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Most intresting game mechanic?
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dark heartt
#21 - 2013-05-07 02:19:30 UTC
Actually I just noticed you also asked for game mechanics outside of Eve too.

I love Dishonored's first person blink mechanic. It was fun to use and when you got good with it you could pull off some sweet executions.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Julius Rigel
#22 - 2013-05-07 02:22:50 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
Yep that would be my answer too. Eve's market is incredible.
I wouldn't say the market is particularly interesting from a mechanical standpoint - It's just a simple algorithm that maintains a database of buy and sell orders, and matches a buy order to a sell order if the item, price, and location are compatible. That's not to say such a huge database with an incredible turn-over isn't an impressive feat, but in my opinion it's not a very interesting topic for an essay about mechanics, it would be more interesting as a social interaction sort of thing.

Do YOU like to undock?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-05-07 02:23:53 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Write an essay on the influence of players behavior in regards to the local mechanic. I would be happy to grade it for you.

Hahaha oh man, you just don't quit do you?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#24 - 2013-05-07 02:24:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Julius Rigel wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Or better yet, get a real degree that is relevant (Computer Science), then apply to a studio and walk over all the "game dev" graduates with your actually applicable skills.
Yes, I agree that some branch of computer science (especially software engineering in this context) would be a far more useful thing to learn.

But I think that game design in itself serves an interesting academic role. Game design is the architecture of video games. The study of how a game feels to play, as well as why. What actually makes the dynamics of a game into the aesthetics we perceive when we play, and so on.

Computer science is obviously required to build the software that becomes the game, but it doesn't necessarily give you an understanding of why for instance Yoshi's Island is an amazing game, and why Yoshi's Story by comparison is crap.

That said, it does seem like a lot of universities and other learning institutions are adding a "game design department" purely based on the thought "what do them young'ns like to do these days? Perhaps we ought to have one of them vid'yer game thingies", and they reassign some old fart from the lit faculty to teach "Narrative in Video Games 101" while the statistics professor down the hall has to figure out what to put on the curriculum for his "Building Mobile Games with Java" class, and that's obviously not game design. This may seem far-fetched, but they actually do this.

The thing is that generally comes just from playing games with a developer's mindset. It is a lot like taking film appreciation courses - sure you might learn a thing or two, but you won't ever compete with someone who loved film since he was a kid and watches them with a professional critic's mindset for analysis.

A good employee in a company that is producing software of any kind is intimately familiar with how that software works on the base level. A decent manager has managerial skills, a good one has managerial skills and can code. A decent artist can draw fantastic concept art, a good one knows very well what is feasible and what wont translate into polygons well. A decent designer understands what makes games fun, a good one knows how to implement that himself.

Your ideal employee in a game design studio is someone with at least a comp sci minor, a major in their relevant field, and personal experience. An art major / comp sci minor who has drawn up the art on a couple app store games his buddy made is pretty much what an artist would want to strive for, for example.
Julius Rigel
#25 - 2013-05-07 02:29:30 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
I love Dishonored's first person blink mechanic.
This, on the other hand, is quite an interesting mechanism. You could write about how it works in Dishonored, then draw comparisons to other mechanisms in other games that have the same theme, such as the mage's blink in World of Warcraft, which has the same premise, but works very differently mechanically. You could also look at other games with mechanics that have similar effects of moving you from one location to another, such as the hookshot in 3D Zelda games, maybe even get a bit kooky and go as far as looking at teleporting mechanics like Dhalsim's infamous teleports in Street Fighter.

Do YOU like to undock?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-05-07 02:34:20 UTC
Julius Rigel wrote:
What I like about this mechanic in EVE is that although warping is in practice very necessary to get from one place to the other, it isn't required, and the mechanism doesn't do anything special to your ship beyond flagging it as "in warp", which prevents you from using certain modules, and also prevents you from adjusting your speed and heading manually. That's the brilliant part. If you want, you can fly normally from one place to another, there's no artificial barrier preventing you from travelling between A and B in a system on your sub-warp engines, it just takes a long time.

Beyond a certain distance I don't believe this is actually possible. I don't remember the exact number but I remember there reading a maximum possible distance you can fly to get from one object to another by sublight, and any distance beyond that must be reached by a warp otherwise the game will break or... something.
In any case the distance was impracticably large for sublight travel anyway (albeit shorter than the distances between most stargates)

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#27 - 2013-05-07 02:40:50 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Julius Rigel wrote:
What I like about this mechanic in EVE is that although warping is in practice very necessary to get from one place to the other, it isn't required, and the mechanism doesn't do anything special to your ship beyond flagging it as "in warp", which prevents you from using certain modules, and also prevents you from adjusting your speed and heading manually. That's the brilliant part. If you want, you can fly normally from one place to another, there's no artificial barrier preventing you from travelling between A and B in a system on your sub-warp engines, it just takes a long time.

