Out of Pod Experience

This.

If I recall correctly one of the additional capabilities built into the Ticos was to serve as onboard fleet command with the communication, command, control network communication suites to fill the role. Also remember that the original Arleigh Burkes were built without onboard helo stowage (only added in later models).

The actual combat capabilities between cruiser and destroyer has always been very similar. Its the subtle extras that made the classes distinction.

yk

I'm not questioning whether they are good at the job they've been given or that the name Cruiser doesn't fit.

I am saying only saying that the reason the class was changed wasn't because of capabilities, it was because the Soviets classified what they called a Cruiser different making it appear as if they had more so the US changed this class to the designation Cruiser to close the Cruiser Gap so they could win the cold war somehow because that is how it worked don't ask questions.

If it wasn't for that Cruiser gap they would be Destroyers, they would have the exact same capabilities as now but they would be called Destroyer. IE Ship classification is political.The same politics that got the Zumwalt classified a Destroyer when they wanted to build a ton of them and not make it look like they wanted funding for a massive Cruiser fleet and the same politics that will probably see it classified a Cruiser now that they are getting only 3 of them.

From what Ive read about them, the pulse laser will most likely be deployed on carriers and cruisers as they are the primary defense against China's "Carrier Killer" missile system. The Rail gun most likely will deploted on Detroyers, Frigates and to newer Littoral Combat Ships (Why such a big name? Why not just call them Corvettes? That is what they are, anyway) as a lighter and more powerful replacement for the 5" AP gun. Eventually they all have both, but as for early deployment, thats the most likely scenario I see.
The Phalanx is a proven weapons system, i dont see that getting replaced. While the laser is awesome, nothing does better against a large group of aircraft then a sky full of lead.

Isn't it amazing, how, none the less, we have distinct fleet types for different activities, even if most hulls are "generic" in their purpose? EvE BS are more for fleet action, or solo PvE "stand tall hit hard" operations, while cruisers and BC's are more often found in roams (expeditions), with frigate support (and tackle), etc?

That all very much reminds of sail navy eras, where size and mobility were the decision-making factors, and armaments varied mostly in cannon size and count (and even then, size didn't quite vary as much as it does in EvE).

Now, if, for a moment, we forget entirely the many meanings for ship designations, and think of semantics, what do we get? Let's start with destroyers. In EvE they truly live up to their name, as they are the most widely used boats for suidice attacks, quick destruction of a single high profile (mostly non-military) targets and anti-frigate support.

Cruisers and BC's - indeed, they are the long range small scale warfare impersonated. That is, not counting sniper or brick BC fleets used en-masse in lowsec. But those, as expected, fall prey to equally large BS fleets. BC's compared to cruisers are a bit hardier, significantly more powerful, and definitely more expensive. Mobility is still comparable, as is often the size (e.g., 'Cane and Cynabal).

Battleships hardly need any extra comments.

Then there are "specialized" hulls, designed for particular purposes, like logistics. Not quite sure how those would fit with modern or sail era navies, but, then again, battlefield maintenance takes on an entirely new meaning when operating several light years away from base.

Frigates are the only ones left, save for caps. The latter, however, hardly have real life counterparts, unless you think of WW2 beasts like Bismarck and Yamato as that. And even then, thankfully, planet Earth hasn't seen battles with hundreds of such ships fighting each other.

Going back to frigs, these are your most diverse bunch. Patrol craft (tackle), scout/recon (anathema, heron, etc.), anti-frigate (several combat frigs), ewar, etc. Take a big shiny battleship to lowsec, and the local population will quickly explain their role with a very hands on approach.

On a side note, modern navies do tend to repurpose older hulls, upgrading them, and often finding a new application for them, provided such an application exists. Same goes for ground vehicles, even small arms, when a dedicated sniper rifle becomes squad support rifle as newer and better rifles become available.

Something to think about when comparing standard ships to their "navy version" - it's almost as if capsuleers get their hands on older designs, ones that constituted the ship line when they got released, while navies in EvE generally use those only for system patrols, and have better, upgraded "navi issue" ships for warfare (which we don't see very often, and which cost way more). It is pretty much how it currently works in modern military equipment deals - you get a trimmed down version of a Sukhoi when you buy one, and it won't be sporting all the equipment that the army ones are supposed to have (ok, let's not talk about why most are not upgraded yet). I'm pretty sure the F-35's that are offered to some countries also differ from the ones US would be using itself.

