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Sweet, no more grav sites!
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Phaderift
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#61 - 2013-05-02 23:01:09 UTC
Azemar wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
My understanding of the new discovery scanner was that it was exactly equivalent to the anomaly scanner, potentially plus sites you'd already scanned down/found. I honestly don't see this being any kind of impedance to a WH miner because they'll just close their static + inbounds and keep an eye out for K162s...

-Liang



As someone who is part of a mainly EU corp in a C4 (with a C2 static), we only have about 7 members. Most of the time I'm on, no one else is. I also don't have any alts. As a solo explorer who mines from time to time, this really kills me.

What can I do? Nothing. They really can't let this go through. It kills the small-time explorer and actually aids the large organizations.



wait so as you are mining you can't keep an eye on your system/discovery scanner as you mine? Or you know you could always put a bubble at the grav site warp in and toss out a drone cloud in it to decloak things that wish to harm you and then mine away from it? or mine in a venture and use that utility high for a probe launcher? or move to a system that can be entirely on dscan from anywhere in system.. usually when people come off the hole they will show up on dscan for 5-10 seconds as the move off and cloak up, though you would have to be paying attention and semi lucky to catch them on dscan in this way .. or mashing it every couple seconds. Hmm what other things can be done to adapt to this? Fit ecm/ecm drones and maybe agility mods? the only thing that wont have a 4-7 second targeting delay is bombers or black ops ( but they can't warp cloaked ) and bombers are not known for having great sensor str .. jam them with a multispec or ecm drones as you align out then warp once it lands?

the only arguments i have heard are from people who are mad that they can't semi afk mine any more, or that there might be added defensive setup steps they need to take ... or that you might need to find people to play with in order to survive in the dangerous lands of WH/Nullsec/lowsec space. Honestly .. adapt or get podded? HTFU? figure it out, there are tools in the game that will allow you to keep doing what you are doing .... you just need to learn to use them. Hell if people spent half the time figuring out instead of complaining they would have nothing to complain about?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#62 - 2013-05-02 23:43:38 UTC
Azemar wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
My understanding of the new discovery scanner was that it was exactly equivalent to the anomaly scanner, potentially plus sites you'd already scanned down/found. I honestly don't see this being any kind of impedance to a WH miner because they'll just close their static + inbounds and keep an eye out for K162s...

-Liang



As someone who is part of a mainly EU corp in a C4 (with a C2 static), we only have about 7 members. Most of the time I'm on, no one else is. I also don't have any alts. As a solo explorer who mines from time to time, this really kills me.

What can I do? Nothing. They really can't let this go through. It kills the small-time explorer and actually aids the large organizations.


I have personally had no problems as a solo explorer.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Frying Doom
#63 - 2013-05-02 23:52:36 UTC
Phaderift wrote:
Azemar wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
My understanding of the new discovery scanner was that it was exactly equivalent to the anomaly scanner, potentially plus sites you'd already scanned down/found. I honestly don't see this being any kind of impedance to a WH miner because they'll just close their static + inbounds and keep an eye out for K162s...

-Liang



As someone who is part of a mainly EU corp in a C4 (with a C2 static), we only have about 7 members. Most of the time I'm on, no one else is. I also don't have any alts. As a solo explorer who mines from time to time, this really kills me.

What can I do? Nothing. They really can't let this go through. It kills the small-time explorer and actually aids the large organizations.



wait so as you are mining you can't keep an eye on your system/discovery scanner as you mine? Or you know you could always put a bubble at the grav site warp in and toss out a drone cloud in it to decloak things that wish to harm you and then mine away from it? or mine in a venture and use that utility high for a probe launcher? or move to a system that can be entirely on dscan from anywhere in system.. usually when people come off the hole they will show up on dscan for 5-10 seconds as the move off and cloak up, though you would have to be paying attention and semi lucky to catch them on dscan in this way .. or mashing it every couple seconds. Hmm what other things can be done to adapt to this? Fit ecm/ecm drones and maybe agility mods? the only thing that wont have a 4-7 second targeting delay is bombers or black ops ( but they can't warp cloaked ) and bombers are not known for having great sensor str .. jam them with a multispec or ecm drones as you align out then warp once it lands?

the only arguments i have heard are from people who are mad that they can't semi afk mine any more, or that there might be added defensive setup steps they need to take ... or that you might need to find people to play with in order to survive in the dangerous lands of WH/Nullsec/lowsec space. Honestly .. adapt or get podded? HTFU? figure it out, there are tools in the game that will allow you to keep doing what you are doing .... you just need to learn to use them. Hell if people spent half the time figuring out instead of complaining they would have nothing to complain about?

