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Faction & Storyline, Officer, Deadspace

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Mei Ling Cobon-Han
Prosperity Industrial
#21 - 2013-05-04 16:28:57 UTC
Blod Bladelicker wrote:
I don't see the problem with seeing deadspace etc, since people not "testing" right now, won't be doing it either when it gets seeded, while some real testing people will be able to properly test their usual fits from TQ.
But I can also see why it is a bad idea to seed it all if CCP gets any info at all from 6-c, but incase they don't get info from 6-c, I don't see the problem of it.

Finally, a shining star in a dark Solar System. At least someone is on my side about getting them seeded again. No non Dev players are testing anyway, using T2 stuff all the time. Wouldn't be any different than with DED or Officer
Mei Ling Cobon-Han
Prosperity Industrial
#22 - 2013-05-04 16:30:24 UTC
Solhild wrote:
There will be some people who'd fit the deadspace stuff and play SISI EFT. They'd decide a particular fit was great then try to copy it onTQ by sourcing the mods there. These people would find that the price is ridiculous and need lots of isk for it. As they'd tried the kit and liked it on SISI, nothing else would do at all so they's stump up PLEX to pay for it.
The end result is as follows:
-stronger market for PLEX to buy deadspace stuff
-more activity in sanctums etc. to get mods
-more uber fit missioning ships in EVE
-more suicide ganking of mission ships to collect deadspace mods
-more players working lowsec to improve sec status so they can gank again
-more PLEX being bought/sold from impatient players who can't be bothered to work lowsec and need tags
-more active EVE
-more cash for CCP

true story

And you, have an extremely good point. End result, CCP gets more money, meaning they're happy. Seems like they gain from seeding. Theoretically anyway
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2013-05-06 10:10:13 UTC
Mei Ling Cobon-Han wrote:
Solhild wrote:
There will be some people who'd fit the deadspace stuff and play SISI EFT. They'd decide a particular fit was great then try to copy it onTQ by sourcing the mods there. These people would find that the price is ridiculous and need lots of isk for it. As they'd tried the kit and liked it on SISI, nothing else would do at all so they's stump up PLEX to pay for it.
The end result is as follows:
-stronger market for PLEX to buy deadspace stuff
-more activity in sanctums etc. to get mods
-more uber fit missioning ships in EVE
-more suicide ganking of mission ships to collect deadspace mods
-more players working lowsec to improve sec status so they can gank again
-more PLEX being bought/sold from impatient players who can't be bothered to work lowsec and need tags
-more active EVE
-more cash for CCP

true story

And you, have an extremely good point. End result, CCP gets more money, meaning they're happy. Seems like they gain from seeding. Theoretically anyway


Unless they just sit on Sisi playing with infinite Deadspace fits of course, which they have done.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Mei Ling Cobon-Han
Prosperity Industrial
#24 - 2013-05-06 10:59:12 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Mei Ling Cobon-Han wrote:
Solhild wrote:
There will be some people who'd fit the deadspace stuff and play SISI EFT. They'd decide a particular fit was great then try to copy it onTQ by sourcing the mods there. These people would find that the price is ridiculous and need lots of isk for it. As they'd tried the kit and liked it on SISI, nothing else would do at all so they's stump up PLEX to pay for it.
The end result is as follows:
-stronger market for PLEX to buy deadspace stuff
-more activity in sanctums etc. to get mods
-more uber fit missioning ships in EVE
-more suicide ganking of mission ships to collect deadspace mods
-more players working lowsec to improve sec status so they can gank again
-more PLEX being bought/sold from impatient players who can't be bothered to work lowsec and need tags
-more active EVE
-more cash for CCP

true story

And you, have an extremely good point. End result, CCP gets more money, meaning they're happy. Seems like they gain from seeding. Theoretically anyway


Unless they just sit on Sisi playing with infinite Deadspace fits of course, which they have done.

