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Ships & Modules

 
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Neut or Nos?

Author
Sylar Reuwich
Hek Trade and Industries
#1 - 2011-11-02 21:44:39 UTC
On the following setups which are cap stable at a high % with MWD off, would a neut or nos be best used where frigs are a common enemy?

[Vexor]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
[empty high slot]

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
Warrior II x5

[Celestis]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
[empty high slot]

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x3
Hobgoblin II x2

Goose99
#2 - 2011-11-02 21:49:25 UTC
Neut. To dry up the frigs.

Nos is for the opposite situation, when you're the frig...
Sylar Reuwich
Hek Trade and Industries
#3 - 2011-11-02 21:58:20 UTC
Yeah thing is if I get neuted by them a nos might come in handy. I guess it depends on the situation so I might just try each a few times and see how it goes.
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#4 - 2011-11-02 22:40:34 UTC
If any frig neuts your vexor down enough to make a nos worth using before your drones kil it you have bigger problems than cap. Use neuts.
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-11-02 22:56:22 UTC
Almost entirely different modules. Do you want to tank their cap, or buff yours? Also is it a medium nos/neut or a small nos/neut?

Probably better off with ACs on the armor Vexor instead of small hybrids by the way. Better range and no cap use. Though I wonder at the frigate pilot that gets caught by a plated, trimarked Vexor...

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?

Sylar Reuwich
Hek Trade and Industries
#6 - 2011-11-03 01:03:37 UTC
Desudes wrote:
Almost entirely different modules. Do you want to tank their cap, or buff yours? Also is it a medium nos/neut or a small nos/neut?

Probably better off with ACs on the armor Vexor instead of small hybrids by the way. Better range and no cap use. Though I wonder at the frigate pilot that gets caught by a plated, trimarked Vexor...


Small, a neut is probably the way to go on both I guess come to think of it. Yeah ACs are good but I like light neutrons a lot, void s gives you decent DPS - close to heavy electrons with a fraction of the pg requirement. Of course they don't hit out far but most of the time if I can hold someone in web range, I'll be very close to the them due to momentum and the blasters will melt them. Null s if I fall short.
Will Strafe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-11-03 06:09:03 UTC
I'd say the rule of thumb is; if you are the little guy you will want a Nos, and if you are the big guy you'll want a neut.

So if you´re in a cruiser, and a frig tries to neut you, he will probably suck his own cap dry before he sucks your cap dry. And if you have a medium neut fitted, there's no way he will win that contest.
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-11-03 07:22:49 UTC
Skill dependant but nevertheless. If you drop the hybrids for projectiles you have more cap reserve for the neut. Naturally I cannot say how this will work after the winter update.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Captain Nares
O3 Corporation
#9 - 2011-11-03 08:19:11 UTC
Sylar Reuwich wrote:


Sure - neuts.

Celestis fit isn't viable. Vexor is ok.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-11-03 14:24:33 UTC
Since they changed NOS's many moons ago (which need looking at again, they're obviously either underpowered or neuts are overpowered), it basically created a nice simple rule:

Attacking something bigger = Nos.
Attacking something smaller or the same size = Neut.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-11-03 15:17:15 UTC
Buzzmong wrote:
Since they changed NOS's many moons ago (which need looking at again, they're obviously either underpowered or neuts are overpowered), it basically created a nice simple rule:

Attacking something bigger = Nos.
Attacking something smaller or the same size = Neut.


Excellent, This explains why you rarely see a Bhaalgorn fit with NOS.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Vandir Rael
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-11-03 15:28:00 UTC
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
Buzzmong wrote:
Since they changed NOS's many moons ago (which need looking at again, they're obviously either underpowered or neuts are overpowered), it basically created a nice simple rule:

Attacking something bigger = Nos.
Attacking something smaller or the same size = Neut.


Excellent, This explains why you rarely see a Bhaalgorn fit with NOS.

If you still follow the rules then you are not ready to use a Bhaalgorn
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-11-03 15:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzmong
Vandir Rael wrote:
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
Excellent, This explains why you rarely see a Bhaalgorn fit with NOS.

If you still follow the rules then you are not ready to use a Bhaalgorn


^ The Bhaal (and other ships with Neut/Nos bonuses) are an exception to the rule.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2011-11-03 18:10:05 UTC
Vandir Rael wrote:
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
Buzzmong wrote:
Since they changed NOS's many moons ago (which need looking at again, they're obviously either underpowered or neuts are overpowered), it basically created a nice simple rule:

Attacking something bigger = Nos.
Attacking something smaller or the same size = Neut.


Excellent, This explains why you rarely see a Bhaalgorn fit with NOS.

If you still follow the rules then you are not ready to use a Bhaalgorn


I guess we'll just see about that Twisted
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-11-03 18:11:36 UTC
Buzzmong wrote:
Vandir Rael wrote:
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
Excellent, This explains why you rarely see a Bhaalgorn fit with NOS.

If you still follow the rules then you are not ready to use a Bhaalgorn


^ The Bhaal (and other ships with Neut/Nos bonuses) are an exception to the rule.


Care to expand on that?
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Sylar Reuwich
Hek Trade and Industries
#16 - 2011-11-03 22:03:48 UTC
Cheers for the responses.
Sylar Reuwich
Hek Trade and Industries
#17 - 2011-11-03 22:06:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylar Reuwich
Captain Nares wrote:
Sylar Reuwich wrote:


Celestis fit isn't viable. Vexor is ok.


Can you elaborate? I know the lack of a web is an issue but I plan to use this fit when I know the cruiser is webbed. Though I guess I'll probably end up engaging some slower cruisers anyway without a tackler if I think I can get the kill lol but I'll just have to see how that goes.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-11-03 23:55:36 UTC
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
Buzzmong wrote:
Vandir Rael wrote:
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
Excellent, This explains why you rarely see a Bhaalgorn fit with NOS.

If you still follow the rules then you are not ready to use a Bhaalgorn


^ The Bhaal (and other ships with Neut/Nos bonuses) are an exception to the rule.


Care to expand on that?



Essentially, one way of looking at it is that the bonuses make the Bhaal and kin have the next size up in terms of Nos/Neuts in terms of effect.

This means you can neut/leech a massive amount in a few cycles.

As the function of Nos is related to your own cap % amount, you run into the problem that with Nos you'd simply fill yourself up or match the cap % with the enemy ship in 1 or 2 cycles, rendering the Nos non-functional and leaving the enemy ship with loads of cap*.

Neuts rely on your own cap to function, so as long as you have cap, you can neut forever. The big bonuses for certain ships mean you can neut an incredible amount of cap over a couple of cycles, far exceeding what the "bigger" ship can do to you, and because you're not limited by the Nos rules, you can cap them out.

Bhaals scare lone supercaps because they can shut a super down in a few cycles.


Obviously, for non-bonused ships when attacking something bigger your neut won't have much effect, and because you're probably being neuted by bigger neuts and therefore have a low cap % level, a Nos will keep working and hopefully provide you with enough cap to keep shooting/mwd'ing/tanking.


*There are some Bhaal fits favouring Nos, but they're crazy fits with things like treble large reps in order to keep cap % down. Not popular or sensible since the changes because neuts are much better at removing cap.