You don't mine do you?

People are adapting, they are GTFO of WHs. The risk vs reward is now screwed for WH mining, so why would anyone want to do it?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Phaderift
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#64 - 2013-05-03 00:03:40 UTC
actually, i do mine or atleast i used to. 4 perfect hulk pilots 1 hauling orca and 1 perfect boosting rorq/orca depending on where i am mining.. and TBH i never understood why anyone would mine in WH space .. you are either hauling constantly or refining at a greatly reduced rate.
Frying Doom
#65 - 2013-05-03 00:16:08 UTC
Phaderift wrote:
actually, i do mine or atleast i used to. 4 perfect hulk pilots 1 hauling orca and 1 perfect boosting rorq/orca depending on where i am mining.. and TBH i never understood why anyone would mine in WH space .. you are either hauling constantly or refining at a greatly reduced rate.

So you mine but not in WHs, then maybe you should take your own advice and bring your hulks and orca into a WH and mine after the changes come out, then tell people to HTFU.

For those of us in small corporations and alliances, in C1-C4s, the change removed our style of play.

Not that I can complain that much, by closing four of my accounts and selling of Ice and assets of those characters I am now plexed into 2017 and climbing Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Phaderift
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#66 - 2013-05-03 16:33:43 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Phaderift wrote:
actually, i do mine or atleast i used to. 4 perfect hulk pilots 1 hauling orca and 1 perfect boosting rorq/orca depending on where i am mining.. and TBH i never understood why anyone would mine in WH space .. you are either hauling constantly or refining at a greatly reduced rate.

So you mine but not in WHs, then maybe you should take your own advice and bring your hulks and orca into a WH and mine after the changes come out, then tell people to HTFU.

For those of us in small corporations and alliances, in C1-C4s, the change removed our style of play.

Not that I can complain that much, by closing four of my accounts and selling of Ice and assets of those characters I am now plexed into 2017 and climbing Lol



nah the logistical nightmares of moving large amounts of M3 in ore around is what stopped me from mining in WH space .. even with a rorq compressing., though i might sneak my mining op back out to null with all that trit super cap production looks like it might be more viable now. I hated compressing. Also We spoke at fan fest in the exploration round table, at least if your the gent im thinking of. FLy safe :p
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-05-04 20:29:51 UTC
At first i thought yay, no more combats to find miners.

But then i realised they will just go and mine in highsec instead
Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#68 - 2013-05-05 07:29:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Azemar
Phaderift wrote:
Azemar wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
My understanding of the new discovery scanner was that it was exactly equivalent to the anomaly scanner, potentially plus sites you'd already scanned down/found. I honestly don't see this being any kind of impedance to a WH miner because they'll just close their static + inbounds and keep an eye out for K162s...

-Liang



As someone who is part of a mainly EU corp in a C4 (with a C2 static), we only have about 7 members. Most of the time I'm on, no one else is. I also don't have any alts. As a solo explorer who mines from time to time, this really kills me.

What can I do? Nothing. They really can't let this go through. It kills the small-time explorer and actually aids the large organizations.



wait so as you are mining you can't keep an eye on your system/discovery scanner as you mine? Or you know you could always put a bubble at the grav site warp in and toss out a drone cloud in it to decloak things that wish to harm you and then mine away from it? or mine in a venture and use that utility high for a probe launcher? or move to a system that can be entirely on dscan from anywhere in system.. usually when people come off the hole they will show up on dscan for 5-10 seconds as the move off and cloak up, though you would have to be paying attention and semi lucky to catch them on dscan in this way .. or mashing it every couple seconds. Hmm what other things can be done to adapt to this? Fit ecm/ecm drones and maybe agility mods? the only thing that wont have a 4-7 second targeting delay is bombers or black ops ( but they can't warp cloaked ) and bombers are not known for having great sensor str .. jam them with a multispec or ecm drones as you align out then warp once it lands?

the only arguments i have heard are from people who are mad that they can't semi afk mine any more, or that there might be added defensive setup steps they need to take ... or that you might need to find people to play with in order to survive in the dangerous lands of WH/Nullsec/lowsec space. Honestly .. adapt or get podded? HTFU? figure it out, there are tools in the game that will allow you to keep doing what you are doing .... you just need to learn to use them. Hell if people spent half the time figuring out instead of complaining they would have nothing to complain about?