Now, comparing EvE ships to modern naval vessels seems irrelevant, as today guns are mostly obsolete for ship to ship warfare due to highly advanced and destructive missile weaponry making engagement ranges way beyond even the heaviest battleship guns of old, as well as rendering heavy armour nowhere near as effective as it used to be. Hence the shift to active defenses and decentralized weapons platforms (your 80 destroyers are going to project insane, incomparable firepower to a couple of large heavy WWII battleships, while putting them all out of commission is going to require at best 80 hits, and, at worst, significantly more, if you factor active defenses in).

EvE, however, centers around the "gun and armour/shields idea", when a single target requirese quite a few hits to go down, like it was with wooden, sail-propelled ships armed with small cannons. In this scenario it can be preferable to have a few hardened boats that can withstand a significant beating while still delivering 100% of their firepower, as compared to a horde of small expendable ships, whose combined firepower will drop in a linear fashion as more are destroyed.

You also have one limitation that is different from modern RL ships - crew size. In real life you have different ships requiring different crews. In EvE each ship essentially needs one capsule pilot, and the rest is lore-related, without impacting game mechanics. Therefore situations arise, when the cost of hulls is not the decisive factor. You can be limited by the total amount of vessels you can operate, at the time of engagement.

Finally, you also have such a beautiful concept as "skill support" for EvE ships. In RL you have crews that received some training for that particular boat, and it's fine. In EvE you have a set of players with skills that may be to the detrimand of a chosen strategy of, say, fielding armour BS fleets. And then you may be forced to choose a different fleet doctrine based on what pilots you have, even devise entirely different strategies.

That all said, I really liked the idea of comparing EvE ship classes to RL, but the problem I see with such a comparison is that we view ships and ship battles separate from the economical and political setting, and that may be a bit wrong. After all, purpose defines everything.

Um, "a" ship of the line? How do you from a line with one ship?

That's that British "stiff upper lip" thingy again, They're the only ones who'd form a battle line with one ship, and be damn proud of it!

Actually the term Battleships predated the Dreadnought as a class by 15 years, they are now called Pre-Dreadnoughts but they were very much considered Battleships before and after the Dreadnought. The Dreadnought only increased their main armament from 4 guns too 6-10.


Heavy Cruisers and Light Cruisers classification actually didn't have anything to do with size, armor and speed in fact many Light Cruisers as you said were equal or bigger than Heavies and many Heavy Cruisers faster than Light Cruisers ranging from design to design. What they were classed on was their armament, Light Cruisers carried 6" surface or dual purpose guns and Heavy Cruisers carried 8" surface guns. Light Cruisers in the same weight class carried more 6" guns than Heavies carried 8" guns, some up to 16 guns. The large variation in size differences was the result of the London and Washington Naval Treaties which limited the top sizes and the armaments of these ships.


Frigates actually rolled back into service before the Cold War during WW2 because Destroyers since WW1 were up-sized largely increasing armament they needed a ship that could handle its former role cheaper, Fending off small boats, submarines and aircraft attacking convoys. They were cheaply made with simple machinery topping out at about 10 knots slower than Destroyers but faster than the U-Boats that was their main enemy and were around 300-1000 tons lighter than new Destroyers.

The Americans on the other hand went with the Destroyer Escort based on the same design concepts except for adding torpedoes to fend of Japanese surface ships. Many DE's were transferred to the Royal Navy whom classified them Frigates and removed the torpedoes as surface ships were not a real threat anymore in the Atlantic. The Japanese had the similar Kaibokan or Ocean Defense Ship to fill the role late in the war. Germans, Russians and Italians had no equivalent themselves since they did not rely on Merchant shipping using their Destroyers some other small boats.

Heh, insert national pride snippet.

The destroyer class was invented by the Spanish navy. Their role was to be fast attack ships able to destroy torpedo boats before they got in range of the main ships -hence they were called "destructores". So they were built around powerful powerplants with no armor and sporting small caliber guns with a high rate of fire, enough to break havoc on smaller craft.

What's interesting with EVE is that "frigates" being the smaller ships, the "destroyers" in game really replay the original destroyer design as fast, weak and heavily armed craft with many small guns.

Early Battleship Layout

Midterm Battleship Layout

Late Battleship Layout

It's only a small change, but a very effective one.