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Beyond the new Battlecruisers: Identifying potential Starship "Gaps" / Player Design

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Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#61 - 2011-11-02 23:30:18 UTC
Grimmash wrote:
In to support "normal" drone carrier ships. I would love a ship with 1/2 high slots for weapons that could field 10 or 15 drones. From a flavor point of view, Gallente being the "drone lords", but still fielding the same number as everyone else is... annoying.

Also, a dedicated, bonused Exploration BC would be awesome. The main thing stopping me from going on deep exploration runs is the need to be close enough to my combat ships.


Hmm... well a pocket carrier is one thing... but what you propose here would be a real game-changer... there would need to be some significant ANTI-drone options for other non-Gallente ships if you did that... could be a real tricky thing to pull because is would throw off game balance for all drones...

Signatures should be used responsibly...
mkint
#62 - 2011-11-02 23:44:51 UTC  |  Edited by: mkint
Gogela wrote:
Grimmash wrote:
In to support "normal" drone carrier ships. I would love a ship with 1/2 high slots for weapons that could field 10 or 15 drones. From a flavor point of view, Gallente being the "drone lords", but still fielding the same number as everyone else is... annoying.

Also, a dedicated, bonused Exploration BC would be awesome. The main thing stopping me from going on deep exploration runs is the need to be close enough to my combat ships.


Hmm... well a pocket carrier is one thing... but what you propose here would be a real game-changer... there would need to be some significant ANTI-drone options for other non-Gallente ships if you did that... could be a real tricky thing to pull because is would throw off game balance for all drones...

Or limit what drones it can hold, just like they are doing with Fighters. Say, a battleship/mini-capital that has maybe only 4 highslots (no hardpoints) and a drone bay that can only hold heavies and/or sentries (or maybe any drone that is 25m3). Maybe has a bonus to drone MWD velocity and HP, and a reduction to non-MWD speeds (i.e. drones can get to their targets quicker, but are easier to shoot down once they are there.) Not sure if it should get a mini-triage or not, but I'd imagine it shouldn't be much stronger RR than a logi, if not a little weaker. Not sure if it should be allowed into mission/incursion deadspaces, or be PVP only. Maybe give it a 250k m3 ship bay, just to emphasize it's carrier-ness.

Of course, it would be even nicer if drones were fixed to be less a pain in the ass.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#63 - 2011-11-03 00:05:06 UTC
XL Destroyer. Ships roughly destroyer sized, but mounting only a single but extremely oversized XL weapon module.

Aside from a fitting bonus for the XL weapon, there should be a synergy-bonus, that enhances the damage when several XL destroyers focus their fire on a target.

A bit like the Ion-Frigate from the Homeworld-games.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
mkint
#64 - 2011-11-03 00:07:43 UTC
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
XL Destroyer. Ships roughly destroyer sized, but mounting only a single but extremely oversized XL weapon module.

Aside from a fitting bonus for the XL weapon, there should be a synergy-bonus, that enhances the damage when several XL destroyers focus their fire on a target.

A bit like the Ion-Frigate from the Homeworld-games.


Love it. Love everything about it.

Except the capacitor issues.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#65 - 2011-11-03 00:49:37 UTC
mkint wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Grimmash wrote:
In to support "normal" drone carrier ships. I would love a ship with 1/2 high slots for weapons that could field 10 or 15 drones. From a flavor point of view, Gallente being the "drone lords", but still fielding the same number as everyone else is... annoying.

Also, a dedicated, bonused Exploration BC would be awesome. The main thing stopping me from going on deep exploration runs is the need to be close enough to my combat ships.


Hmm... well a pocket carrier is one thing... but what you propose here would be a real game-changer... there would need to be some significant ANTI-drone options for other non-Gallente ships if you did that... could be a real tricky thing to pull because is would throw off game balance for all drones...

Or limit what drones it can hold, just like they are doing with Fighters. Say, a battleship/mini-capital that has maybe only 4 highslots (no hardpoints) and a drone bay that can only hold heavies and/or sentries (or maybe any drone that is 25m3). Maybe has a bonus to drone MWD velocity and HP, and a reduction to non-MWD speeds (i.e. drones can get to their targets quicker, but are easier to shoot down once they are there.) Not sure if it should get a mini-triage or not, but I'd imagine it shouldn't be much stronger RR than a logi, if not a little weaker. Not sure if it should be allowed into mission/incursion deadspaces, or be PVP only. Maybe give it a 250k m3 ship bay, just to emphasize it's carrier-ness.

