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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Build Costs

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Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#161 - 2013-05-04 04:39:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Calathorn Virpio
Hagika wrote:
Illest Insurrectionist wrote:
Hagika wrote:
Illest Insurrectionist wrote:
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
OH BOY, MORE BARRIERS TO ENTRY FOR NEW PLAYERS!!!


1. New players shouldn't be flying battleships. They lack the support skills. They lack the financial support for replacement.

2. Bigger doesn't equal more fun.

3. The other re-balancing efforts have made great strides for newer players across the board. Good job completely ignoring those.



Because every Joe Schmoe has a right to jump from his Pinto to a Flashy 300,000 dollar 600 horsepower Ferrari.

It may not be smart and he will more than likely crash it, but its his right to do it. Same rule applies here. They may not be ready for a BS, but when they lose it, they gain experience on why not they should not be flying it.

It also provides us prowlers a yummy kill.

People do not need to be hand held and directed to fly certain ships as pushed by the Devs or isk cost.

My first real loss when I was a noob years ago was bringing out a Navy raven to a small gang fight. I had it poorly fitted and blew most of my isk on it.

When it got smashed, i realized my mistake real quick. People need that reminder., because most fail to listen to others because they do not like being told what to do in a game they play for fun.

They need to really understand why they do not need to be in it, by taking that loss and feeling the effects.

Did I also mention it gives us older players a yummy kill?


No. This is EVE.

You have a right to nothing.


My 15$ a month and training, says i have a right to fly what ever i choose.





seconded


(the school of hard nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most americans never meet the requirments to attend)

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#162 - 2013-05-04 04:41:20 UTC
Hagika wrote:
Emu Meo wrote:
Alexa Coates wrote:
wait so you're telling me all bs's will have similar prices? AND they're going to be shittier than current?

Have you been living in a alternate universe which is a direct parallel to our own? ;)


No, some people are just oblivious to the real world and like living under a rock. They are also the same people who cover their ears.. say, I cant hear you and scream lalalalalalalala over and over.





i do believe this is a perfect description of CCP at times

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Diziet Thomas
7-2 Ronin
#163 - 2013-05-04 04:45:55 UTC
The dev blog is pretty clear. CCP wants the battleships to cost more because eve players are rich.

The spin about making sure that mineral usage would change if they reduced the build cost to tier 2 levels is just spin. if they were honest about the subject they would just determine what the actual average mineral usage for battleship manufacturing is and set the number at that point. Sounds like it should be easy to quantify and still be able to make happy hour.

Instead they state in the dev blog eve players are rich they can afford it. If people don't like it don't buy it.
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#164 - 2013-05-04 04:52:55 UTC
Quote:
If people don't like it don't buy it.


This is what will probably happen, yes. People won't buy them.
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#165 - 2013-05-04 04:56:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Shade Millith
Oh freaking JOY. Check it out.

Another price increase for BS's. They're not yet expensive enough! Lets screw over people that don't make as much as the bigger players!

Geeze, I wonder if Wormholers making billions of isk in short amounts of time might be screwing with the averages.

Because I sure as hell don't remember that much of an increase in the money from L4's, plexing and other sources.

Heck, the price of BS's was already going to go up from these stupid ice mining changes. Lets tack on more cost.

I mean, L4's have been spitting out so much more ISK lately! Oh, wait, the bounties haven't changed.

Then plexing must have changed! Oh, wait, not than I can remember. In fact, they lost faction tower BP drops.

What about doing anoms? Well, they got nerfed a while back. Bounties still the same.
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#166 - 2013-05-04 05:04:11 UTC
Diziet Thomas wrote:
The dev blog is pretty clear. CCP wants the battleships to cost more because eve players are rich.

The spin about making sure that mineral usage would change if they reduced the build cost to tier 2 levels is just spin. if they were honest about the subject they would just determine what the actual average mineral usage for battleship manufacturing is and set the number at that point. Sounds like it should be easy to quantify and still be able to make happy hour.