Not going against your authority here, but so what? (With all due respect of course) To get into the Sisi server, you have to pay for EVE anyway. But right now, people in Sisi (At least 150) are in the PvP System right now, killing each other with Caps and Super Caps. And at this very moment, they're fighting on the Station. I'd give you a screenshot, but I'm not really sure how to do that Ugh
Angmar Udate
#25 - 2013-05-06 12:10:03 UTC
Mei Ling Cobon-Han wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Mei Ling Cobon-Han wrote:
Solhild wrote:

snip

And you, have an extremely good point. End result, CCP gets more money, meaning they're happy. Seems like they gain from seeding. Theoretically anyway


Unless they just sit on Sisi playing with infinite Deadspace fits of course, which they have done.

Not going against your authority here, but so what? (With all due respect of course) To get into the Sisi server, you have to pay for EVE anyway. But right now, people in Sisi (At least 150) are in the PvP System right now, killing each other with Caps and Super Caps. And at this very moment, they're fighting on the Station. I'd give you a screenshot, but I'm not really sure how to do that Ugh



Because sisi is a development and testing server and not meant for this kind of behavior and at the same time it would go against CCPs non-sharding philosophy.
Blod Bladelicker
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-05-06 13:05:32 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Mei Ling Cobon-Han wrote:
Solhild wrote:
There will be some people who'd fit the deadspace stuff and play SISI EFT. They'd decide a particular fit was great then try to copy it onTQ by sourcing the mods there. These people would find that the price is ridiculous and need lots of isk for it. As they'd tried the kit and liked it on SISI, nothing else would do at all so they's stump up PLEX to pay for it.
The end result is as follows:
-stronger market for PLEX to buy deadspace stuff
-more activity in sanctums etc. to get mods
-more uber fit missioning ships in EVE
-more suicide ganking of mission ships to collect deadspace mods
-more players working lowsec to improve sec status so they can gank again
-more PLEX being bought/sold from impatient players who can't be bothered to work lowsec and need tags
-more active EVE
-more cash for CCP

true story

And you, have an extremely good point. End result, CCP gets more money, meaning they're happy. Seems like they gain from seeding. Theoretically anyway


Unless they just sit on Sisi playing with infinite Deadspace fits of course, which they have done.


I understand your point, which is a very valid point. But does it really matter whether they play with infinite T2 or deadspace fits? - I guess I answered this below...
I don't know how much info you get from 6-cz49 battles, if any, so I personally don't see the problem currently.
I was there when you last seeded the mods and altho it's true that 95% of the people in 6-c used them non-stop it might have helped some people test deadspace fits in non-pvp situations and see how that works.(Because the contracts and markets from TQ are basicly empty on the same day so that is not a real place to get the mods)
But I also agree that fully testing T2 fits is important, especially with the upcoming changes, and sadly there is no middle ground.(Only thing I could think of would be each few mirrors(For example 3 normal 1 fully) everything gets seeded but that would probaly require a bit of non-important work for devs that could be spent better)
Isbariya
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-05-06 16:15:12 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Mei Ling Cobon-Han wrote:
Solhild wrote:
There will be some people who'd fit the deadspace stuff and play SISI EFT. They'd decide a particular fit was great then try to copy it onTQ by sourcing the mods there. These people would find that the price is ridiculous and need lots of isk for it. As they'd tried the kit and liked it on SISI, nothing else would do at all so they's stump up PLEX to pay for it.
The end result is as follows:
-stronger market for PLEX to buy deadspace stuff
-more activity in sanctums etc. to get mods
-more uber fit missioning ships in EVE
-more suicide ganking of mission ships to collect deadspace mods
-more players working lowsec to improve sec status so they can gank again
-more PLEX being bought/sold from impatient players who can't be bothered to work lowsec and need tags
-more active EVE
-more cash for CCP

true story

And you, have an extremely good point. End result, CCP gets more money, meaning they're happy. Seems like they gain from seeding. Theoretically anyway


Unless they just sit on Sisi playing with infinite Deadspace fits of course, which they have done.


