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Useless GILA & scout drones
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Baggo Hammers
#21 - 2013-05-03 22:37:25 UTC
I never use heavies. Never have. Moot to me. Sentries with a Gila.

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Nagnor
The Happy Shooters
#22 - 2013-05-03 22:44:01 UTC
Hakaimono wrote:

...
Why should they make heavies viable for pve? I dont see why they need to cater to pve. Sentries are doing the job well enough.

If the heavies could actually take some damage, you could use them to kill cruisers and BSs while slow boating to the next gate. (To be honest MJD also contributed to making this approach obsolete. 100km in 1 jump. If you can do a bit of math, do 2 zig-zag jumps to cover any distance between 0 and 200km)
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-05-03 23:02:28 UTC
Nagnor wrote:

- (Faction) Gardes for frigates further out, cruiser/BS up close
- (Faction) Bouncers/Wardens/Curators for cruisers/BS further out
Faction Sentries have 2 times the HP of T2 sentries so that can take some damage.


Please don't tell the newbie with problems losing drones to use faction drones. That's not nice.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-05-04 00:20:35 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Yeah, I get it, ppl don't use heavies (I almost never use either, actually), because... they suck. They've sucked before, and now instead of fixing them, CCP just puts the nail into that coffin - make them not only suck but unmanageable and completely unusable. Nice going there.Roll
Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#25 - 2013-05-04 00:32:14 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
Ok. After all the updates they made, what's the use for that setup of gila with heavy drones onboard?
Obviously it's not handy any longer against NPC and there is no advantage in high drones' damage of almost 300 dps.
How do we use heavy drones now?
And after all, why GILA is still so expensive (even though it became useless now)???


Noob whine aside, your point about current state of heavy drones is right on. Npc aggro has killed their viability completely, unlike smaller drones and sentries. Even forum trolls here would have trouble disputing this.

Unlike smaller drones, all sized rats aggro heavy drones. Unlike sentries, they have no tank and can't be scooped instantly. Between BS volley, low speed, and full aggro, there's zero chance to pull them back in time.

The aggro based on size implemented soon after rat AI was added fixed smaller drones, but left heavies broken. Heavies are the largest, slowest, and most vulnerable, yet CCP devs seem to think they need the most aggro - a sign devs don't actually play this game, especially the pve part of it.



Heavies are best used with a fast ship + orbit so you can quickly recall if they get argo'ed. Even then if they are on a BS they should be under its effective range.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-05-04 00:39:28 UTC
Mister Tuggles wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
Ok. After all the updates they made, what's the use for that setup of gila with heavy drones onboard?
Obviously it's not handy any longer against NPC and there is no advantage in high drones' damage of almost 300 dps.
How do we use heavy drones now?
And after all, why GILA is still so expensive (even though it became useless now)???


Noob whine aside, your point about current state of heavy drones is right on. Npc aggro has killed their viability completely, unlike smaller drones and sentries. Even forum trolls here would have trouble disputing this.

Unlike smaller drones, all sized rats aggro heavy drones. Unlike sentries, they have no tank and can't be scooped instantly. Between BS volley, low speed, and full aggro, there's zero chance to pull them back in time.

The aggro based on size implemented soon after rat AI was added fixed smaller drones, but left heavies broken. Heavies are the largest, slowest, and most vulnerable, yet CCP devs seem to think they need the most aggro - a sign devs don't actually play this game, especially the pve part of it.



Heavies are best used with a fast ship + orbit so you can quickly recall if they get argo'ed. Even then if they are on a BS they should be under its effective range.


This shows you haven't actually used large drones post nerf. Even if you're in range to scoop (you shouldn't be, as they orbit rats), a decent sized pocket can alpha them. Instatpop = no management possible. Remember, BS aggro these, unlike with other drones, which is what this is all about.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-05-04 01:26:18 UTC
There'd be a lot more crying if a change was implemented that made all Large Turrets & Cruise/Torps totally ineffective.



