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A question about Machariel tank for lvl 4's in minmatar space...
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stoicfaux
#41 - 2011-11-01 17:00:23 UTC
JitaJane wrote:
Fitting skills are important that is why I invested in them. The previous fit (the troll remember?) did not fit on all 5s either. This however does. By using Pith L and a SBA. Something I mentioned on the first page of the thread. Of course at that point the Cap booster is superfluos because you have sufficient cap to manage aggro with your guns. Beyond that a Mach without an AB seems a bit wasteful as it's superior speed is one of it's greatest assets...


According to EFT, the troll fit would require two RF Gryos to fit. (Or a 1% implant.) So the "troll's" concept was good, but his math was off just a smidgen. Not worth an accusation of troll, IMO.

Right, anyway, my point of view is that "troll" fit had sound reasoning behind the choices and the setup has enough leeway (and OP has the budget) to use alternative modules to create an equivalent fit without painful trade-offs.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#42 - 2011-11-01 17:17:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tenris Anis
Haoibuni wrote:
7 x 800mm auto's
Autotargeter (gets you an extra couple of lockable targets)

Pith B-type X-Large Shield Booster (not too pricey, will cap you out very quickly but you pulse it)
2 x Gist X-type Mission specific Shield hardeners (again not too pricey)
Core C-type Afterburner (again not too pricey)
Heavy Cap Booster w/ 800's (this is what a lot of the other fits in this thread lack, dont go for cap stability, go for one of these. You actively fly a mach so actively click a few buttons whilst your actively flying. That way you can use uber rigs - see below)

4 x Gyro (one needs to be Repulic Fleet to fit
3 x Tracking Enh

Rigs

Large Projectile metastatis Adjuster II (yes tech 2 - it's cheap. It improves your tracking which the fail CCC, safeguard fits can't)
Large Projectile Ambit Extension II (yes tech 2 - it's cheap. It improves your fall off which the fail CCC, safeguard fits can't)
Large ionic Field Projector I (it improves your targetting range to 97km)

With those rigs you can be targetting something further out and have it half dead (thanks to the fall off rig 73 km @ all lvl 5) by the time the fail CCC, safeguard rig setups are even locking it.

Forget about cap stability if you fly a mach for missions, use a cap booster and use the abouve rigs and thank me later.

You can ofc get a better Shield booster or more shineys Gyro's, TE but you are then making yourself a gank magnet. The above is unlikely to get ganked.

If your not too bothered about the fall off rig, you can change the tracking rig to tech I and fit a Collision Accelerator rig. You lose 4km falloff, gain 10dps and lose a bit of tracking.


While in eft great, in practise cap boosters are for people with not enough isk for a gist booster ;-)
And while in eft great, 100 extra dps will not save any real time, as most targets will die in just the same amount of time, because they need the same amount of volleys. Still, forget about cap stability is a good advice, you won´t need it, because you have a speed and dps tank.

But I really like that targetting rig in your setup.

Remove insurance.
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#43 - 2011-11-01 17:48:26 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
JitaJane wrote:
Fitting skills are important that is why I invested in them. The previous fit (the troll remember?) did not fit on all 5s either. This however does. By using Pith L and a SBA. Something I mentioned on the first page of the thread. Of course at that point the Cap booster is superfluos because you have sufficient cap to manage aggro with your guns. Beyond that a Mach without an AB seems a bit wasteful as it's superior speed is one of it's greatest assets...


According to EFT, the troll fit would require two RF Gryos to fit. (Or a 1% implant.) So the "troll's" concept was good, but his math was off just a smidgen. Not worth an accusation of troll, IMO.

Right, anyway, my point of view is that "troll" fit had sound reasoning behind the choices and the setup has enough leeway (and OP has the budget) to use alternative modules to create an equivalent fit without painful trade-offs.

Five guesses:
1. You are using a medium cap booster and not the heavy listed.
2. you were using a Pith B L not an XL
3.You left the utility high empty
4. You have your EFT set to your implants (cool plants by the way)
5. Someone's EFT is malfunctioning.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

stoicfaux
#44 - 2011-11-01 18:18:52 UTC
JitaJane wrote:

Five guesses:
1. You are using a medium cap booster and not the heavy listed.
2. you were using a Pith B L not an XL
3.You left the utility high empty
4. You have your EFT set to your implants (cool plants by the way)
5. Someone's EFT is malfunctioning.


Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
EFT says 743.25 / 750 CPU.
pyfa says 743.3 / 750 CPU

However an Auto Targeting I uses 1 CPU, whereas the AutoTargeting II uses 35 CPU. That might be the discrepancy you're seeing.



[Machariel, Level 4 copy 1]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Gist X-Type Explosion Dampening Field
Gist X-Type Ballistic Deflection Field
Core C-Type 100MN Afterburner

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
Auto Targeting System I

Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension II
Large Ionic Field Projector I

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Leetha Layne
#45 - 2011-11-02 04:26:05 UTC
Have any of you cap booster afficiandos ever flown a Mach in PVE? It is just not needed. Now PvP is a different story.
stoicfaux
#46 - 2011-11-02 13:18:52 UTC
Leetha Layne wrote:
Have any of you cap booster afficiandos ever flown a Mach in PVE? It is just not needed. Now PvP is a different story.

