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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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New Player Experience
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Yashir Wong
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-05-05 20:01:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Yashir Wong
I was talking with a friend who has never played EVE but went in to try out Dust the other night. His biggest complaint was the infamous learning cliff that has plagued EVE and now Dust apparently.

It occurred to us that the biggest hurdle for entry is the sheer amount of choice given to a player at the get go. A clearly defined and predetermined set of fitting templates would probably go a long way to ease the player in. Additionally, a skill plan guide, based off predetermined roles that a player could blindly follow for the first few months would be excellent. Then when the player's comfortable to experiment a little more they still have that freedom and can take those steps.

I realize that with the militia fits that notion is there a bit, but if it was highlighted and heavily emphasized during new player creation that would be a plus.

Just a thought.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#2 - 2013-05-05 20:21:28 UTC
The learning curve is really steep and many people also I do not wish it to change. One of the good things in eve is that you are fascinates by these complex systems.

So the learning curve is steep and it should should be but there is also other problems. Like that all the skills we learn have even leveling. For example Controlled Bursts is 5% reduce in capacitor need for each level. Yet I sincerely think that having level V of this skill for every Amarr pilot is simply a must. There are other must to have skills that have even leveling. That causes several issues..

New players never can and never should gain completely on old players But when the leveling is even 5% every level it will take new player lot longer to gain even close to even up the cap.

This is bit ironic since new players are the players that don't have resources or money and they start the game with very slow progress making them easy to blow up targets for veterans (RIDICULOUSLY easy, seriously!).

This even skill leveling should be taken into considering and change it probably something similar like level 1: 7.5%, level 2: 7.5%, level 3: 5%, level 4: 2.5%, level 5: 2.5%.

This would already give big kickoff boost for new players. Not taking anything from existing players but giving everyone little boost. That had not the skill on level V yet.
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#3 - 2013-05-05 20:22:48 UTC  |  Edited by: DeLindsay
This isn't a terrible idea. The thought that CCP could add some form of pre-determined skill path's (as an example to follow) so new players didn't seem overwhelmed would be great. However, I fear it'd lead Eve down the familiar path to dumbing down the game and/or homogenizing it like too many other MMO's to the point that it isn't Eve anymore.

  • The open ended game play is what makes Eve shine over so many other MMO's.
  • Having a stupid high learning curve keeps MANY idiots out of Eve, something MOST players appreciate.
  • As an Evevet, I am still learning crap today, which keeps the game interesting when other MMO's go stale.
  • Non-consensual PvP anywhere in the game at anytime is what makes Eve wonderful. Everything YOU do has consequences.


    • If CCP can add new player direction without sacrificing the above comments I'm all for it.

    Quote:
    This is bit ironic since new players are the players that don't have resources or money and they start the game with very slow progress making them easy to blow up targets for veterans (RIDICULOUSLY easy, seriously!).


    This is an old and outdated complaint. EVERY MMO is the same, new players can easily be roflstomped by veteran players. However, there is no other MMO that I'm aware of where month old players in T1 fitted Frigates have even the slightest chance to kill a veteran player in multi billion ISK Pirate Battleship. In Eve it happens, more than anyone cares to admit. It doesn't matter if you've played for 10 years or 10 days, with the right tactics ANYONE can be killed, no matter their SP or price of Ship.

    The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

    Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".
    Theia Matova
    Dominance Theory
    #4 - 2013-05-05 20:42:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Theia Matova
    DeLindsay wrote:

    Quote:
    This is bit ironic since new players are the players that don't have resources or money and they start the game with very slow progress making them easy to blow up targets for veterans (RIDICULOUSLY easy, seriously!).


    This is an old and outdated complaint. EVERY MMO is the same, new players can easily be roflstomped by veteran players. However, there is no other MMO that I'm aware of where month old players in T1 fitted Frigates have even the slightest chance to kill a veteran player in multi billion ISK Pirate Battleship. In Eve it happens, more than anyone cares to admit. It doesn't matter if you've played for 10 years or 10 days, with the right tactics ANYONE can be killed, no matter their SP or price of Ship.


    So EVE should be like every other MMORPGs? Isn't this exactly for EVE being different? What would it take away from you if new players could advance yet same speed but just get to magical marks faster?

