These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

FEDERATION DENIES REPUBLIC REQUEST FOR EXTRADITION OF SHOOTER
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#141 - 2013-05-02 07:18:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Katarina Musana
Quote:

It's not a stereotype just because it's true and you don't like it, and despite it being common knowledge I still backed it up for you though of course either through your own conniving means or a lack of intelligence (I'll assume the former since you have to be somewhat smart to do that) you interpreted clearly cited references and quotations as my own words.


It is not true, it is merely a stereotype and you're too closed-minded to see past it. Yes, we have a lot of Matari who don't simply settle down and do "mundane" work. Many in my clan, in my tribe, favor traveling and taking work along the way, work that is not always the most reputable type. That does not make us criminals, but people like you love to just assume that we are criminals.

Quote:
I'm not discussing this matter further with you. Throughout this entire debate you have employed ad-hominem as your main tactic. I admit to doing it on occasion myself though nothing on the scale of your rhetoric. Your going to try and have the last say, declare victory, and toss a few more insults my way but I won't respond but feel free to continue living in your microcosm of ignorance and idiocy.

There are people with significantly more honor and pride than the likes of you that I would rather devote my time to talking with, even if we are at a disagreement.

I wish you the best of luck, please feel free to contact me once you've reformed yourself.


You are the one who has resorted to "ad-hominem" attacks as your main tactic, throwing out insults against me and my people. You call me a coward and you insult my honor and my pride, as if you even understand what those are.


Fredfredbug4 wrote:

I hate to use that defense but I'm afraid it's all I can say. You can either take my word that I am not a racist, or you can disregard my words, your choice.


You say you are not racist, yet your "actions" (in this case, your arguments) show you to be racist and bigoted, thus nullifying your claim of not being racist.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#142 - 2013-05-02 14:56:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Xindi Kraid
Katarina Musana wrote:
Quote:
Where have we insulted the Tribes exactly?


Directly from the article linked in the first post of this thread...

"The decision went on to read, 'This court also calls into question the capability of the tribal courts to provide a fair and just trial to the accused. In an event that is so emotionally charged, it is the duty of a legal system to provide non-biased jurors and justices to adjudicate the fate of the accused. The accused must be tried by a court of his peers and handed summary judgment by a justice who can be reasonably assumed to be free of any bias. In the opinion of this court, the Minmatar tribal courts would be wholly unable to fulfil either of these prerequisites.'"

The Supreme Court had some semblence of reason until they included that insult.


Now I am convinced you just want to be mad, so you are intentionally misinterpreting everything to be a personal attack or an insult. The question of neutrality has NOTHING to do with the fact that the tribal courts are Minmatar. The reason they question the ability for them to remain fair and neutral is the emotionally charged part. With all the screaming coming from the Republic, one begins to wonder if a trial will even be held, or if they are just going to skip straight to the execution phase.

The Federation want a neutral trial, the way to do that under their law is by bringing in people uninvolved in the matter who don't have preconceived notions about the case and haven't already made up their mind. Since it was a tribal leader who was injured, they consider the tribe to be involved in the affair. They would say the exact same thing if this was an attack against Amarr and one of the Amarr holders were making these demands.

Katarina Musana wrote:

The answer, to any Matari, is Tribal law, no matter where they live. Tribal law is the domain of the Tribes, not exclusive to the Republic.
.
What you keep failing to understand is that does not hold up in an international setting. The Federation have their own laws, and in their sovereignty, their law overrides tribal law. Making up your own rules does not suddenly give you permission to ignore the rules of your host.

Aside from that, if the shooter isn't a Minmatar then he wouldn't be beholden to your tribal laws outside that tribe's space anyways.
Shiho Weitong
Perkone
Caldari State
#143 - 2013-05-03 18:35:10 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Still, the discussion is irrelevant, unless you're trying to say Tribal law is more important than Federal law within the Federation itself. And I advise you to think very carefully before replying to that line, and all the insinuation that comes with it.


The answer, to any Matari, is Tribal law, no matter where they live. Tribal law is the domain of the Tribes, not exclusive to the Republic.

If you had any understanding of cultures outside your own...


I know I'm putting my head in a hornets nest here, but i have to ask this question.

What happens if the State, the federation or the Empire decides that their citizens can only be judged by their respective states, would the tribes and the republic acknowledge this?.

Would the Tribes and the republic hand over a holder who had been caught taking slaves in republic space?
Would they hand over a ruthless statesman who left an entire planet unemployed?
Would they hand over a federation criminal who had murdered 50 people?

These practices would not be illegal in the Empire and the State respectively, so would the tribes and the republic freely hand over said individuals?
Would they extradite a gallente terrorist to the feds?

If the answer to any of these is no, then you can't have the shooter.

If you want full jurisdiction over all the tribals, you should probably try to keep them in line, and within republic airspace.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#144 - 2013-05-05 14:56:56 UTC
Shiho Weitong wrote:
Katarina Musana wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Still, the discussion is irrelevant, unless you're trying to say Tribal law is more important than Federal law within the Federation itself. And I advise you to think very carefully before replying to that line, and all the insinuation that comes with it.


The answer, to any Matari, is Tribal law, no matter where they live. Tribal law is the domain of the Tribes, not exclusive to the Republic.

If you had any understanding of cultures outside your own...


I know I'm putting my head in a hornets nest here, but i have to ask this question.

What happens if the State, the federation or the Empire decides that their citizens can only be judged by their respective states, would the tribes and the republic acknowledge this?.

Would the Tribes and the republic hand over a holder who had been caught taking slaves in republic space?
Would they hand over a ruthless statesman who left an entire planet unemployed?
Would they hand over a federation criminal who had murdered 50 people?

These practices would not be illegal in the Empire and the State respectively, so would the tribes and the republic freely hand over said individuals?
Would they extradite a gallente terrorist to the feds?

If the answer to any of these is no, then you can't have the shooter.

If you want full jurisdiction over all the tribals, you should probably try to keep them in line, and within republic airspace.



Your questions don't quite make sense. In particular, the examples regarding a Holder taking slaves in republic space and the ruthless statesman.

If they are not illegal actions in the nations those individuals come from, why would extradition be expected or requested? If you're saying this because of your premise, that makes it even more confusing. We have not said that Matari can only be tried in Tribal Courts. It is when the crime is committed against Matari that the Tribal Courts should be involved, and the example that this thread has been debating involves an instance where it wasn't just Matari, but a significant number of Matari citizens, including a Tribal Leader.

A case where a Matari, even a Republic Citizen, goes into another nation and commits a crime exclusively against that nation's citizens/native ethnic population, I do not believe the Republic would insist on extradition/joint investigations, unless there was some significant political reason to do so. Likewise, were a Gallente (for example) citizen to come into the Republic and commit a crime against a large number of Gallenteans, even if they were a mix in regards to their "citizenship," the Republic would likely have no reason to deny extradition, and would certainly have no reason to deny a joint investigation.

Does this answer your question? It's the best I can manage at the moment with the confusing way you asked.