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EULA is a joke?

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Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-05-07 13:56:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxandrolone
EULA is intentionally vague so it can be interpreted by the creator however they like, welcome to life

this guy is a space lawyer, maybe speak to him http://i.imgur.com/P9gP7iX.jpg
Davion Thellere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-05-07 14:00:40 UTC
Ammanii Justar wrote:
the eula is a legal document, it's meant to have precise meanings is legal terms for lawyers, not to be easily understood by us laymen, sadly.

I´m no lawyer, just a software developer myself, but "single licensed copy" is about as precise and straightfoward as it comes.
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-05-07 14:11:39 UTC
Quote:
"1. REQUIREMENTS TO PLAY
To play EVE, you must: (i) purchase and download a copy of the Software;"
Hold it? You just using the free download of the software is a breach of Eula?


No. You can download the software for free, but you only can play EVE with a license and downloaded software. Pretty clear imho. "purchand and download" means both is required. You can do only one of both if you wish, but you can't play then.


Quote:
"2. YOUR ACCOUNT
You may establish only one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. If you wish to establish another Account, you must obtain another license for the Software (you may do this by purchasing and downloading the Software from CCP at the EVE Online web site,"
Hold it? Does this mean what i think it does?


One account, one license. Two accounts, two licenses etc.

Quote:
"9. LICENSE
A. Software License
...
You may not use more than one Account with a single licensed copy of the Software.
"
You really are supposed to install a single copy of EVE for every account you use?

Geez, i guess 90% of the Eve players are in violation of the EULA then, well whats the worst that could happen ...


It says "single licensed copy", not "single copy".

Quote:
"5. TERMINATION; SUSPENSION OF ACCOUNT
...
B. By CCP for Breach or Misconduct (1) Suspension of Account
CCP may immediately, and without notice, discontinue or suspend access to the System through your Account, and any and all other Accounts that share the name, phone number, e-mail address, internet protocol address or credit card number with the discontinued or suspended Account, in the event of (i) a breach of the EULA (including the Rules of Conduct) by you or any user under your Account;"

Could someone official please clarify this bullshit?


Clarification: If you fool around with CCP, get lost.

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Lady Areola Fappington
#24 - 2013-05-07 14:14:59 UTC
Wait till he gets to the part about how CCP can terminate his account for any, or no reason at all. Minds will be blown.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#25 - 2013-05-07 14:15:20 UTC
Yeah, CCP needs to revise that section.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#26 - 2013-05-07 14:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
Quote:

1. REQUIREMENTS TO PLAY
To play EVE, you must: (i) purchase and download a copy of the Software;"

2. YOUR ACCOUNT
You may establish only one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. If you wish to establish another Account, you must obtain another license for the Software (you may do this by purchasing and downloading the Software from CCP at the EVE Online web site,"

9. LICENSE
A. Software License
You may not use more than one Account with a single licensed copy of the Software.


Standardized EULA crap. Copypasta.

Quote:

5. TERMINATION; SUSPENSION OF ACCOUNT
B. By CCP for Breach or Misconduct (1) Suspension of Account
CCP may immediately, and without notice, discontinue or suspend access to the System through your Account, and any and all other Accounts that share the name, phone number, e-mail address, internet protocol address or credit card number with the discontinued or suspended Account, in the event of (i) a breach of the EULA (including the Rules of Conduct) by you or any user under your Account;"


First off, CCP does not allow multiple users under a single account, so this last bit is even more obviously copypasted BS. Any EULA has a part which says we retain the right to ban you from our servers no matter what. The sole reason EULAs are included is to exclude responsibilities of the developers, not to limit your use of the software. That's already handled by copyright law.

The only question that matters is, can CCP ban you from their servers legally while you have paid IRL money for your account? The answer is yes, they can.
Jove Angel
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-05-07 14:28:24 UTC
EULA is all what CCP want it to be.

If you challenge them you have to go to there court in Iceland as they have some weird £$%^& going on.