    Eve is rock, paper and scissor game yes but for new player I would say its impossible because of the skill differences.
    Mike Voidstar
    Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
    #5 - 2013-05-05 20:42:49 UTC
    Not that they do a great job at it, but I got the impression that this is what the certificates were supposed to do. You don't get locked into training them, but they do give options and a semblance of a plan depending on what you want to do.

    Looking into them and perhaps restructuring some based on individual ships or intended roles might be a good idea to help with this.
    DeLindsay
    Galaxies Fall
    #6 - 2013-05-05 20:51:02 UTC
    Theia Matova wrote:
    DeLindsay wrote:

    Quote:
    This is bit ironic since new players are the players that don't have resources or money and they start the game with very slow progress making them easy to blow up targets for veterans (RIDICULOUSLY easy, seriously!).


    This is an old and outdated complaint. EVERY MMO is the same, new players can easily be roflstomped by veteran players. However, there is no other MMO that I'm aware of where month old players in T1 fitted Frigates have even the slightest chance to kill a veteran player in multi billion ISK Pirate Battleship. In Eve it happens, more than anyone cares to admit. It doesn't matter if you've played for 10 years or 10 days, with the right tactics ANYONE can be killed, no matter their SP or price of Ship.


    So EVE should be like every other MMORPGs? Isn't this exactly for EVE being different? What would it take away from you if new players could advance yet same speed but just get to magical marks faster?

    Eve is rock, paper and scissor game yes but for new player I would say its impossible because of the skill differences.


    I don't think you understood what I said. I was talking about how Eve is DIFFERENT from all other MMO's because new players CAN & DO kill veteran players with the right tactics. Take WoW for example, there is literally no way for a LARGE group of level 20's to kill a single level 90. Compare that to Eve with a large group of 1 mo old toons, they can and have popped expensive BS's of players with VERY high SP. Rift is the same way, GW is the same way, etc. No other MMO gives new players the tools to kill old player like Eve does. And new players DO get the ability to train faster for the first ~30 days with the Cerebral Accelerator.

    The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

    Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".
    Theia Matova
    Dominance Theory
    #7 - 2013-05-05 21:04:06 UTC
    DeLindsay wrote:

    I don't think you understood what I said. I was talking about how Eve is DIFFERENT from all other MMO's because new players CAN & DO kill veteran players with the right tactics. Take WoW for example, there is literally no way for a LARGE group of level 20's to kill a single level 90. Compare that to Eve with a large group of 1 mo old toons, they can and have popped expensive BS's of players with VERY high SP. Rift is the same way, GW is the same way, etc. No other MMO gives new players the tools to kill old player like Eve does. And new players DO get the ability to train faster for the first ~30 days with the Cerebral Accelerator.


    I did misunderstood apology for that. And I think such training boost is really nice it gives boost for new people. But I still think that the even skill levels should be taken into consideration because changing and shifting the skill gain like I explained would not be away from anyone. And we would gain more capable pilots faster. Also motivating new people to train those skills.

    However what comes to V training if dropping the skill gained to 2.5% from 5% would cause demotivation we could have some kind of special effect gained from training skill to V these could be either vanity effects or something trivial like lets say rapid fire V would have special effect " Level V of this skill makes you more fluent in loading ammo giving 5% reduction reload time. " But anyway its something that CCP should consider.
    Nometh Xergent
    #8 - 2013-05-05 21:40:25 UTC
    Yashir Wong wrote:
    I was talking with a friend who has never played EVE but went in to try out Dust the other night. His biggest complaint was the infamous learning cliff that has plagued EVE and now Dust apparently.

    It occurred to us that the biggest hurdle for entry is the sheer amount of choice given to a player at the get go. A clearly defined and predetermined set of fitting templates would probably go a long way to ease the player in. Additionally, a skill plan guide, based off predetermined roles that a player could blindly follow for the first few months would be excellent. Then when the player's comfortable to experiment a little more they still have that freedom and can take those steps.

    I realize that with the militia fits that notion is there a bit, but if it was highlighted and heavily emphasized during new player creation that would be a plus.

    Just a thought.


    There is something called certificates. You have something to follow there!

    “I’ve always loathed the necessity of sleep. Like death, it puts even the most powerful men on their backs.”
    Little Dragon Khamez
    Guardians of the Underworld
    #9 - 2013-05-05 22:33:17 UTC
    Eve should be harsh and unforgiving right from the off. It weeds out the undesirables and I see nothing wrong with that, make the learning curve steeper I say.

    Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...