Market Discussions

If the movement in price of say the Domi, Geddon etc is balanced by changes in mineral prices, thats one hell of a crash in mineral price.

I was pretty certain this change was coming....

I think this makes market speculation of minerals prices more difficult. Suddenly nullsec is receiving major boosts to ore yield of low ends, and suddenly most battleships require more low end minerals to manufacture.

a) No, because if you're not already loaded and established, you don't own tech moons. Increased BS cost will certainly make BCs even more attractive.

b) Yes, more stuff will be built in 0.0. Outposts are getting a large slot increase with Odyssey. Overall, I wouldn't expect any visible changes to how industry operates though. Industry corps won't be brought out to null, people will simply fly alts down to chew up the extra minerals and fill the slots.

I imagine we might see fewer JF pilots flying down T1 hulls of any size, preferring instead to bring down 425 Railguns now that there's production capacity to build said hulls.

No idea what, if any impact this might have, or even if the tope price increase will be enough to make up for the time delay and skill requirements, but that's about the only impact I'd expect.



1 Rhea load is ~7500 425 Railgun Is. 7500 Railguns is 14b ISK and 10m m3 of Minerals. The refining loss assuming ME 200 is ~8m ISK on all of that.

When alliances can effectively tax "industrial" (read: mining) corps, they might be brought in. Until (and possibly even after) then, "Industrial" corps will remain primarily a renter phenomena.

Most alliances do have many industrial players. Industry is supremely alt-friendly. Why bring in more people to manage when somebody who is already contributing is willing to do it without any new headaches?
Most alliances have people who mine rather than rat/mission/etc in their off time. No alliance I've ever been in had a problem with people doing that. Why do "industrial" corps' members have to be segregated?



Anyway, back on topic. I am superduper happy about this announcement.

In addition to that podcast/chat/sota I've had two other heavily industrialised friends complain that their alliance leadership basically has told them to sod off when they've asked for more consideration for the increased logistical needs, the increased mining, and the need for more protection.

Remember, if null doesn't mine its ice it will have to import from a high sec pool that only provide 80 per cent of the consumption. In test's case, Pizza were likely to permacamp their ice systems. In fountain it's going to be the Godfathers, etc. Null-sec culture isn't really there to cater to what needs to be done. Building t1 hulls will mean having to move a LOT of ore with freighters to the refineries, which will mean more isotopes used in the jump bridge networks. Those freighters will need to be protected. Miners need to be protected. You need a whole ecosystem for industrialists, and the first reactions I've had is that the pvp heavy alliances will have none of that. They'll just increase the cost for renters.

So, I see lots of drama ahead. Which is good. It means more isk to me.

I think its more likely that "excess" empire towers will shut down than that the null sec alliances cant afford to JF around the stuff. While inconvinient the isotope prices even excess of 2000 isk / unit are not sufficient to bankrupt your average null sec alliance which happens to be in control of the moons in its territory. What can and will, probably, happen with that excessive ice price is ofc taking down the POS towers on moons that are not worth it and are not there for some strategic reason like cyno gen, jump bridge or such.

With the 30 ly distance (fairly deep null, should be reasonably average for the null sec regions) a Rhea burns approx 30k isotopes (5-5-4 skills). So the fuel costs would be:
(1) 350 isk / unit - 10.5 mil isk - ~29 isk / m3
(2) 700 isk / unit - 21.0 mil isk - ~57.5 isk / m3
(3) 1400 isk / unit - 42. mil isk - ~115 isk / m3
(4) 2800 isk / unit - 84. mil isk - ~230 isk / m3

Ofc for the trip to there and back you will need to double the cost per m3 but it stands to reason these freighters would not be returning back to empire empty. Moon goo, PI materials, ice products, loot and salvage etc. can be dragged back to Jita for sale. With the increase in manufacturing slots you can now build the hulls locally from imported minerals. A Titans worth of minerals can be moved in approx three jump freighter loads with the right mix of compressed goods. 425 mm rails are just one of the most popular ones but there are items that can reach even slightly higher compression ratios. Tahyion beams, for example, reach 1:30 compression ratio last I looked.