Of course, it would be even nicer if drones were fixed to be less a pain in the ass.


This ^ ...is along the lines of thinking we would need to do to make Grimmas's idea plausible. Maybe fitting those mods makes the ship using the drones loose all shield or something during use too... maybe it limits how fast it can warp... like a 30 sec penalty of 1/4 align to warp speed or something too... otherwise these ships would go to standoff range and assign drones to a ganker... risking only massive #s of drones but not their ship.

Deviana Sevidon wrote:
XL Destroyer. Ships roughly destroyer sized, but mounting only a single but extremely oversized XL weapon module.

Aside from a fitting bonus for the XL weapon, there should be a synergy-bonus, that enhances the damage when several XL destroyers focus their fire on a target.

A bit like the Ion-Frigate from the Homeworld-games.



+2 - also like everything about it...

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Amro One
One.
#66 - 2011-11-03 02:07:10 UTC
How about a hauler that carries 2-3 rigged BS in it.

Tired of solo flying BS around eve.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#67 - 2011-11-03 02:15:28 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
what about a medium size freighter; sure you can use a orca but i mean a freighter class same size as a orca but replacing the corp hangar and ore cargo hold for a nice 250 k of cargo space and maybe a few utility slots or rigs but not capable of interacting with object in space like a normal freighter


I'd rather go the other way and get a combat orca -- drop the ore hold and increase the ship hanger size. Also drop the mining skill requirements and replace with some combat oriented leadership skills.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Haulin Gneiss
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2011-11-03 02:42:01 UTC
Grimmash wrote:
In to support "normal" drone carrier ships. I would love a ship with 1/2 high slots for weapons that could field 10 or 15 drones. From a flavor point of view, Gallente being the "drone lords", but still fielding the same number as everyone else is... annoying.

Also, a dedicated, bonused Exploration BC would be awesome. The main thing stopping me from going on deep exploration runs is the need to be close enough to my combat ships.


get a t3 works just fine
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2011-11-03 03:17:15 UTC
There is no need for other ships as there is need for new things to do.

Every useful ship either has a role or a niche, but there aren't niches and roles for all the ships: this is the problem. There are a lot of t1 and even t2 ships that are underutilized because situations in EVE are not enough varied.

New ships are cool and CCP must put them in the game just because they promised, but the game needs other things now.
Ariel Dawn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#70 - 2011-11-03 03:29:50 UTC
T2 Battlecruiser designed around an increasing-damage-over-time weapon system to act as an anti-capital ship accessible to most that in a fleet fight would become dangerous should it be left alone. The longer the ship keeps firing at it's target, the more and more damage it would be doing. Should have a heavy tank, abysmal tracking, inability to use against structures but ridiculous DPS when firing for a long time (8-10+ min?)

Or perhaps some ship specializing in reducing resistances, increasing cap usage for enemies.
reamau
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2011-11-03 03:47:27 UTC
Probably see more of this kind of discussion over on the Features and Ideas board.

Some of my own suggestions have been for variety in industrials- they idea that there should be a lot more hulls and fittings for industrials, instead of warships or dedicated specialty ships- why not a more generic series of hulls that can be fitted for mining, or for cargo, or for defense, etc. Don't have to be 'uber', the point was more for variety. Make a range of em, some can be dogs if they are cheap, and keep the really good ones expensive. If anything should have variety, it would be the civilian merchant market.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=143015#post143015


One of my corp-mates had an idea for Q-ships, which are basically armed merchant ships with a lot of firepower. Usually not very defensive, but a lot of hitting. The biggest trick would be to make not detectable as such- it LOOKS like a freighter, but hits like a BS. Again, cost would be a trick.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=65114#post65114

Inferno: almost as fun as chewing used medical syringes.