Instead they state in the dev blog eve players are rich they can afford it. If people don't like it don't buy it.



lol, EVE players are NOT rich, null sec allainces are loaded, or was i mistaken about the fact that 70% of all wealth is in the hands of a few players?

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
BiggestT
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#167 - 2013-05-04 05:07:08 UTC  |  Edited by: BiggestT
Insurance better damn well cover these price increases, and I mean an exact relative refund to the increase so the %payout of insurance increases a little from current payouts (so the isk loss per hull remains the same).

If not:

Congratulations on a futile effort.

You boost battleships by a tiny amount. Then you increase costs by a significant amount.
Seem fair? I think not!

Hell the rokh was nerfed, the scorp gets a low slot and the raven gets a med slot and loses ehp. (But their sig got better!!!11) The domi loses a damage bonus too.

And then you increase huge price hikes like this!??

Raven was what (correct me if wrong), ~140mill, Scorp was ~100mill. Now they're ~230... TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY MILLION??

NO ONE will fly a raven, scorp, mega, domi etc. etc. etc if you don't increase insurance significantly.

This may actually hurt producers if no one will buy their product!

What a waste of time this battleship reiteration was, we were better off before Roll

You want a bigger isk sink? Guess what, the average joe of Eve isn't some multi-billionare moon miner that can throw away their isk, you're not helping anyone.

/rant.

EDIT: In addition:

You say "DON'T REDUCE TIER 3 BS COSTS = BAD FOR MINING!!!"
Yet you forget: TIER 1 AND TIER 2 COST INCREASE = ALREADY A BOOST FOR MINING!!!??

Miners are already getting a buff from the tier 1 increase. If you instead increased all BS production to just a tad above the current tier 2 cost, miners' losses would be non existant, expecially considering the ships will actually sell much better. This is becasue they will be used more often in this case, with a lower production cost matching the average-at-best BS combat changes.
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#168 - 2013-05-04 05:12:26 UTC
BiggestT wrote:
Insurance better damn well cover these price increases, and I mean an exact relative refund to the increase so the %payout of insurance increases a little from current payouts (so the isk loss per hull remains the same).

If not:

Congratulations on a futile effort.

You boost battleships by a tiny amount. Then you increase costs by a significant amount.
Seem fair? I think not!

Hell the rokh was nerfed, the scorp gets a low slot and the raven gets a med slot and loses ehp. (But their sig got better!!!11) The domi loses a damage bonus too.

And then you increase huge price hikes like this!??

Raven was what (correct me if wrong), ~140mill, Scorp was ~100mill. Now they're ~230... TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY MILLION??

NO ONE will fly a raven, scorp, mega, domi etc. etc. etc if you don't increase insurance significantly.

This may actually hurt producers if no one will buy their product!

What a waste of time this battleship reiteration was, we were better off before Roll

You want a bigger isk sink? Guess what, the average joe of Eve isn't some multi-billionare moon miner that can throw away their isk, you're not helping anyone.

/rant.





i like this, points out the critical flaws

(and don't forget the Ammar BS's, CCP seems to be going along the lines of "lets **** up every ship that's NOT gallente or minmmatar")

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Taritura
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#169 - 2013-05-04 05:16:27 UTC
That's happens when economist start saying what the game should look like....
I'm having more doubts that CCP at all plays the game. You need to stop watching the excel and try to play the game....
Yeah you might say it's balanced but it's f... useless at that price.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#170 - 2013-05-04 05:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Knight
Calathorn Virpio wrote:


i like this, points out the critical flaws

(and don't forget the Ammar BS's, CCP seems to be going along the lines of "lets **** up every ship that's NOT gallente or minmmatar")

Yeah matar fanboy devs and now the new gall fanboy dev whose favourite ship is the talos , no wonder battleships and especially not matar/gall are pretty bad.