Beyond a certain distance I don't believe this is actually possible. I don't remember the exact number but I remember there reading a maximum possible distance you can fly to get from one object to another by sublight, and any distance beyond that must be reached by a warp otherwise the game will break or... something.
In any case the distance was impracticably large for sublight travel anyway (albeit shorter than the distances between most stargates)

There is a maximum value that can be stored in a long integer or long double memory location. Going past that will wrap around and break all sorts of logic reliant on it.

It is possible to work around this limitation, but to do so you basically have to stitch multiple memory locations together and in the process, end up basically doubling or more the memory set aside for every single distance value. Going the situational expansion route is prone to making the code unreadable and causing all sorts of subtle bugs.
Julius Rigel
#28 - 2013-05-07 02:49:06 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
The thing is that generally comes just from playing games with a developer's mindset. It is a lot like taking film appreciation courses - sure you might learn a thing or two, but you won't ever compete with someone who loved film since he was a kid and watches them with a professional critic's mindset for analysis.
Oh, absolutely. I very much agree that the stuff you would learn today from any course labeled "game design" is probably not going to be very useful, or very true to the term "game design". But I do think that it is possible and viable to come up with rules for designing dynamics that will have a predictable outcome in play, the same way you have rules for how you code a mechanism that has a predictable outcome to how that mechanism performs dynamically.

I.e. it's just like a programmer can use a formula to come up with a "jump" function that more or less works without too much trial and error, rather than spending an hour going "ok... First step... I guess we need to check for a HID event. Alright, now we change the player's vertical speed variable to be some positive number, ok, now when I compile this and press jump, the player moves upward constantly, let's think about how to get him back down" and so on.

In the same way, I think it's possible to come up with rules and methods that describe the way you lay out the platforms in the level of a platforming game, what movement things, such as dashing, jumping, grappling hook, levitation, etc., work well together. In simple terms, it would be definitive answers to why specific gameplay elements feel good or feel bad. Yes, of course, much of that is stuff you get a sense for just by playing games. But my point is that game design as an academic field next to programming, next to visual art, next to sound design, and all the other things that go into a game, should be the formal language describing why a game feels the way it feels to the person playing it.

Do YOU like to undock?
Julius Rigel
#29 - 2013-05-07 02:59:39 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I don't remember the exact number but I remember there reading a maximum possible distance you can fly to get from one object to another by sublight, and any distance beyond that must be reached by a warp otherwise the game will break or... something.
Well, I don't know exactly how the server does this stuff, but the way you're describing it, that doesn't sound quite right.

In my experience, if you just start flying in an arbitrary direction, once you get off the grid, the server loads another grid next to that and gives your ship local coordinates on that new grid instead, and as far as I can tell, it will just keep plopping you on the next grid over and giving you new local coordinates as long as you keep reaching the edge of the previous grid.

My grid-fu isn't particularly strong compared to those experienced nullsec people who have to deal with the extended grids and such on a daily basis, but I've seen quite a few things in my time. Heck, just last week I had to reposition a container because I had anchored it in such a spot that the grid would shrink back when traffic was low, and it would just be stuck in extended-grid limbo, so to speak.

Do YOU like to undock?
kerstman18
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-05-07 11:59:56 UTC
Julius Rigel wrote:
kerstman18 wrote:
I am unsure what exactly is a game mechanic.
You're taking game design at the university level, and nobody has explained to you the term "game mechanics"?

No offense, but maybe you should look for a university with a proper game design department?

Anyway, a game mechanic, as the name implies, is any mechanism (rule in the software) that defines or restricts what you can do within the game. In EVE, there are loads and loads of mechanics that define what we can do, but most of them are designed in a very natural manner, in such a way as to give the game that coveted "sandbox" feeling.

For example, a game mechanic in EVE is the "warp to" mechanic. You select a destination, which can be almost anything that shows up on your overview, and you select "warp to". The game then puts your ship into a "warping" state, and points your ship towards the object, increases your speed GREATLY, and then decreases your speed back to zero when you're close to that object.

