product, its time to upgrade the product.

I was PISSED when they nixed the linux client. Which was also the classic graphics client. They didn't go under then, and more people play the game now.
That's a bit of a false dichotomy, though. There's nothing to suggest that they gained any more subscribers just because they upgraded to a DX9 path, and the reason they didn't go under was exactly because they didn't just go DX9 — they offered it to those who wanted it and could use it, and retained the old path for those who could not until the number of people in that category was so small that it was lost in the noise of other lost subscribers.

Also, trying to shore up (short-term) numbers by wowing people with graphics that, in the end, don't matter much when hidden behind all those windows (or when zoomed out to give a good tactical perspective) and which are not a long-term source of retention, at the cost of people who have invested lots of time — to say nothing of multiboxing alt accounts — is a pretty bad idea. The notion that you can exchange your old customer base for a new one — even partly — is fairly well disproven these days.

Anyway , the main lesson from Trinity was that dual rendering paths suck. Doubly so if it means you have to duplicate every effort in adjusting or adding graphical assets. In fact, it was rather amazing how long they kept the classical client going when you consider the added workload. Ugh
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2013-05-07 22:45:29 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
CCP has exact figures on how many of their subscribers that are running which OS.

No amount of shouting in either direction is going to change those figures.

How many times does it need to be said that the OS isn't the only restriction?
I'm running Windows 7. Still can't do DX11.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#73 - 2013-05-08 00:01:28 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
EvE has a ton of oldschool players. Unfortunately, they are unwilling and/or unable to upgrade from XP. I think the saying "you can't teach a old dog new tricks" definately applies. Even though the differences between XP and windows 7 are virtually non-existant. I wouldn't recomend windows 8, as the difference would likely blow their minds. They don't even release service packs for XP anymore, its so outdated. They're literally leaving their systems vunerable to modern advancements, all because of their attachment to what they are used to.

Seriously, XP people, upgrade your rigs. You're holding all of EvE back from sweet modern graphics. We don't want to have to wait for you to all die off before it happens! Shocked


microsoft stopped service packs for W7 too
personally though EVE runs fine under WINE (save for the annoying CQ freeze glitch)

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt

Stan'din
Pandemic Alpha
#74 - 2013-05-08 00:30:14 UTC
Its a real sad state of affairs when people moan and whine about upgrading a rig do these sound familiar ?

" blah blah blah am not made of money"
" why should i upgrade to play a game i pay for "
" the graphics look fine as they are "
" My 10 year old PC should be able to run EVE "


If you are one of the above please do the rest of us a favour and quit PC gaming and buy a console, the whole point of gaming on a PC is game on a superior platform of cutting edge software and visuals.
YOU are the reason EVE looks as it does ( which is improving all the time lots of <3 CCP ) , and you are the reason the rest of us who have invested time and money building or buying our rigs so we can play games on constant 60fps with beautiful visuals have to suffer below par standards.



Eve has the potential to be absolutely breathtaking, but you oxygen thieves need to either nut up or shut up. and catch the rest of us up in 2013 not 2003.

Your about as much use as a condom dispenser in the Vatican.

Zeko Rena
ENCOM Industries
#75 - 2013-05-08 01:39:24 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zeko Rena wrote:
How about you shut up and deal with it and upgrade your toaster, or go back to playing Pong

Only if you pay to upgrade it for me. Why should I have to pay more just because you want a graphics update?
Go play Crysis 3 if you want cutting edge graphics.
You're the one who should shut up and deal with it.


I avoid any game with "EA" on it in any shape or form these days, so Crysis 3 just won't do, besides there are no internet spaceships in Crysis 3 gosh golly gosh!

Anyway regardless, one day you are actually going to have to put a little bit of chump change towards your computer even if you don't want too, I would suggest slowly trying to upgrade now so that you don't have to be so sour in threads talking about and speculating about Direct X 11.

For my last rig I slowly bought it part by part over a time period and kept using my old computer in the meantime, this way its not such a huge instant cost but rather spread out over time.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#76 - 2013-05-08 02:48:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
All I'm gettin at is that when the amount of new subs lost becomes greater then subs lost to upgrading the product, its time to upgrade the product.

I was PISSED when they nixed the linux client. Which was also the classic graphics client. They didn't go under then, and more people play the game now.
That's a bit of a false dichotomy, though. There's nothing to suggest that they gained any more subscribers just because they upgraded to a DX9 path, and the reason they didn't go under was exactly because they didn't just go DX9 — they offered it to those who wanted it and could use it, and retained the old path for those who could not until the number of people in that category was so small that it was lost in the noise of other lost subscribers.

Also, trying to shore up (short-term) numbers by wowing people with graphics that, in the end, don't matter much when hidden behind all those windows (or when zoomed out to give a good tactical perspective) and which are not a long-term source of retention, at the cost of people who have invested lots of time — to say nothing of multiboxing alt accounts — is a pretty bad idea. The notion that you can exchange your old customer base for a new one — even partly — is fairly well disproven these days.

Anyway , the main lesson from Trinity was that dual rendering paths suck. Doubly so if it means you have to duplicate every effort in adjusting or adding graphical assets. In fact, it was rather amazing how long they kept the classical client going when you consider the added workload. Ugh


There are many many people who will never again buy a dx9 game. While you may not be one of them, its just a fact of life. They had to upgrade to dx9 or loose customers. They will have to upgrade again, its just how the industry works. The only level of debate is when will it be necessary to the business model.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2013-05-08 03:00:44 UTC
Zeko Rena wrote:
I would suggest slowly trying to upgrade now so that you don't have to be so sour in threads talking about and speculating about Direct X 11.

I would, if my graphics card weren't soldered directly to the motherboard.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Shaun Klaroh
Th3 Darp Legion
#78 - 2013-05-08 03:02:38 UTC
A lot of these arguments are the same arguments made back when the switch to Premium (DX9) was made.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2013-05-08 03:04:03 UTC
Stan'din wrote:
and you are the reason the rest of us who have invested time and money building or buying our rigs so we can play games on constant 60fps with beautiful visuals have to suffer below par standards.

I didn't force you to invest your time and money. That was your choice. If you knew the state of graphics in EVE and upgraded your rig past what was necessary to run it anyway, and are now demanding that CCP improve the graphics to justify your purchase, then you're an absolute moron.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Shaun Klaroh
Th3 Darp Legion
#80 - 2013-05-08 03:07:21 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Stan'din wrote:
and you are the reason the rest of us who have invested time and money building or buying our rigs so we can play games on constant 60fps with beautiful visuals have to suffer below par standards.

I didn't force you to invest your time and money. That was your choice. If you knew the state of graphics in EVE and upgraded your rig past what was necessary to run it anyway, and are now demanding that CCP improve the graphics to justify your purchase, then you're an absolute moron.


Why not? CCP's improved drastically over time, why not again? Sure, lot of work but it helps the longevity of the game. Is DX11 the way to go? Eh.. I dunno. Maybe a better LOD or better effects for long-range fights would be better off, but there's no reason to ever stop improving visual quality.