Being solo in a fully fitted hulk takes away about every one of the options you listed except mashing d-scan every 5 seconds. I am human, and no one likes doing that.

@ Liang

I don't either? I'm talking about odyssey. With this change (assuming no changes to anything else), I will not be able to solo mine in a WH. The risk vs reward is totally shot. Eve in general, WH even more so, is a giant game of risk and opportunity analysis. The reward went up slightly for Odyssey, but the risk just quadrupled. The only thing that made us "safe" in WH mining was the combination of d-scan and needing to scan us or the site down.

EDIT: Usually I hope that everything that gets changed in k-space also applies to WH space (like non-combat mag/radar sites), but for this particular instance it really shouldn't be. We don't have the benefit of local. Although, this is a huge buff to SB afk campers in null sec.
Bloody Wench
#69 - 2013-05-05 12:01:55 UTC
Phaderift wrote:
usually when people come off the hole they will show up on dscan for 5-10 seconds as the move off and cloak up



ROFL, you'd be lucky if I was on d-scan for a split second, and kissed on the prick by god himself if you clicked scan at that exact time.

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack
Soko99
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-05-05 12:35:54 UTC
Anogra wrote:
actually, he is right. CCP soundwave did a demo here at the fanfest dureing eve keynotes and showed us the new jump tunnel (absolutly ******* awesome), BUT. he aslo showed the onboard scanner, witch showed anoms as green, and sigs as red.
to quote him after he did that scan "now im going to spawn a site, coz nobody wants to see me use hours to scan down that sig" (he was demonstrating the new hacking sig).

Anogra



You guys are confusing a couple of things in that video. When he jumped through the gate, it ran that 360 scan that shows all the anoms. AFTER that, he launched his probes, which then allowed him to see the signatures as well.

Soko99
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-05-05 12:48:49 UTC
Azemar wrote:
Phaderift wrote:
Azemar wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
My understanding of the new discovery scanner was that it was exactly equivalent to the anomaly scanner, potentially plus sites you'd already scanned down/found. I honestly don't see this being any kind of impedance to a WH miner because they'll just close their static + inbounds and keep an eye out for K162s...

-Liang



As someone who is part of a mainly EU corp in a C4 (with a C2 static), we only have about 7 members. Most of the time I'm on, no one else is. I also don't have any alts. As a solo explorer who mines from time to time, this really kills me.

What can I do? Nothing. They really can't let this go through. It kills the small-time explorer and actually aids the large organizations.



wait so as you are mining you can't keep an eye on your system/discovery scanner as you mine? Or you know you could always put a bubble at the grav site warp in and toss out a drone cloud in it to decloak things that wish to harm you and then mine away from it? or mine in a venture and use that utility high for a probe launcher? or move to a system that can be entirely on dscan from anywhere in system.. usually when people come off the hole they will show up on dscan for 5-10 seconds as the move off and cloak up, though you would have to be paying attention and semi lucky to catch them on dscan in this way .. or mashing it every couple seconds. Hmm what other things can be done to adapt to this? Fit ecm/ecm drones and maybe agility mods? the only thing that wont have a 4-7 second targeting delay is bombers or black ops ( but they can't warp cloaked ) and bombers are not known for having great sensor str .. jam them with a multispec or ecm drones as you align out then warp once it lands?

the only arguments i have heard are from people who are mad that they can't semi afk mine any more, or that there might be added defensive setup steps they need to take ... or that you might need to find people to play with in order to survive in the dangerous lands of WH/Nullsec/lowsec space. Honestly .. adapt or get podded? HTFU? figure it out, there are tools in the game that will allow you to keep doing what you are doing .... you just need to learn to use them. Hell if people spent half the time figuring out instead of complaining they would have nothing to complain about?



Being solo in a fully fitted hulk takes away about every one of the options you listed except mashing d-scan every 5 seconds. I am human, and no one likes doing that.