Well, do you think the OP is going to take your word that the Mach won't run out of cap and die spectacularly in a mission? I'm thinking the OP is looking for some reassurance until he's had some experience flying the Mach.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Mythradites
Dead and Delirious
Brotherhood of Spacers
#47 - 2011-11-02 18:27:08 UTC
Since I have read this thread I have changed up my fit and tactics.
I used to have a dcii and I used to sit in place to run lvl 4s. Now I've been doing this for a month with the Mach. Using the sit n shoot tactic I had to warp out of a few of the missions. Now I use a faction AB and can perma run it along with 4 gyros for the extra gank. For rigs I use a damage rig and a falloff rig with an em resist rig (going to change it out soon when I find something better) now I have yet to warp out or need to constantly run my booster. I am still using t1 guns but will have It soon. Dps is still up there with the t1s. I will post my fit when I get home (at work still) it has worked for me and could use a small tweek here or there.
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#48 - 2011-11-02 18:48:28 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Leetha Layne wrote:
Have any of you cap booster afficiandos ever flown a Mach in PVE? It is just not needed. Now PvP is a different story.

Well, do you think the OP is going to take your word that the Mach won't run out of cap and die spectacularly in a mission? I'm thinking the OP is looking for some reassurance until he's had some experience flying the Mach.


Running out of boosters will do the same thing to him. If you want to be careful, just leave some low slots for cap flux and replace them sooner or later with tracking enhancers as you start to know the ship better ... actually it is close to impossible to die in a mach as you can even outrun frigs with just a faction ab.

Remove insurance.
Haoibuni
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#49 - 2011-11-03 00:31:57 UTC
Lol at the t wats here thinking I'm a troll. I'm not. I posted to help. You are in here pontificating on mach fits and giving poor advice about the rigs). So I'm letting the OP know.

Cap rigs are simply wrong on a mach as succintly summed up by stoicfaux: "uses a Cap Booster (one module) to free up three cap rigs for offensive rigs".

And I'm not an EFT warrior neither. Thats what I fly.

And to whoever said, you shouldn't be firing your guns at 70-odd km. Just lol. You go into a mission and kill everything with your eyes half-shut as its so easy and then theres one or two stragglers sometimes that might be 80km out. Obviously, you hit "approach" and start firing. What are you suggesting, you deliberetly not fire until you get a bit closer.

And to the guy who wrote "in practise cap boosters are for people with not enough isk for a gist booster ;-)
"

No they arn't. The Gist does not have nowhere near as much repair output. In some missions I need my Pith booster running for a solid minute (Worlds Collide) until I kill all the high DPS. So I am tanking 700 odd DPS with the Pith and not 500 odd with the Gist. Plus as I mentioned the Pith is much cheaper as I dont wanna be a gank magnet.
Haoibuni
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#50 - 2011-11-03 00:47:57 UTC
"and the tracking rig is completely unnecessary with the Machariel's speed to both dictate range and minimize enemy transversal"

Whatever floats your boat, I guess. I just hit orbit, F1 and carry on watching the TV. If you are doing all the active flying bit then, yeah, maybe there are better rigs - can't think what though.
Zilero
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2011-11-03 05:09:02 UTC
[Machariel, Mach L4]
Damage Control II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Federation Navy 100MN Afterburner
Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Auto Targeting System II

Large Projectile Ambit Extension II
Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II
Large Ionic Field Projector I


Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

The above fit has been tested in 200+ missions in minmatar space. It works perfectly. Rarely do I have to use the cap booster, and most of the times its because I was an idiot and got full aggro. I usually pack 5 800 boosters in the booster and 5 in the cargohold + assorted ammo.

This thing will instapop frigs at 60 km using T1 ammo. It will kill stuff so fast at range you will have a hard time locking it fast enough.

Its also NOT stupidly expensive, its not using pith-type or gist-type modules and is not a gank magnet.

That said, you do want to: a) Blitz Worlds Collide. b) NOT run the AE bonus room. c) Be careful with the damsel in distress aggro (trust me here lol).

Other than that, go forth and make isk!
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2011-11-03 08:08:01 UTC
Personally I test my shield fits in Amarr space because it is the least kind to them. I figure when they run Sansha Blockade they work. If you can beat Angels in a shield tank congratulations you are not a FAS baby. Curious though how Maureen turned out with her new boat. Honestly the Mach is the only thing that made me love HiSec life again. To me the thing with flying this beast is having all of that damage and maneuverability available to you. Anything else and you can tank a snake and AFK.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Maureen Biologist
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2011-11-03 09:49:52 UTC
heya guys, cheers for the many responses again.

I have to admit that I'm still sneaking in the gallente bs skill on the char i'm gonna be running missions with, 1 day left on cruiser 4 atm.

I was gonna fly my main over and try the mach out but I just havent really had the time. I've been running some incursions so that i can ditch the gist b-type large and pick up an X-L booster as people seemed to suggest that was the best idea.

I have to say i'm not a huge fan of cap boosters, but I can see the argument for using them. I will try the SMC setup first, assuming I dont die in a fire i will try the dps rigs and cap booster.
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