How about seeding some Revenant super carriers ? I would like to get a feel on them to better figure out if i want to farm the 150b isk for it.
Just Lilly
#28 - 2013-05-06 21:43:19 UTC
I've collected quite a few deadspace modules on TQ over the years.

I dare not fit em on TQ, so I play around with em on sisi instead.
Should someone decide to gank me there, they'll get banned, and all of my
shiny toys will be back in my ownership with each new mirror =)

I like it P
Powered by Nvidia GTX 690
Unkind Omen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-05-06 21:45:46 UTC
Why dont just change the principle of seeding stuff itself?

You can provide faction and deadspace mods at 100mil-1B isk each and force those who want to test stuff like that into a massive selfdestruct ops which will limit the amount of people who would like to pvp using that stuff.

The other way is to give players the devhack to spawn plexes and anomalies or create a system nearby to main PvP system where all of the plexes would be present with the instant respawn. That system should certainly contain several W-space entrances also. That would provide a nice plex testing playerbase alongside with the supply of such stuff for those who want to test it on their ships.
Jonny Copper
The Cadre Arareb Foundation
#30 - 2013-05-07 05:18:09 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Mei Ling Cobon-Han wrote:
Solhild wrote:
There will be some people who'd fit the deadspace stuff and play SISI EFT. They'd decide a particular fit was great then try to copy it onTQ by sourcing the mods there. These people would find that the price is ridiculous and need lots of isk for it. As they'd tried the kit and liked it on SISI, nothing else would do at all so they's stump up PLEX to pay for it.
The end result is as follows:
-stronger market for PLEX to buy deadspace stuff
-more activity in sanctums etc. to get mods
-more uber fit missioning ships in EVE
-more suicide ganking of mission ships to collect deadspace mods
-more players working lowsec to improve sec status so they can gank again
-more PLEX being bought/sold from impatient players who can't be bothered to work lowsec and need tags
-more active EVE
-more cash for CCP

true story

And you, have an extremely good point. End result, CCP gets more money, meaning they're happy. Seems like they gain from seeding. Theoretically anyway


Unless they just sit on Sisi playing with infinite Deadspace fits of course, which they have done.


Thats really the problem right there... Infinite...

Seeing as how people want to test deadspace/officer/faction why not just give them 2-6 of each module, or at the very least the most common ones. (Warp disruptor, Armor and shield tanking mods, damage mods, ewar, etc) just covering the basics.... That way they have a certain amount they can test, but if they lose them they are done with them and have to resort to T2 from there on out... I mean, especially for this mirror where everyone has 1 of each super and people with carrier 3 and fighters 1 are flying moms with fighters, i dont think implementing a limited amount of dead/officer/faction mods for each player the same way supers were given would change much as it is right now.

And you dont need to worry about people raging about super builds... Because you cant build these mods (which would be another option)
Kora Ethereal
Ethereal Beings
#31 - 2013-05-07 06:23:51 UTC
These mods do exist on SiSi, you just have to farm them from their officers. Considering you can fit virtually anything you want that is (already) seeded, I see no reason you can't do a little work and go duke it out to kill an Officer.
There's not really any risk involved at all, all you have to do is find them, once you locate one just throw ships at it, or get a few friends. No risk, high reward.

If they are seeded in mass, they will be abused in mass. Even with insane prices, there is nothing stopping people from accruing vast amounts of ISK via insurance + self-destruct. So unless these puppies run several trillion ea, they shouldn't be seeded. Also the claims of the necessity of testing them out are ridiculous, if anything is wrong they will be handed out for a mass-test, closed testing, etc...
Jonny Copper
The Cadre Arareb Foundation
#32 - 2013-05-07 14:44:52 UTC
Kora Ethereal wrote:
These mods do exist on SiSi, you just have to farm them from their officers. Considering you can fit virtually anything you want that is (already) seeded, I see no reason you can't do a little work and go duke it out to kill an Officer.
There's not really any risk involved at all, all you have to do is find them, once you locate one just throw ships at it, or get a few friends. No risk, high reward.