@ Liang

I don't either? I'm talking about odyssey. With this change (assuming no changes to anything else), I will not be able to solo mine in a WH. The risk vs reward is totally shot. Eve in general, WH even more so, is a giant game of risk and opportunity analysis. The reward went up slightly for Odyssey, but the risk just quadrupled. The only thing that made us "safe" in WH mining was the combination of d-scan and needing to scan us or the site down.

EDIT: Usually I hope that everything that gets changed in k-space also applies to WH space (like non-combat mag/radar sites), but for this particular instance it really shouldn't be. We don't have the benefit of local. Although, this is a huge buff to SB afk campers in null sec.



As much as I hate this change to grav sites, I think it won't change too much for the solo ganker. The miner will have to switch from hulks to skiffs, (way better tank) and that skiff will just have to use core stabs and maybe an ECM burst with ECM drones. That should give you a chance to GTFO and break the lock on the scram. Still not a very comforting thought that my early warning system. (aside from using alts to be lookouts) is going to be pointed. But the 60-80k EHP on the skiff should give me enough time to bounce.
Soko99
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-05-05 12:50:15 UTC
Bloody Wench wrote:
Phaderift wrote:
usually when people come off the hole they will show up on dscan for 5-10 seconds as the move off and cloak up



ROFL, you'd be lucky if I was on d-scan for a split second, and kissed on the prick by god himself if you clicked scan at that exact time.



Not sure the exact game mechanic. But you actually stay on Dscan for longer than it takes to cloak. I've noticed this as I would cloak with my 1 toon, and then hit dscan on the other alt, (after alt+tabbing to swap to it) and even though I'm cloaked with my primary, my alt would still get the ship on it's dscan for 1 cycle.
Bloody Wench
#73 - 2013-05-05 12:53:43 UTC
When I do it with mine, I'm gone before the cloak has fully faded the ship.

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack
Phaderift
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#74 - 2013-05-05 18:41:36 UTC
Bloody Wench wrote:
When I do it with mine, I'm gone before the cloak has fully faded the ship.



even if you are gone and re cloaked before your ship ever actually appears you still linger on dscan server side for 5-10 seconds. so even if you instantly go from 1 cloak to another .. you still show up on dscan
Jacob Muvila
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-05-05 19:58:22 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
Quote:
We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their ship’s built-in anomaly scanning equipment. This change will make finding hidden belts much less difficult for both miners and for those who would prey on them, so pilots are always advised to practice vigilance.


Now I can just roll up on WH miners without ever dropping cloak. Lol

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=227502
Better watch out for this one.
James Arget
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
#76 - 2013-05-06 02:43:10 UTC
/me takes notes

CSM 8 Representative

http://csm8.org
Mission Domino
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-05-06 15:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mission Domino
Phaderift wrote:
Bloody Wench wrote:
When I do it with mine, I'm gone before the cloak has fully faded the ship.



even if you are gone and re cloaked before your ship ever actually appears you still linger on dscan server side for 5-10 seconds. so even if you instantly go from 1 cloak to another .. you still show up on dscan
Shazeen Zerubu
Master Bait and Tackle
#78 - 2013-05-06 17:05:49 UTC
Dont people use probes when they do stuff inside their wh ? (small corp wh dweller here)

We collapse the static and dont touch the new one when it spawns.
ALWAYS have a probe in system looking for the next K162 to spawn.

If there is a pilot camping the system your screwed but aint that why we live in wh space ? **** happens in the blink of an eye and that is the thrill for me at least .

Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#79 - 2013-05-07 22:48:18 UTC
Shazeen Zerubu wrote:
Dont people use probes when they do stuff inside their wh ? (small corp wh dweller here)

We collapse the static and dont touch the new one when it spawns.
ALWAYS have a probe in system looking for the next K162 to spawn.

If there is a pilot camping the system your screwed but aint that why we live in wh space ? **** happens in the blink of an eye and that is the thrill for me at least .



Collapsing statics isn't really a practical option for corps with 6-7 people on and only 1-2 on at any given time.

Also, I'm curious about this because I'm slightly new on the topic. What does not touching the new one do exactly? What's the point of collapsing the old one just to create another?
Phaderift
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#80 - 2013-05-07 23:06:36 UTC
Wh's spawn when you initiate warp to them so if you never warp to the new static it won't make the hole so people from the outside world can't come in through it.