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Odyssey Patch Speculation Thread

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mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#141 - 2013-05-03 01:38:59 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
mynnna wrote:
And more to the point, the fact that the "if I can't AFK it it's not worth it" meme is even a thing is evidence of a fundamental wrongness in the game, which I am exceedingly happy to see them correct.


I've always said that Eve is designed to have an appeal to the entire spectrum of gameplay. From the ultra-extreme hardcore gamer to the ultra-relaxed casual player. If ice was appealing to the ultra-relaxed then Eve is big enough for that style of gameplay and whose anyone to say that their style of play isn't 'acceptable'.

yk


I have trouble defining "that style of gameplay" as actual gameplay, considering there's barely any actual interaction with the game. I'm equally skeptical of calling things like "afktar" ratting - that is, warping an Ishtar with sentries into an anomaly and going afk while your drones wipe out the anomaly - "gameplay" too, for the record, so this isn't just some sort of bias or crusade against highsec.

Casual gameplay, in my mind, means something a player who can only log in for a short period of time can undock and go and complete. The new exploration stuff is a great example of this. It's quick, interesting, probably is fairly rewarding, and most importantly, there's actual player/game engagement. You know, "gameplay".

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
YuuKnow
The Scope
#142 - 2013-05-03 02:31:26 UTC
mynnna wrote:
I have trouble defining "that style of gameplay" as actual gameplay, considering there's barely any actual interaction with the game. I'm equally skeptical of calling things like "afktar" ratting - that is, warping an Ishtar with sentries into an anomaly and going afk while your drones wipe out the anomaly - "gameplay" too, for the record, so this isn't just some sort of bias or crusade against highsec.

Casual gameplay, in my mind, means something a player who can only log in for a short period of time can undock and go and complete. The new exploration stuff is a great example of this. It's quick, interesting, probably is fairly rewarding, and most importantly, there's actual player/game engagement. You know, "gameplay".


Semantics.

The fact is that that style of play appeals to a certain sect of the player-base and who is someone else to dictate whether its acceptable or not.

yk
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#143 - 2013-05-03 03:02:18 UTC
Distinguishing the difference between actual interaction with and engagement by the game and entering a few commands every twenty minutes is not "semantics."

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#144 - 2013-05-03 03:06:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
YuuKnow wrote:
Semantics.


"A game is structured playing, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool. Games are distinct from work, which is usually carried out for remuneration, and from art, which is more often an expression of aesthetic or ideological elements. However, the distinction is not clear-cut, and many games are also considered to be work (such as professional players of spectator sports/games) or art (such as jigsaw puzzles or games involving an artistic layout such as Mahjong, solitaire, or some video games).

Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction. Games generally involve mental or physical stimulation, and often both. Many games help develop practical skills, serve as a form of exercise, or otherwise perform an educational, simulational, or psychological role."

It's painfully obvious that pressing three buttons and than walking away from the keyboard for 20 minutes fulfills none of the above criteria even remotely. Don't get me wrong here - I "AFK" ice mine like everyone else while writing, drawing, or playing other games - but I'm not so ignorant as to pretend I'm actually playing a game while sucking down isotopes.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
YuuKnow
The Scope
#145 - 2013-05-03 06:04:32 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
Quote:
World English Dictionary

game 1 (ɡeɪm) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

— n
1. an amusement or pastime; diversion


All that is required.

An again. If you don't find it appealing, then don't do it. Duh. For those that otherwise liked the slow, lackadaisical minimalism that still allows them to login to the make-believe sci-fi fiction of Eve, then so be it.

What's your argument? That mining trit requires 3 button pushes every 5 minutes, so its 'gameplay', but mining ice requires 3 button pushes every 30 minutes so that is not? Completely arbitrary. Your not them and you can't dictate what they do or don't enjoy.

yk
Chief Ambassador
Doomheim
#146 - 2013-05-03 10:57:03 UTC
I think the price of supers will go down by 30% or so.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#147 - 2013-05-03 12:57:33 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
Quote:
World English Dictionary

game 1 (ɡeɪm) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

— n
1. an amusement or pastime; diversion


All that is required.