If they are seeded in mass, they will be abused in mass. Even with insane prices, there is nothing stopping people from accruing vast amounts of ISK via insurance + self-destruct. So unless these puppies run several trillion ea, they shouldn't be seeded. Also the claims of the necessity of testing them out are ridiculous, if anything is wrong they will be handed out for a mass-test, closed testing, etc...


In the case of officer spawns which is what your talking about, the odds are extremely low of finding an officer.

"You could expect to run into officer spawn for every 20 to 40 faction spawns you find. Thus chance for officer is about one in 400 to 2000 cleared spawns, at least in good 0.0 space."
From this wiki page: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Belt_rat_spawns

Add into account that systems lose military index after the mirrors, which takes away the sites, and your odds are so slim to none that there is essentially no point in doing this.
Rammix
TheMurk
#33 - 2013-05-08 02:22:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Kora Ethereal wrote:
These mods do exist on SiSi, you just have to farm them from their officers. Considering you can fit virtually anything you want that is (already) seeded, I see no reason you can't do a little work and go duke it out to kill an Officer.

Funny reasoning. Go build T2-T3 ships and T2 modules on SiSi, they can be built there so why bother to seed.

I think a test server should have seeded absolutely everything that the game has. People should be able to test every module and every ship they have skills for. Ideally, that is. Also there should be ways to quickly find a wormhole, some specific anomaly etc.

I understand why devs don't want to seed very expencive modules, like officer etc. But at least modules which cost on TQ less than 0.5 b must be seeded. IMO.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#34 - 2013-05-08 10:18:23 UTC
Unkind Omen wrote:
Why dont just change the principle of seeding stuff itself?

You can provide faction and deadspace mods at 100mil-1B isk each and force those who want to test stuff like that into a massive selfdestruct ops which will limit the amount of people who would like to pvp using that stuff.

The other way is to give players the devhack to spawn plexes and anomalies or create a system nearby to main PvP system where all of the plexes would be present with the instant respawn. That system should certainly contain several W-space entrances also. That would provide a nice plex testing playerbase alongside with the supply of such stuff for those who want to test it on their ships.


To the first point, the ISK value is irrelevant on Sisi due to insurance/selfdestruct.

The second point is something that is an interesting idea, but that I want to solve in the "create a system" manner. My current line of thinking is to have a "test constellation", with one system with fast respawning sites, one with all levels and types of agents with no standing requirement, etc. Fleshing it out just now but I really like it.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#35 - 2013-05-08 10:22:03 UTC
Jonny Copper wrote:
Kora Ethereal wrote:
These mods do exist on SiSi, you just have to farm them from their officers. Considering you can fit virtually anything you want that is (already) seeded, I see no reason you can't do a little work and go duke it out to kill an Officer.
There's not really any risk involved at all, all you have to do is find them, once you locate one just throw ships at it, or get a few friends. No risk, high reward.

If they are seeded in mass, they will be abused in mass. Even with insane prices, there is nothing stopping people from accruing vast amounts of ISK via insurance + self-destruct. So unless these puppies run several trillion ea, they shouldn't be seeded. Also the claims of the necessity of testing them out are ridiculous, if anything is wrong they will be handed out for a mass-test, closed testing, etc...


In the case of officer spawns which is what your talking about, the odds are extremely low of finding an officer.

"You could expect to run into officer spawn for every 20 to 40 faction spawns you find. Thus chance for officer is about one in 400 to 2000 cleared spawns, at least in good 0.0 space."
From this wiki page: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Belt_rat_spawns

Add into account that systems lose military index after the mirrors, which takes away the sites, and your odds are so slim to none that there is essentially no point in doing this.


