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0.0 tactics change with odyssey ?

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Krax As
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-05-06 08:50:43 UTC
since Ice products and thus fuel costs will get a signifcant kick upwards in prices, do you think tactics and pvp behavior will change ?

for example hotdrops ?

dont get me wrong, its a viable tactic and its not about nerf this, buff that. but will tactics change because it is just not practical anymore to just hotdrop everything because of increased fuel prices ?

also, do you think power projection of large (or rather small ) entities will drastically change because jumping those large fleets does indeed cost sigificantly more isk in the future ??

will it have any impact at all or will it be business as usual ?
Danni stark
#2 - 2013-05-06 09:06:15 UTC
business as usual.

i'm sure there are plenty of miners chomping at the bit to get in to 0.0 space to mine more lucrative things than scordite, sensible 0.0 entities might even consider letting them do just that.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Turelus
Utassi Security
#3 - 2013-05-06 09:10:33 UTC
All miners are welcome in Providence Cool
We TBH I doubt many of the big alliances will even notice the fuel price increase with how must ISK they have. Although TBH other than PL how many jump entire cap fleets around every day? No Sov to capture means no need to move your supers everywhere every day.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-05-06 09:36:38 UTC
I think Odyssey is going to be a great time to be a miner. Miners WILL be in demand in nullsec, especially ice miners.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#5 - 2013-05-06 09:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
There will be a brief speedbump as nullsec alliances transition from importing to producing, but that's it.

You'll probably see prices spike in highsec as the now inefficient import/export mechanic becomes the norm for movement of goods into highsec.

Also, it sure is gonna suck for non-space-holding alliances like PL. Reliance on import/export is going to be a huge money sink.
Dheeradj Nurgle
Hoover Inc.
Snuffed Out
#6 - 2013-05-06 09:47:35 UTC
Most, if not all Alliances are already getting ready to move to mining/producing locally instead of importing.

The Industrials of TEST have been hard since those changes were announced.
Krax As
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-05-06 13:21:36 UTC
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:
Most, if not all Alliances are already getting ready to move to mining/producing locally instead of importing.

The Industrials of TEST have been hard since those changes were announced.



funny you mention that as I listened to the TEST indy podcast regarding odyssey changes just yesterday and from what I heard it was industrials pointing out they will need help and support from security and that TEST leadership really wont give a damn.

as one pointed out: they will just throw more money at the problem... and I doubt TEST leadership is so much different from other big alliance leadership
Krax As
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-05-06 13:23:23 UTC
also with the current turmoil and TEST leaving thr HBC i think they might have other problems on their hands....
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#9 - 2013-05-06 13:27:02 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
There will be a brief speedbump as nullsec alliances transition from importing to producing, but that's it.

You'll probably see prices spike in highsec as the now inefficient import/export mechanic becomes the norm for movement of goods into highsec.

Also, it sure is gonna suck for non-space-holding alliances like PL. Reliance on import/export is going to be a huge money sink.


It's true. My PvP alt's are already tasking my wallets pretty heavily. I feel bad for the meta PL club.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#10 - 2013-05-06 13:27:51 UTC
Krax As wrote:
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:
Most, if not all Alliances are already getting ready to move to mining/producing locally instead of importing.

The Industrials of TEST have been hard since those changes were announced.



funny you mention that as I listened to the TEST indy podcast regarding odyssey changes just yesterday and from what I heard it was industrials pointing out they will need help and support from security and that TEST leadership really wont give a damn.

as one pointed out: they will just throw more money at the problem... and I doubt TEST leadership is so much different from other big alliance leadership

I see nothing has changed on the stance to provide security for industry in 0.0 alliances since I was down there. Really, there needs to be a change in sov mechanics that forces a alliance to secure the systems they claim or lose them.

Hey, I just might have had the right idea for that.
[shameless plug]

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Kharamete
Royal Assent
#11 - 2013-05-06 13:30:17 UTC
Considering the culture that's been entrenched in this game for so long that industrials are carebears, I fully expect things to continue as before until the current culture proves to be untenable and things will have to change.

Pre 2006 there used to be powerful industrial alliances in nullsec. The first titan in the game was produced by such an entity. It was of course blown up by Band of brothers shortly after, and then they attempted to retcon history so that they had the first titan.

After 2006 the culture has been pretty much consistent in that industrials are at best renters that should pay rent to the superior peeveepeers.

I don't see how that will change until the jump bridge networks run dry, and the capital ships become big immovable bricks. Lol

CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."

My little youtube videos can be found here
stoicfaux
#12 - 2013-05-06 13:41:41 UTC
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:
Most, if not all Alliances are already getting ready to move to mining/producing locally instead of importing.

The Industrials of TEST have been hard since those changes were announced.

.... is existing, pre-Odyssesy mined ore going to magically change to having the new ore compositions come Odyssey?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-05-06 13:42:11 UTC
Kharamete wrote:
Considering the culture that's been entrenched in this game for so long that industrials are carebears, I fully expect things to continue as before until the current culture proves to be untenable and things will have to change.