The Gila has 2 main Strengths, it's Drone Bay & It's Shield Tank.
With Missiles you wont even get close to 100 DPS from the Gila, use either HM's, HAM's, RAM's or nothing.
With Drones you should be looking at upto 750(ish) DPS

For pve load the Bay with 10 Hobgoblins, 10 Hammerheads and 10 Gardes
If you can't use the Tech 2 version of those Drones yet, park your Gila in a hanger, and use a Vexor or Caracal instead. (or a Drake/Myrmidon for L3's)

Train Drone Interfacing 5, for the Gila it's a super important skill.
Zophiel Zedek
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-05-04 02:30:44 UTC
^^ this.

My Gila is also fully T2 for fit and sentries. And like the above said, if you're not able to use T2 sentries and scout drones AND fit a good T2 or better shield tank, put the Gila in the garage and use a more suitable ship for your skill points.

I need to log in and check, but I think my Gila with T2 Sentries are right at 500-800dps depending on which range i chose to engage at.

In addition, you want to increase your ship's (the gila) and you need to learn more about aggro.
I'm not sure if this is currently viable, but up to a few months ago, if you made a ship that had many methods of threat generation the ai would target that first.

examples of threat:
ability to do damage and different ways to cause it.
ability to repair damage
ability to steal energy
etc there is a post about this somewhere.
GreenSeed
#29 - 2013-05-04 06:06:57 UTC
your problem are the drones, you don't need heavies on lvl3s, you don't need heavies anywhere...

switch to lights, or fit two faction Omnilinks, 3 drone damage mods on lows and snipe with sentries... which is the way you should be flying the gila, at least on missions. use the highs for one or two dcus, plus RR to keep your sentries in shape. maybe fit 2 or 3 rocket launchers to kill frigs that get too close.

also your skills seem awfully low, a gila needs both cruiser skills at least at lvl4, you can maybe leave cald cruiser 4 for later if you are on lvl3s. and drone boats don't really work unless you have interfacing at 4. if you had either of those skills at 3 your dps would be higher than 300dps.. so you are still a week or two from flying it semi properly.

a properly skilled and flown gila can do lvl4s with a small shield boster and the lows filled with drone damage mods.
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN
0100 bit Republic
#30 - 2013-05-04 08:23:55 UTC
Thanks everybody pointed out an option of having sentry drones on Gila. Should try it one day. (as gila is sold)
It was just important for me to know is it's not only my problem with heavy drones.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#31 - 2013-05-04 08:46:17 UTC
Heavy drones are fine for PVE - I use them from a blaster navy 'thron without losses fine. I also use bouncers and berserkers from a Dominix for angels, and I do not lose zerkers.
Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#32 - 2013-05-04 10:41:52 UTC
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
Thanks everybody pointed out an option of having sentry drones on Gila. Should try it one day. (as gila is sold)
It was just important for me to know is it's not only my problem with heavy drones.


wanna buy one? :P. Heavies are for pvp, sentries are for pve (mostly)
Melikor Tissant
Odd Fluffy Bunnies
#33 - 2013-05-04 11:59:58 UTC
I'll put just my small input.

Drones need to be micro-managed in PvE.
Frigate NPCs will always aggro medium drones very quickly, even if you are trying to generate aggro on them.
Cruiser/BC NPCs will also have a lot of hatred toward heavy drones.

For PvE, you either use small drones against frigates to clear them, and than start to use medium drones, or you use sentry drones and run closer to the NPC and aggro them.

The reason is mainly because the changes to NPC ships AI was done awhile ago. They no longer keep aggro on you, but switch to your drones, depends on what type of drones you have out.

Also as stated earlier, for level 3 missions, there is no use for heavy drones. You will want 1-2 flights of small, medium and sentry drones. Heavies can't hit frigates that well, and take aggro very quickly.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-05-04 13:04:46 UTC
One other thing I've noticed from experimenting with a mission-fit Gila:

Carry a small remote armor rep. If your drones catch aggro, lock one up, hit it with the RAR, and the NPC AI will very quickly classify you as a logistics boat, which gets aggro priority over drones.

That said, I've seen a CN Warden tanking aggro from three battleships and a couple of cruisers without being fazed. Of course, that's with Gallente Cruiser V for the 50% hitpoint bonus.

And it's true, training up T2 sentries is a slog, but it's not much worse than training up any T2 battleship weapon, and you only need to do it once (barring clone mishaps).

