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Drone Overhaul - is it coming or not?

Author
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1 - 2013-05-05 10:20:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
UPDATE #2: Odyssey 1.1 drag & drop



UPDATE: A similar thread focusing on drone UI got a dev response, still cautious at this point, but shows that the issues have not been completely forgotten by CCP:

CCP Arrow wrote:
I can't make any promises, but I've worked on many mockups and ideas for a brand new Drone UI and I would love to work on it's implementation with my team Game of Drones in the near future.

All I can say is keep up the good work of giving us ideas for it and know that the right people are listening Smile


Thumbs up for this, hope game designers find this thread about and start planning for mechanic update!





Drone mechanics, including their AI, UI and stats have been dated for years. Random behaviour, terrible usability, cruiser-size sigs and battleship speeds, broken chase/orbit modes, practical issues with sentry drones and mobility- list is long and well known by both players and CCP.

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Dominix: still remains a popular ship. It is fairly good, except for the drone mechanics themselves, which are terribly outdated. While we are not certain when this can be tackled, it definitely has high priority on our to-do list.


Instead of keeping the ship as "fairly good" and actually fixing the "terribly outdated" drone mechanics, BS tiericide turns the Dominix from a popular jack-of-all-trades into a sentry carrier. It loses two roles, the all out ganker and neut Domi, and gets sentry-oriented drone tracking and optimal bonuses with more vague hints of actually fixing something about drones.

CCP Rise wrote:
I also want to mention here that while the drone system overall needs looking at, we here on the balance team have some short term ideas for helping the usability of sentry drones – no timeframe on them as of yet, but its something we have in mind.


I'm not one to claim that drones in their current state are "useless", but they certainly do not work as primary weapon system. 50/50 damage split between turret and drone dps fits are viable, but moving a larger portion of damage into drones in their current state results in worse practical performance. This happened to the Myrmidon, the ability to field 4 heavies came with the cost of turret hardpoint, resulting in lower dps in most situations- as heavies are extremely niche, mediums are used.

Drones need their stats rebalanced as a weapon system, UI needs a complete overhaul, and their mechanics looked at.

So, the question is- is this going to happen, and when?

.

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#2 - 2013-05-05 10:20:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Abrazzar
The one biggest problem of drones is the inefficient AI and the awkward UI.
Masuka Taredi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-05-05 10:27:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Masuka Taredi
Also drones are one of many things hobbled by terrible legacy code that the whole system is based off. It's part of why new content/fixes can take so long as everything the devs do has to be awkwardly navigated around these minefields that are the games legacy code from 10 years ago. They can't change rate of fire of drones because of this even. So it's likely going to be a long time unless they dedicate more resources to rewriting the basecode properly to fix all the issues. Which is a risky thing in and of itself.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-05-05 10:33:08 UTC
i use an AC-shield tanked myrm, and i also have drones maxed out. myrm with 4 gardes/bouncers is ridiculously good in short-medium range situations like gate fights. i have no beef with that change.

but yes, as a domi pilot, im not a fan of the upcoming changes...as long as sentries cant follow the ship.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2013-05-05 10:42:08 UTC
Masuka Taredi wrote:
Also drones are one of many things hobbled by terrible legacy code that the whole system is based off. It's part of why new content/fixes can take so long as everything the devs do has to be awkwardly navigated around these minefields that are the games legacy code from 10 years ago. They can't change rate of fire of drones because of this even. So it's likely going to be a long time unless they dedicate more resources to rewriting the basecode properly to fix all the issues. Which is a risky thing in and of itself.

So the only option really is careful amputation and replacement with a new vat grown organ.

Is 'Code Surgeon' even a occupation?
Singoth
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-05-05 10:46:13 UTC
I'd rather see drones become empty hulls which need to be fitted with special drone modules designed for use on drones.

Each drone would have different PG and CPU, and some drones would have a bonus to their specialisation.
Drones will stop having just 1 damage type per drone, instead that would be dependant on what weapons you fit on the drone.


It would make drones FAR more complex, but then they would also feel much more part of the game.
Right now I see drones as a secondary weapon that I don't care too much about. Missiles are a secondary weapon as well, but at least those can be used as primary weapons with the right ship and fitting.
Drones are NEVER a good primary weapon unless you're in a carrier.