An again. If you don't find it appealing, then don't do it. Duh. For those that otherwise liked the slow, lackadaisical minimalism that still allows them to login to the make-believe sci-fi fiction of Eve, then so be it.

What's your argument? That mining trit requires 3 button pushes every 5 minutes, so its 'gameplay', but mining ice requires 3 button pushes every 30 minutes so that is not? Completely arbitrary. Your not them and you can't dictate what they do or don't enjoy.

yk

an argument from the dictionary when discussing technical matters is the equivalent of a dunce cap
Chief Ambassador
Doomheim
#148 - 2013-05-03 15:49:13 UTC
So what do you guys think will happen to super prices?

1. Stay the same.
2. Go down. (if so by what %)
3. Go up.
Zedutchman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2013-05-03 17:00:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Zedutchman
mynnna wrote:


I have trouble defining "that style of gameplay" as actual gameplay, considering there's barely any actual interaction with the game.


I'm not certain why this is such a point of contention for you. As Yuuknow pointed out it doesn't really effect you so why do you care? However, since that didn't put you off your attack I will make a single point.


CCP IS changing ice mining. Therefore your argument over it's current state is not only an entirely moot, but has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

____________________________________________

And I agree That Super Prices will likely decrease with the new changes.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#150 - 2013-05-03 17:09:22 UTC
Zedutchman wrote:
mynnna wrote:


I have trouble defining "that style of gameplay" as actual gameplay, considering there's barely any actual interaction with the game.


I'm not certain why this is such a point of contention for you. As Yuuknow pointed out it doesn't really effect you so why do you care? However, since that didn't put you off your attack I will make a single point.


CCP IS changing ice mining. Therefore your argument over it's current state is not only an entirely moot, but has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.


On the contrary, my argument regarding the current state of mining is extremely relevant, as CCP's changes - taking away the ability to do extremely low interaction "gameplay" all day long and replacing it with something that demands a higher level of interaction - demonstrates that they feel the same way.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
YuuKnow
The Scope
#151 - 2013-05-03 23:21:28 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
mynnna wrote:
On the contrary, my argument regarding the current state of mining is extremely relevant, as CCP's changes - taking away the ability to do extremely low interaction "gameplay" all day long and replacing it with something that demands a higher level of interaction - demonstrates that they feel the same way.


Can't say that I read minds, but my impression was that the ice changes were less about eliminating afk'er and more about turning ice into the conflict-driver that it had the potential to become. Resource competition and economic incentive are generally good conflict-drivers, and the presence of an infinite/never-depleting rock that could be mined forever didn't have any contribution to the economic conflicts that help to make Eve interesting. Turning ice more into the Eve version of RL oil, and rightfully so, makes things more dynamic, which I think everyone would agree with.

But hopefully not because ccp wanted to suppress the game-style of some of its players which choose solo mine or afk miner play.

yk
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#152 - 2013-05-04 00:39:24 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
Can't say that I read minds, but my impression was that the ice changes were less about eliminating afk'er and more about turning ice into the conflict-driver that it had the potential to become. Resource competition and economic incentive are generally good conflict-drivers, and the presence of an infinite/never-depleting rock that could be mined forever didn't have any contribution to the economic conflicts that help to make Eve interesting. Turning ice more into the Eve version of RL oil, and rightfully so, makes things more dynamic, which I think everyone would agree with.

But hopefully not because ccp wanted to suppress the game-style of some of its players which choose solo mine or afk miner play.

yk


What an astonishing post. How can you even attempt to justify AFK behaviour in an MMO?