Heavies at this point are pretty much restricted to point-blank range, where their combined bonuses give them a DPS edge over sentries.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Baggo Hammers
#35 - 2013-05-04 16:38:14 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:

Buy the way, With my skills and setup I had 285dps by drones & around 30dps by missiles.


SO not even close to being ready to fly a gila.


Renders this whole whine thread useless...


285dps????? level 2 maybe

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
M'iranna
Sanctum of Citizens
#36 - 2013-05-04 18:53:25 UTC
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
Ok. After all the updates they made, what's the use for that setup of gila with heavy drones onboard?
Obviously it's not handy any longer against NPC and there is no advantage in high drones' damage of almost 300 dps.
How do we use heavy drones now?
And after all, why GILA is still so expensive (even though it became useless now)???

Not useless at all. I use my Gila for level 4 missions.I have 800 DPS only with drones (sentries) using 4 drone damage amplifiers.
Forget the heavy drones, use either sentries for level 4 missions and medium scouts for level 3s.
Oh, and max out your drone skills of you are really serious about using them. T2 drones, and max skills make a huge difference.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#37 - 2013-05-04 23:49:02 UTC
Heavy drones don't work well from long range. However, when added to a blaster ship, where you're MWDing on top of everything anyway, they're quite nice. Launch heavies in blaster range, engage, kill target, scoop drones, repeat.

thhief ghabmoef
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-05-05 00:53:39 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Heavy drones don't work well from long range. However, when added to a blaster ship, where you're MWDing on top of everything anyway, they're quite nice. Launch heavies in blaster range, engage, kill target, scoop drones, repeat.


You have to get in blaster range first, which is a whole other issue...
Yami Badasaz
The Black Widow Company.
#39 - 2013-05-05 01:56:09 UTC
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
I have made a petition about it, but was redirected to the forum. Here we go.
I finally have gained some isk for my little dream which GILA used to be.
Have bought one, fitted for PVE (lvl 3 missions), stocked with OGREs (heavy attack drones) and went for a lvl 3 security mission.
So the point of all the topic is... DEATH. But not a ship, but drones.
So Gila, which is a sort of micro-carrier (400m^3 & 125mbit/sec bandwith for drones) have no any other highlits. So drones are the main point of this cruiser.
Buy the way, With my skills and setup I had 285dps by drones & around 30dps by missiles. So everything this GILA is needed is for carrying 5 heavy attack drones.

Ok. What I can not understand is... WHY DRONES DIE SO FAST!!!
I have lost fill drone bay of heavy attack drones and couldn't finish lvl 3 mission with 16 of em. Had to go for another 16 drones. And it happened because even if I attack NPC with my missiles first and just after that launch drones, NPC start attacking my drones instead of me even while drones are still on the way to NPC.
I was disappointed with me being had to HIDE MY DRONES FROM npc..

Whattahell????
I have GILA which is entitled to carry drones and use it against NPC. WHY I have to hide em instead of using em as fighters?
And you could ask, why I was hiding em indeed?
Because I could have lost at least 1 of em on drones' way to NPC (35kms away max for me) and then all the rest in just seconds as heavy attack drones are weak against NPC's cruisers and battlecruisers.

So, dear DEV team, Why, WHY NPC attack drones right the way after launching em? Why drones die so fast? Why ~250kk pirate fraction cruiser is so expensive and so useless? Why there is no way to keep all the NPC's damage being taken by ship and not drones?
And finally, What is the point of having scout drones in the game if they are being attacked so much and killed so fast?




Stop being bad.


/thread


(The Gila is a great ship BTW your skills just suck and most likely so does your fit. Pirate ships aren't something you fly with out really good skills. I started playing one month before you did and i wouldn't even waste the isk on a Gila because i know my skills wouldn't be up to snuff to use it right.)



Also an example of why the Gila is good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9Y9TzI4lDY

Austin McLaren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-05-08 09:02:40 UTC
Baggo Hammers wrote:
I never use heavies. Never have. Moot to me. Sentries with a Gila.

This man speaks the truth, heavies have always sucked.
Sentries for pve win and yes the faction versions have great ehp and decent dps.
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