And as others said , people wont use battleships if they think it wont worth the costs ---> probably even less minerals will be used up

Btw why not increase frigs/cruisers costs then too? They are used a lot ,could be a great miner sink ^^
Also ammo should cost much more + t1 crystals should get dmg +drones should cost ammo too great isk sinks right there :O
or warping should cost fuel -> another isk sink
logging on should cost isk --> another one
oh and posting on forum should cost a lot this would be even better as it would greatly reduce the qq posts like this :)
one is better than the other do it ccp!!!!
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#171 - 2013-05-04 05:28:26 UTC
BiggestT wrote:
Insurance better damn well cover these price increases, and I mean an exact relative refund to the increase so the %payout of insurance increases a little from current payouts (so the isk loss per hull remains the same).

If not:

Congratulations on a futile effort.

You boost battleships by a tiny amount. Then you increase costs by a significant amount.
Seem fair? I think not!

Hell the rokh was nerfed, the scorp gets a low slot and the raven gets a med slot and loses ehp. (But their sig got better!!!11) The domi loses a damage bonus too.

And then you increase huge price hikes like this!??

Raven was what (correct me if wrong), ~140mill, Scorp was ~100mill. Now they're ~230... TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY MILLION??

NO ONE will fly a raven, scorp, mega, domi etc. etc. etc if you don't increase insurance significantly.

This may actually hurt producers if no one will buy their product!

What a waste of time this battleship reiteration was, we were better off before Roll

You want a bigger isk sink? Guess what, the average joe of Eve isn't some multi-billionare moon miner that can throw away their isk, you're not helping anyone.

/rant.



Hell the Raven an Scorp were not worth the price they were before. They certainly are not worth the price now. They are junk ships that received poorly thought out buffs. Its pretty obvious CCP does not play their game much.

Doubtful they play anything caldari past Battlecruisers.
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#172 - 2013-05-04 05:33:08 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Calathorn Virpio wrote:


i like this, points out the critical flaws

(and don't forget the Ammar BS's, CCP seems to be going along the lines of "lets **** up every ship that's NOT gallente or minmmatar")

Yeah matar fanboy devs and now the new gall fanboy dev whose favourite ship is the talos , no wonder battleships and especially not matar/gall are pretty bad.

And as others said , people wont use battleships if they think it wont worth the costs ---> probably even less minerals will be used up

Btw why not increase frigs/cruisers costs then too? They are used a lot ,could be a great miner sink ^^
Also ammo should cost much more + t1 crystals should get dmg +drones should cost ammo too great isk sinks right there :O
or warping should cost fuel -> another isk sink
logging on should cost isk --> another one
one is better than the other do it ccp!!!!


More proof in that from how they just buffed the Matar dread and removed the launchers and put it to turrets and gave it a huge bonus, turning it into pretty much the best dread in game, and said nothing about the phoenix and nothing on capital missile weapons.
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#173 - 2013-05-04 05:36:06 UTC
Taritura wrote:
That's happens when economist start saying what the game should look like....
I'm having more doubts that CCP at all plays the game. You need to stop watching the excel and try to play the game....
Yeah you might say it's balanced but it's f... useless at that price.




they play the game, only problem is...they have infinite isk!

oh! and can spawn in whatever ship they want, WHEREVER they want.....or did y'all forget the capitals in luminare?

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#174 - 2013-05-04 05:43:05 UTC
This will really hurt newer players.

If they are smart and follow the 'don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it' - it will be a lot longer until they can get into a battleship hull than it is now. If they are foolish and get into a BS hull before they can afford a loss, the likely loss will hurt them even more.

Given that, for ~4-5m SP pilots, battleships are by far the best PVE ships available to them, this will hurt PVE oriented newbies badly. And it will also result in less battleships fielded in PVP engagements - players with 1-2b in assets won't be able to shrug off a Dominix loss the way they can now.

This will lead to more risk aversion, just as the changes to t1 cruisers have made newer players less willing to risk one of those in PVP than they were a year ago when the boats were a lot cheaper.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#175 - 2013-05-04 05:47:05 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
This will really hurt newer players.