Myxx
The Scope
#72 - 2011-11-03 04:01:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
A dedicated industrial mothership, ergo, a freighter hull but has in-hull manufacturing platforms, in-hull science/rnd platforms/cargo hold/whatever else. can build subcaps/t2 subcaps. capitals would still require a lowsec/nullsec pos, however.

in essence, a beefed up orca/rorqual for the manufacturing side of industry.

a dedicated gas mining barge for mining and finding. . . gas. maybe even reuse the primae/noctis hull for it?

a dedicated exploration command ship, an orca with the potential to hold 1x bs, 1x bc and 2-3x cruisers/strat cruisers, fits a cov ops cloak to well... cloak with, mostly for truly solo wh bases. kind of like smallholdings proposal, except mobile and for wormholes

a dedicated bc-bs exploration ship, packed to the brim with all of the needed sensors/salvage sensors, defenses, electronics and such for surviving in a WH.

pocket carriers, battleships/refitted orcas capable of fielding fighters.
Ardamalis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#73 - 2011-11-03 04:53:05 UTC
-Gas Harvesting Ship
-Corvettes (possibly tech 2 destroyers with medium sized guns)
-Heavy Bomber (larger sized stealth bomber, black ops perhaps)
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg
Doomheim
#74 - 2011-11-03 05:10:21 UTC
A Nomad/exporation ship as at present there is no ship that can be used for long extended stays in deep nullsec.

The T3s are the closest but the ammo ships run out quickly and the Legion is terrible

Cannot fit a cyno as its for solo exporation not for bringing in cap fleets


or if no new ship allow tech III modules to be changed in space. But as changing modules needs a hangar have then all implanted but the ship can only run certain ones. If you want to activate modules you have to turn others off and have full cap to turn them on



Its main function is Nomadic/exploration and not 23 hour afk cloaker so increase the range the cloak turns off to 90-100k if someone gets to close

Standing in for Karn Dulake who was banned for saying bad words
Grimmash
New Jovian Exploration Department
New Jovian Collective
#75 - 2011-11-06 05:19:26 UTC
Haulin Gneiss wrote:
Grimmash wrote:
In to support "normal" drone carrier ships. I would love a ship with 1/2 high slots for weapons that could field 10 or 15 drones. From a flavor point of view, Gallente being the "drone lords", but still fielding the same number as everyone else is... annoying.

Also, a dedicated, bonused Exploration BC would be awesome. The main thing stopping me from going on deep exploration runs is the need to be close enough to my combat ships.


get a t3 works just fine


True, but it seems odd that the exploration progression (in isk values) is 5m (frig) > 20m-80m (covops) > 1B+ (T3). Most other progressions don't drop a step on that log curve of investment. If I am failing at understanding the recons, let me know, but they seem to always lack the ability to be truly self sufficient or effective in comparison to the risk/reward ratio at the core of Eve.

For drone boats, here is an idea: High slot module that allows additional drones to be controlled, much like the cap ship module (with which i am not familiar), while reducing drone control range. That way pilots would be trading weapon dps for drone dps, and would either lose range on dps (controlling too many sentries and light/med) or have to balance more drones against effective range.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#76 - 2011-11-06 05:54:33 UTC
Delta Jax wrote:
I have to say one idea I've heard recently that makes a bit of since is the concept of escort carriers.

Half the size of a full carrier, maybe a reduction to drone control units fitting cost as well.

Of course there would be limitations such as not able to launch fighters , or maybe as many, remove/limit logistic bonuses and jump drive.

As I said, it's an idea I've heard thrown around that I think deserves some discussion


This ^^^

T2 Versions could be the future blackops portal ships.

Then we can fix the BLOPS and make them combat ships instead of Mini Titans and useful for few things else.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Donn Quixote
D'0h
#77 - 2011-11-06 08:10:47 UTC
Why not give freighters / JF's slots? You can reduce the base cargo hold to offset people adding cargo expanders. Maybe even allow jump freighters to have guns so they can fend off a couple frigates. CCP shouldn't consider adding another cargo class ship until these ships are rightfully given slots. The only other ships in the game without slots are shuttles iirc.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#78 - 2011-11-06 17:26:32 UTC
Donn Quixote wrote:
Why not give freighters / JF's slots? You can reduce the base cargo hold to offset people adding cargo expanders. Maybe even allow jump freighters to have guns so they can fend off a couple frigates. CCP shouldn't consider adding another cargo class ship until these ships are rightfully given slots. The only other ships in the game without slots are shuttles iirc.


I wonder if CCP is watching this thread and if they are thinking about any of this... there are some really good ideas here...

Signatures should be used responsibly...