Pre 2006 there used to be powerful industrial alliances in nullsec. The first titan in the game was produced by such an entity. It was of course blown up by Band of brothers shortly after, and then they attempted to retcon history so that they had the first titan.

After 2006 the culture has been pretty much consistent in that industrials are at best renters that should pay rent to the superior peeveepeers.

I don't see how that will change until the jump bridge networks run dry, and the capital ships become big immovable bricks. Lol


without industrialists pvp would be reduced to rookie ships & civilian mods
of course no one likes to admit that those carebearing industrialists are vital to eve
especially not the majority of the hardcore pvp'ing elite

if push came to shove, those elite pvpers will just create an industrial alt, and still hate on the industrialists for ruining their pvp game.
Missive Ernaga
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-05-06 14:13:39 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:
Most, if not all Alliances are already getting ready to move to mining/producing locally instead of importing.

The Industrials of TEST have been hard since those changes were announced.

.... is existing, pre-Odyssesy mined ore going to magically change to having the new ore compositions come Odyssey?




Exactly. anyone who refines high-end ore before june 4th is a weenie.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-05-06 21:39:21 UTC
Krax As wrote:
since Ice products and thus fuel costs will get a signifcant kick upwards in prices, do you think tactics and pvp behavior will change ?


That is ONE heck of an assumption. With cycle times of ice harvesters falling 50%, ice harvesting in 0.0 will instantly be more profitable than ore mining, even at current market price.

Why do you assume that there will not simply be much more ice harvested in null, to take advantage of this profitability, dropping prices instead of increasing them.


Besides, CCP was clear in their "the numbers" dev blog that they will be monitoring closely and make adjustments as needed, telling me they are not going to let ice prices skyrocket.

Finally, an increase in ice prices will hit POS prices more than hot drops, and would likely just result in towers coming down.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-05-07 00:18:32 UTC
Krax As wrote:


for example hotdrops ?



The cost of fuel plays little to no significance in hotdrops. Ice could go up easily 500%, before I think you'd start to notice any real decrease in the amount of capital hotdrops, and a hell of a lot more than that before supers would get used less for hotdrops. I think the real noticable changes will be the impact on research towers, and reaction chains. Currently, in nullsec, well, as of a few weeks ago, it cost roughly 350m per month, to run a large caldari reaction tower, so with my tech 2 reactions, you could rather easily pay for the tower, and justify, via profit margin, running a lot of them. With pos fuel looking to likely hit 600m a month in the next few months, probably way higher, if the ice changes really do have the impact on supply that CCP projected, (it's currently 450m a month), that rise in fuel cost is going to translate directly to the cost of reacted moongoo products proportionately going up in price.

TL:DR;

Ice goes up ^ Hotdrops = no change

Ice goes up ^ Tech 2 ship/module prices go ^
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#17 - 2013-05-07 00:48:12 UTC
Krax As wrote:
also with the current turmoil and TEST leaving thr HBC i think they might have other problems on their hands....



Haha, dude, TEST freaking thrives on chaos. This isn't close to a problem - TEST will be much stronger and more active in the coming months, especially if the HBC tries to take Delve. We're backwards like that.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-05-07 05:57:42 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
business as usual.

i'm sure there are plenty of miners chomping at the bit to get in to 0.0 space to mine more lucrative things than scordite, sensible 0.0 entities might even consider letting them do just that.


The closest this will come to happening is that existing nullsec players move there highsec industry alts into nullsec.

Nullsec alliances will not be inviting anyone in (outside of the usual renter agreements) to do mining and industry because many of them already have highsec alts who will get first dibs on any new wealth to be made in nullsec mining and industry.
Signal11th
#19 - 2013-05-07 07:37:05 UTC
Before Odessey,

Target
Press F1
Blown up

After Odessey,

Target.
Press F1
Blown up, humm let's go mine.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#20 - 2013-05-07 07:49:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
business as usual.

i'm sure there are plenty of miners chomping at the bit to get in to 0.0 space to mine more lucrative things than scordite, sensible 0.0 entities might even consider letting them do just that.


The closest this will come to happening is that existing nullsec players move there highsec industry alts into nullsec.

Nullsec alliances will not be inviting anyone in (outside of the usual renter agreements) to do mining and industry because many of them already have highsec alts who will get first dibs on any new wealth to be made in nullsec mining and industry.


I'm sure some will scoop up the scattered remnants of the old, dead industrialist alliances that fled to highsec. There are people with experience running large-scale null industry in EVE, they just happen to mostly be ex members of long dead alliances.

There was a period when TEST produced a lot out in Fountain. However, with the alliance's voracious appetite, and the changes to ice likely making shipping terribly inefficient, there is likely going to be a lot of new blood in the new industry wing, both internal and external.
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