I badly want to gank an AFK miner now. If I find one I will direct them here for reference.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#153 - 2013-05-04 04:36:00 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
mynnna wrote:
On the contrary, my argument regarding the current state of mining is extremely relevant, as CCP's changes - taking away the ability to do extremely low interaction "gameplay" all day long and replacing it with something that demands a higher level of interaction - demonstrates that they feel the same way.


Can't say that I read minds, but my impression was that the ice changes were less about eliminating afk'er and more about turning ice into the conflict-driver that it had the potential to become. Resource competition and economic incentive are generally good conflict-drivers, and the presence of an infinite/never-depleting rock that could be mined forever didn't have any contribution to the economic conflicts that help to make Eve interesting. Turning ice more into the Eve version of RL oil, and rightfully so, makes things more dynamic, which I think everyone would agree with.


I...

wait...

why are we even arguing again? We seem to agree.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
OfBalance
Caldari State
#154 - 2013-05-04 04:50:32 UTC
Chief Ambassador wrote:
So what do you guys think will happen to super prices?

1. Stay the same.
2. Go down. (if so by what %)
3. Go up.


4. Death to all?
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2013-05-04 20:08:29 UTC
mynnna wrote:
YuuKnow wrote:
mynnna wrote:
On the contrary, my argument regarding the current state of mining is extremely relevant, as CCP's changes - taking away the ability to do extremely low interaction "gameplay" all day long and replacing it with something that demands a higher level of interaction - demonstrates that they feel the same way.


Can't say that I read minds, but my impression was that the ice changes were less about eliminating afk'er and more about turning ice into the conflict-driver that it had the potential to become. Resource competition and economic incentive are generally good conflict-drivers, and the presence of an infinite/never-depleting rock that could be mined forever didn't have any contribution to the economic conflicts that help to make Eve interesting. Turning ice more into the Eve version of RL oil, and rightfully so, makes things more dynamic, which I think everyone would agree with.


I...

wait...

why are we even arguing again? We seem to agree.


I just saw all these pages you have been busying doing outreach to the unwashed masses. The CSM job sucks.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#156 - 2013-05-05 00:48:19 UTC
mynnna wrote:
YuuKnow wrote:
mynnna wrote:
On the contrary, my argument regarding the current state of mining is extremely relevant, as CCP's changes - taking away the ability to do extremely low interaction "gameplay" all day long and replacing it with something that demands a higher level of interaction - demonstrates that they feel the same way.


Can't say that I read minds, but my impression was that the ice changes were less about eliminating afk'er and more about turning ice into the conflict-driver that it had the potential to become. Resource competition and economic incentive are generally good conflict-drivers, and the presence of an infinite/never-depleting rock that could be mined forever didn't have any contribution to the economic conflicts that help to make Eve interesting. Turning ice more into the Eve version of RL oil, and rightfully so, makes things more dynamic, which I think everyone would agree with.


I...

wait...

why are we even arguing again? We seem to agree.


Not arguing. I think everyone thinks the ice changes are good for the game.

I just think that one of the things that make Eve great is that their are sooooooo many different styles of play. I hate seeing one sec of players trying to dictate the 'acceptable' play styles to another sec. Eve's big enough for everyone's style.

yk
Drachiel
Mercury LLC
#157 - 2013-05-08 23:27:11 UTC
Battleships go up, up up!

Most have around 30M to climb just to make up for the new build costs.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#158 - 2013-05-08 23:35:44 UTC
On a semi-random note. Anyone know the percentage of POS that are in WH space, null sec space, and low-sec space respectively? Seems like a conveniently missing piece of data for speculation purposes.

yk
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#159 - 2013-05-08 23:44:46 UTC

The gnosis will be the ultimate surprise win. Just wait and see.... Lol

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Idol1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#160 - 2013-05-10 03:47:44 UTC
People mine ice exactly because it's easy money. Make it a PITA to mine ice and no one is going to mine ice. It just won't be worth it. You can make much more money mining ore even now that the ice is endless. Put a limit on the amount of ice combined with a 4 hour possible wait time and no one is going to touch the stuff.