What I like about this mechanic in EVE is that although warping is in practice very necessary to get from one place to the other, it isn't required, and the mechanism doesn't do anything special to your ship beyond flagging it as "in warp", which prevents you from using certain modules, and also prevents you from adjusting your speed and heading manually. That's the brilliant part. If you want, you can fly normally from one place to another, there's no artificial barrier preventing you from travelling between A and B in a system on your sub-warp engines, it just takes a long time.

A good, solid example of this is the two stations orbiting the fourth moon of the fourth planet in the Jita solar system. The two stations are located about 1 000KM away from each other, so with a fast ship like a frigate you can actually fly from one station to the other in a couple of minutes, and the game allows you to do that.

To contrast with this, take for example jumping (for instance through a stargate). This is a different game mechanic that serves a similar purpose to warping. Jumping takes your ship object and removes it from the game environment, then triggers an unloading and loading sequence where the solar system you're in is dumped off your screen, your ship is placed into another game environment (the destination system), and your screen is fed the background and objects of your new location before you regain control.

Unlike warping, this game mechanic does something drastic to your state within the game. It changes your game state, including the number that describes which solar system you're in, and your local coordinates within that solar system. Also unlike warping, there is no alternative to jumping. You have to change your game session to get from one solar system to the next, and there simply is no other way to do it.

This leads to some interesting quirks in the game engine. When these two game mechanics start interacting with each other, or more precisely don't interact with each other, an interesting thing happens:

Once upon a time, there was a team of intrepid young adventurers. They were playing around with their warp drives, testing the limits and boundaries of the game mechanics, and they found a way to warp farther than the celestial objects in the solar system. This lead to them warping many many astronomical units away from the star and planets in the solar system, and after a while they had gotten so far that they could visibly see their "you are here" marker on the star map having moved away from the dot that indicates the solar system. Indeed, they managed to warp so far that they were located on top of a different solar system dot. But because they had not changed session by using a stargate or other jumping device, they were still within the game environment of the original solar system they had departed from.

If I come across the original post that these guys made, I'll make sure to edit in a link. But at the moment I'm still looking.

Edit: I've found a copy of the video they made about this story. Not only does it show off some really cool mechanisms that CCP later "fixed" by changing certain game mechanics, but it also shows off the (rather nostalgic for some of us) rustic, janky look of EVE pre-Trinity.

A Deep Space Odyssey - EVE Online (Youtube)


I am applying to it, not on it yet...are you always like this?
NHTV Breda is also a highly respected so maybe you should stop talking **** constantly.

I'm just asking because it seems game mechanics have a vague definition. And English not being my primary language is not making it easy to understand.
Rual Storge
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-05-07 12:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rual Storge
kerstman18 wrote:


I am applying to it, not on it yet...are you always like this?
NHTV Breda is also a highly respected so maybe you should stop talking **** constantly.

I'm just asking because it seems game mechanics have a vague definition. And English not being my primary language is not making it easy to understand.



De NHTV is 8 km van mij vandaan. In SSE had je een campje van mij moeten joinen, is brilliante manier van campen. Kom je uit regio Breda? Als je 1 game mechanic moet kiezen zou ik voor de dicter launcher gaan. Deze is relatief uniek. Als je voor een serie moet gaan zou ik Hemmo Camp pakken hieronder:


I call it a Hemmo Camp + dictor:

4 pipe system where X = Random system name:

X (1) + X (2) + X (3) + X (4)


Scout at 1 & at 4

Drag bubble 30km of gate full of cans on 2 > 3 gate and 3> 2 gate

When there is target in 4, fleet moves to 2. When there is target in 1 fleet moves to 3.

So you target will always see a empty local on jump in untill he is in warp.

When target has jumped wait 10-15 sec, jump to target system en go to cans to kill him

Essential is having a dicter to bubble.


Why this game mechanic: It comebines a few billiant game mechanics and shows the essence of eve: Sandboxiness

Drag bubble on its self is a good game machanic, the dicter bubbles is also a brillian mechanic (and uniek). Combined it creates a deathtrap ala perfect!

When you use this, i would like to see a copy of your assighnment

/Hemmo Paskiainen
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-05-07 12:28:02 UTC
kerstman18 wrote:
Intresting idea's so far! Doing my essay about either the market or local sounds very intresting and fun.

Is the market considered one mechanism? ( this might be a stupid question to Roll )


From what I know, a game mechanic would be considered the rule work behind that which You see on the screen.

