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The Blockade L4 - Sansha - Tracking Disruption is getting me crazy
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Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#1 - 2011-11-02 22:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Korgan Nailo
Got "The Blockade" against Sansha. Yay right?

Wrong, I couldn't finish and had to warp out in shame.


In case someone is interested, this is my ship / fit / skills:
Nightmare
Tachions:
Imperial Navy Multifrequency: 36.4km optimal, 782 DPS
Imperial Navy Xray: 54.6km optimal, 651 DPS
Imperial Navy Standard: 72.9km optimal, 521 DPS

One TE equiped.
With 2xTC with Tracking Speed: 0.0375 tracking, 31.2 fall off
With 1xTC with Tracking Speed and 1xTC with Optimal Range: 0.0306 tracking, 39.3 fall off
With 2xTC with Optimal Range: 0.0238 tracking, 46.1 fall off


Ever since I moved to Amarr for missioning, I had little problem with Sansha after I switched for a Nightmare. The Abbadon was ok, but with only 10kms, some missions were almost impossible specially because I still can't use T2 ammo.


With that said, it was with great desolation that I warped out from a The Blockade L4 against Sansha simply because 4 elite cruisers orbiting me at 25kms were "unkillable".

I had all five light combat drones on one of them, and was also shooting the same cruiser. They went all the way from 50kms to 25kms without me being able to kill a single one, until finally all battleships from the wave reached their "optimal" and I simply couldn't tank the pocket anymore.

Then warped back in at 70kms, of'course they TDd me again, but this time I was lucky to only have two TDs landing. Third and fourth didn't land before I could blow up at lest one of those cruisers. Had to use one TC with Tracking Speed and another with Optimal Range or no hits, as usual.


When the TD takes place my Optimal goes to hell, being about 12kms with Standard crystals as my Tracking, going to 0.004.


So, here are my two questions:
- Am I doing something wrong or TD is really this f(word)ing annoying?
- Is there any better way to counter TD?

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Brothar Rey
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#2 - 2011-11-02 22:34:39 UTC
I keep a Missile chucker ship (Drake) for just such a mission myself.

I'll take it out, kill the TD cruisers and then switch back to the battleship to mop up.
Goose99
#3 - 2011-11-02 22:50:42 UTC
Sansha TD is not bad. Try Serpentis version Blockade. They sensor damp you to 5km locking range, and spawn 100km away in opposite directions.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#4 - 2011-11-02 22:51:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Goose99 wrote:
Sansha TD is not bad. Try Serpentis version Blockade. They sensor damp you to 5km locking range, and spawn 100km away in opposite directions.


This. So much this.

Edit: after looking at your numbers, I'm thinking this could be a skill issue. My incredibly, stupidly conservative NM fit throws out 900 dps using IN multi and has never had serious issues with tracking disruption (and I'm only fitting one TC).
Leetha Layne
#5 - 2011-11-02 23:05:34 UTC
You have T2 drones I hope.
george harries
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-11-02 23:34:50 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Sansha TD is not bad. Try Serpentis version Blockade. They sensor damp you to 5km locking range, and spawn 100km away in opposite directions.


This. So much this.

Edit: after looking at your numbers, I'm thinking this could be a skill issue. My incredibly, stupidly conservative NM fit throws out 900 dps using IN multi and has never had serious issues with tracking disruption (and I'm only fitting one TC).