I know, they used the EULA jargon on one of my chars and wont give him back cos he was stolen from me

And then it happened. Massive, eerily green blasts erupted from seemingly nowhere, and an Amarrian Apocalypse went up in flames.  "It was a Jovian Mother ship".
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-05-07 14:44:38 UTC
The language you're referring to can only be interpreted one way, that is precisely how/why it was written. I don't see why all the hurfblurf over nothing.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#29 - 2013-05-07 14:55:43 UTC
You're over thinking this.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Kazuma Gaterau
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-05-07 15:31:37 UTC
Davion Thellere wrote:
After changing language settings in Eve today the EULA poped up again.
Well, that allways happens when you change the language, and well usually i dont read such stuff, but somehow i caught a glimpse of something weird, and read on a bit further.
So here are a few amusing tidbits (check them for yourself!):

"1. REQUIREMENTS TO PLAY
To play EVE, you must: (i) purchase and download a copy of the Software;"
Hold it? You just using the free download of the software is a breach of Eula?

"2. YOUR ACCOUNT
You may establish only one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. If you wish to establish another Account, you must obtain another license for the Software (you may do this by purchasing and downloading the Software from CCP at the EVE Online web site,"
Hold it? Does this mean what i think it does?

"9. LICENSE
A. Software License
...
You may not use more than one Account with a single licensed copy of the Software.
"
You really are supposed to install a single copy of EVE for every account you use?

Geez, i guess 90% of the Eve players are in violation of the EULA then, well whats the worst that could happen ...

"5. TERMINATION; SUSPENSION OF ACCOUNT
...
B. By CCP for Breach or Misconduct (1) Suspension of Account
CCP may immediately, and without notice, discontinue or suspend access to the System through your Account, and any and all other Accounts that share the name, phone number, e-mail address, internet protocol address or credit card number with the discontinued or suspended Account, in the event of (i) a breach of the EULA (including the Rules of Conduct) by you or any user under your Account;"

Could someone official please clarify this bullshit?


Ok here is a decrypted version
1. The subscription agreement and Terms of Service Agreement you agree to when subscribing is "the purchase"
2. This means that in order to use the second accoutn you need to make an additional purchase (subscription) This one sounds a bit confusing but it literally means you cannot use a second account unless you pay for a second account.
9. By purchasing an additional subscription (account) you are being granted an additional license. So that just states that once again you must pay for that second account to play.
5. Termination at will pretty much. It reserves the right that CCP may ban your account whenever they feel it necessary with our without warning
Othran
Route One
#31 - 2013-05-07 15:39:06 UTC
EULAs aren't generally worth the paper they are written on.

CCPs is no exception and is in fact slightly worse than most in that it attempts to claim Icelandic jurisdictiction over a service provided wholly from London, UK which isn't a good position to start from. The EFTA agreement would see cases decided in the main country of business, which is the UK as that is where the servers and associated utility services (power and connectivity) are located.

Nobody but the most anal of scum (lawyers/solicitors/other parasites on life) would bother pursuing a claim for what would end up as CCP paying back subs at most.

Get a life people FFS.
Rutger Janssen
Chanuur
The Initiative.
#32 - 2013-05-07 15:57:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Rutger Janssen
I'm not the only one that actually read it and find it strange! :D

I've already petitioned about it and I'll paraphrase the response as I can't quote the GM(it was quite far up the chain). This happened back in october/november so it might be outdated. I'm also paraphrasing so don't hold any GM responsible for the text below:

Regarding the complete EULA: It's partially outdated and based on when it was still a retail box. GM would contact legal on my behalf to get it looked at, but I have no idea what happened to that request.

Regarding point 1:
You kinda buy the software when you activate the account as it's 5 euro/dollar more. Plex are more expensive than a normal game month so you kinda pay that too.

Regarding point 2 and 9a:
First of all you will not get banned or in any legal trouble for only having one installation and using that with multiple accounts. It wasn't the intention to limit players to only use 1 account per installation.

Further evidence by a GM provided earlier is that the client supports the dropdown with accounts that have logged in on that installation.