That site only covers pirates in belts, not sites.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Kora Ethereal
Ethereal Beings
#36 - 2013-05-08 10:23:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kora Ethereal
Rammix wrote:
Kora Ethereal wrote:
These mods do exist on SiSi, you just have to farm them from their officers. Considering you can fit virtually anything you want that is (already) seeded, I see no reason you can't do a little work and go duke it out to kill an Officer.

Funny reasoning. Go build T2-T3 ships and T2 modules on SiSi, they can be built there so why bother to seed.

I think a test server should have seeded absolutely everything that the game has. People should be able to test every module and every ship they have skills for. Ideally, that is. Also there should be ways to quickly find a wormhole, some specific anomaly etc.

I understand why devs don't want to seed very expencive modules, like officer etc. But at least modules which cost on TQ less than 0.5 b must be seeded. IMO.


It's good reasoning, but what says it would stop there, even if they did seed the less expensive mods, capsuleers will just want more. By refusing to budge on Deadspace/Officer mods, CCP shows a strong stance of not letting SiSi become EFT (which some people do treat it as anyways).

And don't get me wrong, anomalies, officers, and other things are far rarer on a cluster w/ no activity, the likelihood of anything showing up is slim.

Back to the point, it seems like people keep staring at the testing server as a tool or toy of sorts to use for their own needs and benefits, It isn't there to necessarily let us play with toys we wouldn't dare play with or could afford on TQ, it's to let us test the release, effects, search for bugs, preview features, and overall make sure the release won't cause a catastrophic server melting event when released; in turn they want feedback and logs from mass-tests. If you want to test your fits then do so, but stop asking for more and more, the market isn't exactly some buyers preview. If anything though, current owners that have Officer/Deadspace mods mirrored over from TQ should be allowed to obtain copies of their gear seeing as they already worked their asses off obtaining it. Personally speaking I own none of the sorts and I tend to test fits that are within my grasp of expenditure on TQ. Overall SiSi has had things removed for good reason, if Devs chose not to seed the mods then just respect it and quit posting the same old topic. Just be happy they seed crap at all.



Finally:

Let me repeat the same, old, overused, misunderstood phrase once again, SINGULARITY IS NOT EFT.
Jonny Copper
The Cadre Arareb Foundation
#37 - 2013-05-08 16:03:27 UTC
That site only covers pirates in belts, not sites.[/quote]

Right? And im not 100% on this, but if the military index level is 0, do sites still spawn? Because i went around a few systems in sisi and couldnt find jack all to test my ratting tengu fit.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#38 - 2013-05-08 17:54:13 UTC
Jonny Copper wrote:
That site only covers pirates in belts, not sites.


Right? And im not 100% on this, but if the military index level is 0, do sites still spawn? Because i went around a few systems in sisi and couldnt find jack all to test my ratting tengu fit.
[/quote]

They spawn, just infrequently. Please see my post above on "test constellation" for how I would like to mitigate this.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Rammix
TheMurk
#39 - 2013-05-08 18:16:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Kora Ethereal wrote:
SINGULARITY IS NOT EFT.

I understand it. But seems EFT-style usage is inevitable. And it's not that bad.
If sisi had restrictions which would allow ONLY 'real' testing, much less people would go there. Such rules would mean that all testing would be done only by dedicated testers, without 'casual' visitors who could also - at least accidentally - find bugs and glitches.

So, in my opinion, sisi must be considered an open testing ground. "EFT"-like usage of sisi is an acceptable evil. And I think that a line between allowed / disallowed modules should be derived from modules' prices on TQ. That is, if a module's price on TQ is higher than 500 mil (or even 300 mil) it's not seeded on SiSi. Such rule would still filter out expensive fitting fans.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Markus Zenway
Jian Products Engineering Group
#40 - 2013-05-08 18:33:01 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
... My current line of thinking is to have a "test constellation", with one system with fast respawning sites, one with all levels and types of agents with no standing requirement, etc. Fleshing it out just now but I really like it.

Yes! This is a great idea and it seems like it would work well with the new scanner changes that need testing.
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