I have to agree withthe above- I have flown a lot of missions in Amarr and they only problematic ones were Gurista - on my NM (IN Tachs) with IN multi I get 1019 DPS using 3 HS and have 2 tracking enhancers and 1 tracking computer. Getting Amarr BS up to at least 4 will help with tracking but it may be you need to skill up your gunnery skills a bit more before it really 'shines' in lvl 4's. In all honesty it is probably the best ship for missions in Amarr space.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#7 - 2011-11-03 00:53:13 UTC
Korgan Nailo wrote:

I had all five light combat drones on one of them,

Here's your other issue. You have 75 m3/bandwidth. You should have a set of T2 Hobgoblins and a set of T2 Hammerheads in there. With that and Drone Interfacing to atleast 4, you shouldn't have any issues with cruisers at all.
mingetek
Brainless in Space
#8 - 2011-11-03 03:36:55 UTC
i get the same thing but not overly that often.

if i gotta i warp off and come back at range and sniper thier asses.
..
Will Strafe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-11-03 05:30:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Will Strafe
Many of these problems can be remedied by fitting an Afterburner. Kite the cruisers and shoot them while they give chase in a direct path towards you.

I Missioned in a Nightmare, had the Rebublic AB I think, and it is a pretty easy fit IIRC.

The Tachy Nightmare shines because it gets a tracking bonus amongst other thing, so it can get away with using Tachs. But if you are low skilled then maybe you haven't come "over the top" and the Nightmare will let you down.

Maybe try and keep some pulse lasers in hangar for those closerange missions?
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-11-03 05:30:50 UTC
You have to manage the spawns. Did this one earlier in my tonight in the Mach. Clear the cruisers slowly but steady. I do not think that ECCM works on NPC EWAR at all (at least that has been my experience) so drop that and try to tank up for frustratingly slow kills. i honestly do not have issues with the Serps. B-line each pack of Gaurdians and open up point blank. they kind of melt. On Guristas 100% agree they are just not possible to clear in a turret boat in any sort of time. that handfull of Piths in Dread Scarlette usually takes me as long as the rest of the mission combined. Am honestly considering getting a few levels of caldari BS just for a Rattler just for Guristas. As of now I load an overtanked drake with FOFs and go make lunch...

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

pussnheels
Viziam
#11 - 2011-11-03 12:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: pussnheels
Those elite sansha elite cruisers tend to orbit you between 10 and 15 k
the trick i use is to fly straight to them and force them to break orbit, whilethey try to orbit you again ,making them ideal targets for your MF crystals and webber combo , if you have a webber fitted that is , ( webber makes it easier )
Repeat on each and every elite cruiser
If you got really good drone skills , setting your drones on your target aswell makes them die even faster

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Le'Mon Tichim
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2011-11-03 13:41:54 UTC
Honestly, the second wave is the hardest. The following waves all have TD's, but not near as many. There really isn't any shame in warping out and back in, I fly a Nightmare as well and The Blockade - Sansha is the closest I've come to rage quitting in Eve.


And Hammerhead II's help, but it's been my experience that the elite cruisers don't even feel them.

Can you hear them? They are calling to us. It is beautiful. http://thegreattichim.wordpress.com/
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-11-03 14:06:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyniac
I love my Dominix Cool

But yes - better drone skills and use of drones should fix the issue for you. (Hammerheads!)
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#14 - 2011-11-03 14:36:46 UTC
Hey folks, thanks all for the replies.

A few things I would like to share.

--== Skills ==--
Amarr Battleship is at lvl 4, Motion Prediction is at lvl 4. If I had those at lvl 5 it would be the maximum tracking I could have in a Nightmare. At the moment it is 0.0375 with the maximum with all at lvl 5 being 0.0413. I don't think it would have been enough to turn the tide my favor.

--== DPS ==--
Ppl mentioned 900+ DPS. I'm just using 3xHeat Sinks (two are IN). One slot was sacrificed for a Cap Flux so I could run everything without worrying about cap.

Another thing is that I'm still skilling for t2 guns. So far, the tachions I'm using had never let me down, and I don't know how that would make a difference at this time considering that ALL tachions in game at the moment have the same tracking, optimal and fall off, and if you don't land your shots then.... well, I just don't see how that would be of a difference.

--== Drones ==--
Yes, I didn't have a set of hammerheads with me at the time. I had just came from Angel Extravaganza and had put them out for a set of warriors. The light drones could drop those cruisers shields, but not their armor. Probably the hammers would have done it.