Note:
I never pressed the case if you had 2 accounts, if you can use 1 of the accounts on all 4 locations so that may or may not be a breach of the eula.
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#33 - 2013-05-07 16:37:05 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
When you first subscribe, there is a fee of around £3 for the software. The first month costs something like £12 as opposed to £9 or whatever it is.

Anyway EULA is basically just to cover their own backs. It basically says, 'You agree to let us do whatever we want and we won't get in trouble for it'.

And then we have laws being drafted to nullify such positions which are regarded as anti consumer practices.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#34 - 2013-05-07 16:41:25 UTC
All of eve is going to get banhammered!
000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
#35 - 2013-05-07 16:45:47 UTC
Been playing for years against all the rules apparently...

Haven't seen any CCP ninja's trying to kill me yet. Twisted
Davion Thellere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-05-07 20:36:43 UTC
Colonel Xaven wrote:
Quote:
"1. REQUIREMENTS TO PLAY
[quote]"9. LICENSE
A. Software License
...
You may not use more than one Account with a single licensed copy of the Software.
"
You really are supposed to install a single copy of EVE for every account you use?

Geez, i guess 90% of the Eve players are in violation of the EULA then, well whats the worst that could happen ...


It says "single licensed copy", not "single copy".

I am unfamiliar with operator precedence in legal matters.
Is "single licensed copy" the same as "(single licensed) copy" or "single (licensed copy)"?
But yeah, i guess if having multiple active accounts means you have a (multiply licensed) copy and dont need multiple (licensed copies) that might make sense.
Pitrolo Orti
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-05-07 20:51:27 UTC
Eve is dying

Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#38 - 2013-05-07 20:53:40 UTC
EULA is a joke = it would have been challenged lost after 10 years.

Non-legal interpretation of the EULA is a joke = what the OP said.

Could it be better? Of course. Could it be worse? I've seen worse. Does it do the job nicely? Yes. Did they abuse it to get rid of the cancer called mittens when he told that kid to kill himslef? no.

Win some, lose some I guess.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Davion Thellere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-05-08 00:51:42 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
EULA is a joke = it would have been challenged lost after 10 years.

Non-legal interpretation of the EULA is a joke = what the OP said.

Nearly all EULAs are a joke.
Need examples?
Microsoft can´t restrict the sales of OEM versions to end consumers (germany only ).
Restricting sales of used software via EULA is unenforcable (EU-wide).

Cipher Jones wrote:

Could it be better? Of course. Could it be worse? I've seen worse. Does it do the job nicely? Yes. Did they abuse it to get rid of the cancer called mittens when he told that kid to kill himslef? no.

Win some, lose some I guess.

Dont get me wrong, i am not saying CCP did anything wrong. (And no, dont have a problem with CCP in case you are wondering)
All i am saying is that CCP has clauses in there that are completely stupid. Pretty obviously CCP didnt enforce any rules which would just cost them bandwith, but why are they even there?
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
#40 - 2013-05-08 00:57:01 UTC
Davion Thellere wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
EULA is a joke = it would have been challenged lost after 10 years.

Non-legal interpretation of the EULA is a joke = what the OP said.

Nearly all EULAs are a joke.
Need examples?
Microsoft can´t restrict the sales of OEM versions to end consumers (germany only ).
Restricting sales of used software via EULA is unenforcable (EU-wide).

Cipher Jones wrote:

Could it be better? Of course. Could it be worse? I've seen worse. Does it do the job nicely? Yes. Did they abuse it to get rid of the cancer called mittens when he told that kid to kill himslef? no.

Win some, lose some I guess.

Dont get me wrong, i am not saying CCP did anything wrong. (And no, dont have a problem with CCP in case you are wondering)
All i am saying is that CCP has clauses in there that are completely stupid. Pretty obviously CCP didnt enforce any rules which would just cost them bandwith, but why are they even there?

Boilerplate EULA. They all read the same in general, with name changes for the company it's for and minor changes to the text depending on what type of game/platform it is. Forum guidelines are the same.
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