If they are smart and follow the 'don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it' - it will be a lot longer until they can get into a battleship hull than it is now. If they are foolish and get into a BS hull before they can afford a loss, the likely loss will hurt them even more.

Given that, for ~4-5m SP pilots, battleships are by far the best PVE ships available to them, this will hurt PVE oriented newbies badly. And it will also result in less battleships fielded in PVP engagements - players with 1-2b in assets won't be able to shrug off a Dominix loss the way they can now.

This will lead to more risk aversion, just as the changes to t1 cruisers have made newer players less willing to risk one of those in PVP than they were a year ago when the boats were a lot cheaper.



agreed, fully fitted a maller and did a double take at the hit my wallet took.

and CCP seem to forget that mission runners=BPC's, salvage, and decent random module drops.

keep screwing over the new players and they wont come back, prices will rise on modules and faction items......the list goes on, people may sneer at the mission runners, but try finding navy ships and **** without them.....

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2013-05-04 05:47:49 UTC
I was waiting for this change to be announced! I had purchased 2 of each tier 1 and 1 of each tier 2 battleship a while back. Looks like my investment will pan out! :D

Also, can't CCP just put a tag on old battleships and have them reprocess for the old amounts, and have all the new battleships reprocess for the new amount?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#177 - 2013-05-04 05:53:07 UTC
Hagika wrote:


More proof in that from how they just buffed the Matar dread and removed the launchers and put it to turrets and gave it a huge bonus, turning it into pretty much the best dread in game, and said nothing about the phoenix and nothing on capital missile weapons.

:)
Oh i love that dread boost , the naglfar will be so minmatar , with being just better than the other dreads it is so minmatarish.

Also love how the loki became the no1 t3 ship for pvp too, ccp-s quick reaction to nerf the tengu payed off pretty well.

Isnt it strange when a caldari boat shows up on top 20 it suddenly gets a nerf?
Falcon->nerfed
Drake-> nerfed+will be nerfed as it still shows up on the list
Tengu->nerfed
Rokh->soon to be nerfed
Naga->probably will get a nerf soon^^

but when minmatar ships are there nothing is done as they work as intended,intended to be the superior ships for pvp
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#178 - 2013-05-04 05:58:23 UTC
I bow down to our new Attack Battle Cruiser Overlords, no but really if CCP's goal is to reduce the battleship numbers in use then I guess this is one way to go about it. I just wasn't aware that there was an issue with battleship populations in game. If these changes are to help float minerals prices then why put the burden on just one class of ship?



Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#179 - 2013-05-04 06:01:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Calathorn Virpio
Naomi Knight wrote:
Hagika wrote:


More proof in that from how they just buffed the Matar dread and removed the launchers and put it to turrets and gave it a huge bonus, turning it into pretty much the best dread in game, and said nothing about the phoenix and nothing on capital missile weapons.

:)
Oh i love that dread boost , the naglfar will be so minmatar , with being just better than the other dreads it is so minmatarish.

Also love how the loki became the no1 t3 ship for pvp too, ccp-s quick reaction to nerf the tengu payed off pretty well.

Isnt it strange when a caldari boat shows up on top 20 it suddenly gets a nerf?
Falcon->nerfed
Drake-> nerfed+will be nerfed as it still shows up on the list
Tengu->nerfed
Rokh->soon to be nerfed
Naga->probably will get a nerf soon^^

but when minmatar ships are there nothing is done as they work as intended,intended to be the superior ships for pvp



leave my rokh and naga alone!


and tengu?Shocked

i thought that was the shittiest for PVP best for PVE.....

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Illest Insurrectionist
Sparta.
#180 - 2013-05-04 06:48:52 UTC
Hagika wrote:


My 15$ a month and training, says i have a right to fly what ever i choose.


No. No it doesn't.

If you can't afford to fly it too bad.