Jita Park Speakers Corner

Fixed that for you.

No, trial accounts cannot vote.

LOL

I don't normally participate in these kinds of threads, as they're usually baseless at best, and completely insane at worst. But it's a bit different this time. The OP has decided that he/she is speaking for the player base, against a council elected by that player base. I voted for the CSM, NOT for the OP, so I wanted the following to be known:

OP, I do not support your position, nor do you speak for me.

There is an elected group of representatives that does speak for me, and that's the CSM. They were elected in a democratic process, one in which any player could vote. And vote I did. So the next time you speak with CCP (which I don't believe you have, at least not as an official representative of the player base), please let them know that you do not represent everyone.

If you want to know the details of why I don't support your position, here they are.

To start, I don't believe the the CSM is guilty of "corruption and vote rigging", as you haven't provided evidence. And please don't use the argument that their corp mates voted for them. That's not corruption or vote rigging, it's just good politiking. You may not like it, and you may not like the idea that people so "evil" can have so many supporters, but that's the way it is. No one in the Goonswarm is forced to be there, so it's not coercion, and since votes are anonymous, it's not like they were forced to vote for The Mittani or others; they did so freely.

Second, the arguments in your initial post make no sense at all. You begin by linking two posts about how the Goonswarm is scamming everyone, and then you say scamming really isn't the issue. Then you say they're the biggest "noob recuiting alliance that causes people to leave", but later you complain that they were voted in from all the people in their alliance. Then you say they're abusing their power by being in a position of trust, followed by quoiting the CSM Scope that doesn't mention anything about CSM being a position of trust. It goes on and on and on.

Finally, if you think your vision of EVE is better for the majority of players than that of Goonswarm, then at the next elections, go out and convince people of your vision, and get elected. You haven't presented much of a vision so far, other than you don't like the miner slaughter that's going. Personally, I think this is exactly what makes EVE so great, that a group can organize itself and cause this much mayhem. And I'm a high-sec miner! During the last Hulkageddon, I spent most of my time trying to figure out to use my hulks as bait for the hunters. It was great fun, and I'd hate to see this go away.

So I support the current CSM. I'm open-minded enough to have my opinions changed, but so far, you haven't convinced me to do so.

At least you got something right, there's a difference between interacting with the CSM in game, and interacting with the CSM outside of the game.

Your main argument however still stems from the fact that because they (okay, mostly Mittens) are evil in game, and have a large voting bloc behind them, they must inherently be evil and corrupt outside of the game.

A key point, and logical fallacy.

i'll start by saying i'm not a fan of goons nor an i a fan of the csm, -but how mitten plays the game as long as it is in the rules is fine.

now on to ice miners why don't you have goons set red and anyone that ganks you see them in local move system or dock.
apply null sec rules

if you can't do that hire mercs to war dec goons

you're right, CSM members should not engage in PvP at all

So, in essence, you feel that certain people who play the game should be held to higher standards than other people who play the game based on their race, creed, color, or title? You just won the game.

Not at all, I just feel (and some others actually do agree) that if you hold a position of player trust,) now lets forget about the people who know goons or mittani by the way Just standard players who have no idea about 0.0 politics) then scamming them in game is really abusing that trust. These people would think that this person can be trusted as they represent the players (so they seem).
convo could go

person 1 > sell me sc
csm chari > sure 20bill send me over the cash
person 1 > ok, are you gonna scam me though?
csm chair > of course not im leader of goons, i am also the csm chairman
person 1 > ah right thats cool, you will look after me then, cos you look after my interests to CCP
csm chair > yeah thats correct, so gimme the money, ill give you the ship
person 1 > no problem mr csm chair, here you go....20b, now can i have my ship
csm chair > yeah sure, hang on ill just get my director of removals, ill get him to convo you right now
person 1 > cool
person 1 > are you there? (5mins later)
person 1 > hello??.....you got my ship
csm chair leaves convo
person 1 > wtf.....
person 1 > starts convo with csm chair - response - this persoon does not want to speak to you
person 1> damn ive been scammed, by a person i thought looked out for my interests....how can i vote or even trust the csm if they can do this..

does that explain it a little?

Put it this way, if obama ordered a strike on your house and family, took everything you worked hard for, (and remember hes the president and alot of people voted for him) so he holds a position of trust). Would you trust him to look after you and your interests in office ? Of course you wouldnt, you would want to kill him...Could you trust his establishment, of course you wouldnt....same thing..

thats all i am saying. Again some people agree, some people dont. I am sorry if you dont agree and like everything in life, not everyone is the same, and even though i may not agree with what you say, i have to respect your opinion.thanks

This argument is completely invalid, because you can't base an entire game on the limited knowledge of new players. For instance, would you ban throwing a pass in football because another player doesn't know how to catch? Of course not, because the rules of the game allow for passing, and if a player wants to play the game, they need to know how to pass.





The conversation above would never happen. In game, it's not like CSM members have a big CSM sign floating beside their name. All they have is their name, and it's far more likely that if someone recognized the name "The Mittani", it's because of his position as head of Goons, rather than as CSM Chair. Don't believe me? Try running a Google search for The Mittani. The first result is his "Sins of a Spymaster" column on Ten Ton Hammer, and if you read that, he makes it clear what he does in EVE. The next results are his twitter account (again, makes it clear who he is), a YouTube video discussing scams, the next hit is a history of his posts, most of which have the word "scam" in the title, the next hit is from Massively and its a series of articles on scamming, and on and on and on.

And another reason the above conversation would not happen: a new player would not have 20B ISK.

And besides, if the convo did happen, it would be a very beneficial lesson for person 1. Because The Goons aren't the biggest scammers in the game, not even close. That conversation with person 1 is very likely to save them tons of ISK down the road.



No, it's not. In the real world, scamming is bad. In EVE, its encouraged. That's the big difference. You cannot compare real-world behavior to that of EVE.



Except that you don't respect people's opinion. A vote is nothing more than popular opinion, and the CSM was voted in by the players of EVE. By staging this protest, you're effectively ignoring everyone's opinion, and trying to impose your own.

And don't use the excuse that the vote was bought out by the Goons. It wasn't. The Mittani received 5,369 votes, but there are over 320,000 accounts eligible to vote. If people really cared, they could easily have voted someone else in.

Actually, that has happened twice, one titan and one supercarrier iirc.