Back to the mission, yes it was the second wave.

I wonder if this isn't one of those missions where you should just warp in at 70 right away so you would have groups coming from different distances. Hitting things at 90+kms is not a problem in a Nightmare. I'll try that next time I have this mission while I'm improving my drone skills, which would definitely have done the trick it seems. =)

Once again, thanks folks for sharing some thoughts. =D

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Meltmind2
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-11-03 16:23:33 UTC
Funny thing: sansha TD only affects optimal, not falloff, so my machariel is hardly affected by them.
Akina Damaar
Akina Damaar Corporation
#16 - 2011-11-03 16:41:07 UTC
Imho, Sansha Blockade is simply one of the really painful missions for any gunboat. Maybe not as bad as Serpentis version, but bad enough. Depending on mood I simply decline it when it comes up. It's definitly not good isk/hour, so only doing it when I want the "challange".

Quite a few good tips in this thread that I also found helpful:

- T2 Hammerheads
- You will fight in falloff (your optimal will be totally crippled). Shouldn't be a problem with Tachyons. I swapped a heat sink for a TE when I last tried with mega pulses.
- Fly straight into them to break orbit.
- Do not warp out and in back at 70km. You will be TDed after max one volley (which won't kill the elite cruisers) and then fly 50km just to get into falloff again.
Meltmind2
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2011-11-03 16:58:27 UTC
Alternatively: use a 2nd heavily tanked "soaker' ship (domi, geddon, abaddon, whatever) to take all the aggro/damage, if a new wave spawns and aggroes your dps ship, warp out (pref to a BM that is ~500k away from the warpin), have the soaker take aggro, warp back in and kill.
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#18 - 2011-11-03 18:05:30 UTC
Meltmind2 wrote:
Funny thing: sansha TD only affects optimal, not falloff, so my machariel is hardly affected by them.

Hehe... Projectiles... totally OP compared to the other turrets ATM. Don't forget you can also do every kinds of damage.

So if I were flying a Minmatar, I would just go with Autocannons, one TE and two TCs for tracking compensation. That alone and you would almost have no fall back in your range while still maintaining about 0.009 tracking. Enough to hit stuff at 50kms.

Now, imagine if TD also affected your fall off the same way it affects the optimal... hell... pure and simple.

Akina Damaar wrote:

- Do not warp out and in back at 70km. You will be TDed after max one volley (which won't kill the elite cruisers) and then fly 50km just to get into falloff again.

This is what worked for me so I could do the wave.
The trick is that:
- so far, your tracking computers can be switched to Optimal Range so your fall off is even bigger. Mine gets to 39km with just one TC going to Optimal Range. Would have the same results with two TE, since TE gives the same optimal / fall off bonus as a TC with Optimal Range script.
- since you're not in the middle, you have one group close and another far away. By the time you clear the cruisers, and start working on the battleships the second group is getting into range.

Bottom line is: if you get TD in this mission, you have nothing but your drones or a lucky shot to save you.

And I agree, this thread brought up some good ideas. =)

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Sayo Kisuke
CreoDron Technical RnD
#19 - 2011-11-03 19:45:24 UTC
I used to run lvl 4 sansha missions in a paladin and nightmare a long time ago. I always had to "manually" fly when shooting those close cruisers with either ship. I just put the target in my view and double click in front of him to rotate my ship and decrease the angular velocity. T2 drones help out too. I normally fit close range guns and an afterburner to make it a bit easier to close the gap but if you can't use T2 crystals then ouch!
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#20 - 2011-11-03 21:44:21 UTC
Sayo Kisuke wrote:
... if you can't use T2 crystals then ouch!

Yep, that is where the Nightmare came in for me. Nightmare + tachions t1m4 is ok, but Abbadon with Pulse without Scortch is almost impossible.

The awesome thing is, I don't think I'll drop the Nightmare so soon, hehe =D

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