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Why do the empires train capsuleers?

Author
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-05-06 12:56:55 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
I highly doubt that Amarr boss would be capsuleer as their faith does not allow cloning. Turning into capsuleer kinda involves dying in the process.


Jamyl isn't a true capsuleer, but she is a clone of the original. Basically, she wanted to cheat through the ritual suicides, but things didn't go quite as expected.
Axel Kurki
Aseyakone
#22 - 2013-05-06 13:25:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Axel Kurki
Carniflex wrote:
Kirjava wrote:
The Gallente Federation is lead by Roden, a Capsuleer, as is the Ammarian Emprie lead by Sarum, a Capsuleer.

I can't remember about the Minmatar, but I think Heth is mortal.



I highly doubt that Amarr boss would be capsuleer as their faith does not allow cloning. Turning into capsuleer kinda involves dying in the process.

Technically, installing implants by invasive surgery into living patients is a possibility, though a more risky way to produce capsuleers. This way is mentioned in the short story Jovian Wetgrave. There are several references to people being capsuleers before the capsule and the clone were married together. Additionally, there are several mentions (such as Cult of Tetrimon capsuleers) of non-cloning capsuleers in relatively "modern" days.

So, yes, canonically Jamyl is a capsuleer. If we ignore the whole "committed a suicide and was cloned" thing ("which is officially spun as "a miracle"), most of the Heirs are quite old, so if they got the implants, they probably got them quite a long time ago (as capsuleer training is demanding, probably best done young).

Ages of Amarr Royalty (AD 23236 is YC 0, it is now YC 115):
- The Empress: Jamyl is 103 (Born YC 12)
- House Ardishapur: Yonis is 139. (Born AD 23212)
- House Kador: We don't know how old Uriam Kador is.
- House Kor-Azor: Aritcio is 108. (He had is 99th birthday in YC106)
- House Sarum: Merimeth is 66 (Born in YC 49)
- House Tash-Murkon: You don't ask a lady's age. (We don't know how old Catiz is - his father was born in AD 23176 and would be 176 by now, Catiz is the youngest child.)
- Khanid Kingdom: Khanid II is 380. (Born AD 22972, rumoured to have been cloned.)

Edit (this paragraph only): The threat of mindlock upon decanting from the capsule would have probably not have been a problem to the Amarr Heirs for the purposes of the ritual suicide, since they were all expected to die. (Except Jamyl, who the House Elder knew would cheat and have a clone.)

However, dying to become a capsuleer: This is probably the easiest way, and most regular capsuleers are expected to be pod-killed anyway at some point of their career. Independent capsuleers are also somewhat extralegal, so the deceased status of their mortal bodies probably makes some of the paperwork easier.
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#23 - 2013-05-06 14:18:32 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
Kirjava wrote:
The Gallente Federation is lead by Roden, a Capsuleer, as is the Ammarian Emprie lead by Sarum, a Capsuleer.

I can't remember about the Minmatar, but I think Heth is mortal.



I highly doubt that Amarr boss would be capsuleer as their faith does not allow cloning. Turning into capsuleer kinda involves dying in the process.

In the novels, she is a Capsuleer. She is Immortal, she is a clone and the original died when she lost the succession trials.

She is also schizophrenic, mentally unstable and falls into bouts of delusional megalomania. Basicaly she's a yandere.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2013-05-06 17:51:46 UTC
Just to clear up a couple things here:

- Jamyl is a capsuleer, as were the other four heirs.

- The bit about dieing to become a capsuleer is a new addition to the PF, having appeared for a short while as a brief mention in the newbie tutorial before a subsequent patch removed it. Aside from a possible very indirect reference in the newest trailer - the exact meaning of which isn't even entirely clear, and may not even refer to an induction-by-death practice - it has not reappeared in PF since then.
- Most people I spoke to when the reference was in the tutorial treated it as a new addition to the capsuleering process, not present in the induction of anyone prior to that point for reasons Axel pointed out above. Given its subsequent removal, the exact canonicity of this process at any point is unclear.

- The Amarr do not ban cloning outright. Only cloning of the direct royal families is outright prohibited under the Sacred Flesh doctrine.
- There is a mission text that suggests that the disapproval factor for cloning a given Holder varies depending on how far they are from the Emperor's throne. Extrapolating from this, a major Holder, one who might potentially add their lineage to a royal family being cloned would be a huge scandal. A minor Holder, unlikely to reach a position of importance for several generations if even at all, would merely produce deep frowns and possibly some jockeying for position from rival Holders. A commoner or slave being cloned would barely be noticed.
- There is PF that feature Amarr - even Holders - making use of the cloning technology without the issue of the Sacred Flesh doctrine coming up at all.
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