The damage formular for certain weapon systems and how the damage is applied to other ships for example would be considered a game mechanic.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
kerstman18
Doomheim
#33 - 2013-05-07 13:20:19 UTC
Thank you guys, that was the info i was looking for :),

Regio Eindhoven trouwens, bedankt voor de hulp.
Julius Rigel
#34 - 2013-05-07 17:15:13 UTC
kerstman18 wrote:
I am applying to it, not on it yet...are you always like this?
NHTV Breda is also a highly respected so maybe you should stop talking **** constantly.
I'm not trying to be rude, and I appologise if that is how you perceived something I said. I must have misread that line in your original post. Honest mistake.

I do hope the rest of my reply was helpful to you.

Do YOU like to undock?
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#35 - 2013-05-09 01:21:09 UTC
kerstman18 wrote:
Thank you guys, that was the info i was looking for :),


Sigh. When I went to university it was pretty much understood that we had to do our own homework and research... this younger generation, I don't know.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#36 - 2013-05-09 02:00:09 UTC
kerstman18 wrote:
Hi all eve players,

I am currently trying to get a spot on my local UNI in the game architecture and design department.
In order to get higher on the list of applicants I am expected to make some assignments and I would like YOUR help.




Sorry brother. I don't do my kid's homework for them and I'm sure as hell not going to do yours.

Mr Epeen Cool
kerstman18
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-05-14 19:47:52 UTC
I did not ask you to do my homework Roll just asked what your favorite game mechanic was.


This is what I came up with if anyone is intrested. Not about eve but portal 2.

The assignment was:

Using formal English and professional lexicon, please write a 500-word essay (incuding titles) tackling the following two topics:
1.An analysis of one of more unique gameplay mechanic(s) from one video game (the game can be freely chosen, provided that the game was published between January 1st 2007 and the present day)
2.A personal judgment of the positive aspects and the shortcomings of the design decisions relevant to your chosen mechanic(s).

Please let me know what you think! It also looks better in word and with images Cool

Design Assessment

Portal gun
For my assessment I have chosen a game mechanic from the puzzle shooter Portal 2. In Portal 2 the main character is set out to complete mind boggling puzzles in so-called test chambers using different kinds of techniques and tactics. The game features a very good story and plenty of well-written characters that really come to life the more you progress through the game. Combine all this with a great environment to complete those puzzles in, and you have a very good game in your hands. The multiplayer aspect of portal 2 that was non-existent in the original will give you the ability to play with friends, and the ability to create your own puzzles will keep you occupied for hours after you have finished the amazing single-player campaign.
The environment provides you with different cubes and switches, but you will be hard pressed to finish any of the puzzles without the game’s most important piece of equipment, the Portal Gun. This gun allows you to fire two different colored portals against certain walls, allowing you to instantaneously pass from the one to the other regardless of distance or obstacles.

This unique mechanic can be used in so many ways with the other objects and mechanics in-game that even though it might take you a while to complete a test-chamber, it feels very rewarding when you do. Whether it is used to simply get to the high ground of a certain puzzle-room (by placing a portal on a wall next to you and shooting the counterpart on a wall upstairs) or used to send deadly beams of lasers down upon your unsuspecting teammate, it is incredibly useful and fun throughout the entire game. This unique and creative way of transporting characters and objects is the thriving force behind the entire game, hence it name, portal.
It is interesting to see how such a simple mechanic can be used in so many ways. The portals in the game will be used most for just moving yourself around the test course, but you are also able to carry momentum through the portals. This feature gives a depth to the puzzles and certainly adds more options when making your own puzzles. Besides, what is more fun than shooting yourself across those rooms at high speeds?
It is difficult to come up with many negatives about the portal mechanism implemented in portal 2. While playing the game I sometimes found it frustrating that the portals you fire with your portal gun can only be placed on very specific squares of wall. Whether this was done to keep the puzzles challenging or if it is because portal 2 uses an outdated engine (portal uses a seven year old engine!), I would have enjoyed placing portals on a broader selection of walls or even liquids.

The portal gun was one of the most innovative mechanics I have seen this decade and valve proved this by building an entire game around it. Even though portal 2’s ending did not leave much to my imagination, I will be waiting for a part three.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-05-14 20:27:39 UTC
The billboards!!!
Posta Wifda Mosta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-05-14 20:45:07 UTC
Most interesting mechanic I think is the ability to pick up a frozen corpse and add to my collection. A bit morbid but interesting.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#40 - 2013-05-15 19:31:26 UTC
Rose Hips wrote:

[CTRL]-[Q]uest gives you a secret Quest. Try it!



Alt Shift Q

Ctrl Q hasnt been the default key for years now

The Drake is a Lie
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