Further, a more intuitive UI for drones would be good. Right now it's really all right-click action. I want drones to be managable from the bottom UI you also use for your modules and seeing your shield/armor/structure/capacitor/overheating damage/etc.

Less yappin', more zappin'!

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#7 - 2013-05-05 10:48:20 UTC
People seem to be managing fine with them.
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#8 - 2013-05-05 10:53:15 UTC
Singoth wrote:
I'd rather see drones become empty hulls which need to be fitted with special drone modules designed for use on drones.

Each drone would have different PG and CPU, and some drones would have a bonus to their specialisation.
Drones will stop having just 1 damage type per drone, instead that would be dependant on what weapons you fit on the drone.


It would make drones FAR more complex, but then they would also feel much more part of the game.
Right now I see drones as a secondary weapon that I don't care too much about. Missiles are a secondary weapon as well, but at least those can be used as primary weapons with the right ship and fitting.
Drones are NEVER a good primary weapon unless you're in a carrier.


Further, a more intuitive UI for drones would be good. Right now it's really all right-click action. I want drones to be managable from the bottom UI you also use for your modules and seeing your shield/armor/structure/capacitor/overheating damage/etc.


This! +1

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Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-05-05 10:55:05 UTC
I think everyone knows what the problems are, with regard to PvE use anyway. And yes we've adapted, I mostly field two sets of faction sentries and a flight of lights for close encounters.

It's mostly the interface and lack of nanite repair capability. actually just being able to see which ones are poorly (in the bay) would be a great help.

forums.  serious business.

Josef Djugashvilis
#10 - 2013-05-05 11:00:43 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
People seem to be managing fine with them.


Remove the word, 'fine' and I agree with you.

This is not a signature.

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#11 - 2013-05-05 11:20:47 UTC
Drones aren't in an ideal place but they are still one of the most widely used weapons systems which means they can't be that badly broken. Cruise Missiles are in far more desperate need of an overhaul (which they are now getting, thankfully). I don't really know what CCP can do with drones, there is no easy fix for them.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#12 - 2013-05-05 11:22:07 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
People seem to be managing fine with them.


People have also been managing with POSs, that doesn't mean they aren't terrible.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#13 - 2013-05-05 11:25:23 UTC
I don't know anything about POSes.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2013-05-05 11:27:11 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Drones aren't in an ideal place but they are still one of the most widely used weapons systems which means they can't be that badly broken. Cruise Missiles are in far more desperate need of an overhaul (which they are now getting, thankfully). I don't really know what CCP can do with drones, there is no easy fix for them.


Cruise missile aren't a weapon system, they are one type of missiles, which are far more used as main weapons than drones.

Cruise missiles work much better than say, target painting drones, or heavy Caldari drones.



.

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#15 - 2013-05-05 11:30:58 UTC
So you're saying that because not all drones are useful in all situations, they need to be fixed? I disagree. You have the drones you need to do the job you want and they do it efficiently. I don't see you calling for Defender missiles to be fixed.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2013-05-05 11:48:48 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
So you're saying that because not all drones are useful in all situations, they need to be fixed? I disagree. You have the drones you need to do the job you want and they do it efficiently. I don't see you calling for Defender missiles to be fixed.


No, I'm saying that cruise and defender missiles are equal to drone types, they are not a weapon system. And that there are more broken drone types than broken missile types.

Of course all other broken weapons need to be fixed too, but this thread focuses on drones.

.

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#17 - 2013-05-05 11:57:55 UTC
What fixes would you like to see?
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-05-05 12:27:35 UTC
+1 for the OP. The domi overhaul made no sense, too; Gallente are supposed to have some sort of all-out DPS advantage over the amarr, at the cost of tank. The new 'geddon just does it better in both ways.

Dodixie > Hek

FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#19 - 2013-05-05 12:51:19 UTC
Defender missiles need to just be deleted.
Logan LaMort
Screaming Hayabusa
#20 - 2013-05-05 13:02:46 UTC
At least give us a proper interface for them.
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