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profitability between high and null... i don't get it.
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Raid'En
#21 - 2011-10-31 16:30:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Raid'En
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Just don't beg CCP to tarnish regions designed with pvp in mind because you are obsessed with isk.

make sense to me that if you want to battle for a place, it's because this place give you more (isk ? e-peen ?) than another.
EVE is a game where you battle for territories and ressources. and if you want to abttle for them, there must be a reason to.
if the only thing you want is something to shoot, there's easier way than nullsec, like RvB for example.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#22 - 2011-10-31 17:34:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Sorry if this is harsh, but if you aren't making more in null doing anomalies than you are in high sec running missions, you're doing something terribly, HORRIBLY wrong.

I have 4 accounts, I maintain them all from the isk I make doing anoms (with a few bil left over). I've lived (and thus ratted / done anoms) in every corner of null sec except Sansha space (although I did occasionally go do some sansha plexes with friends who lived next do to tenerifis where I lived at the time). Again, if you aren't making hand over fist isk from anoms, YOU are doing something wrong.

Hell, you don't even need an upgraded system, "natural" anoms collect in dead end and underused null sec systems because more of the resident of a given region only do anoms in upgraded systems.

You have to use the right ships, the right ammo, and pick the right ones ("Sanctums" are for the unimaginative ones among us lol). As of right now, I "live" in guristas space and dual box anoms, 20 mil a tick per toon is the LOW END lol. I don't even include faction spawns and escalations in my income calculations, but those are a bonus. Made a bil off of a escalated Dread Guristas Fleet Staging point last night, for example. 1 hour a night of farming anoms pays for 4 accounts with plenty of isk left over to spend like a fool....

If you bother to tell me what rats you are trying to kill, I can tell you exactly where you are going wrong. But (to beat a dead horse), null sec is fine, it's whatever you are doing is what the problem is
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#23 - 2011-10-31 17:41:13 UTC
Sandrestal wrote:
King Rothgar wrote:
Anoms have 4 advantages over missions: you don't have to change systems, you don't have to dock, bigger spawn size and bigger bounty per npc. If you can't make more isk with those advantages then your problem is a lack of dps/tank. If you're warping out constantly, you remove three of the advantages since they revolve around being able to stay put instead of moving around. If it's a lack of dps, you just haven't reached a point yet where the time in moving around plays a significant role in isk generation.


You forget the disadvantages. Sanctums were nerfed. Everyone and his brother are looking for anoms. One red in a cloaky ship will prevent you from both ratting and doing anoms (unless you are stupid and want to run the risk of a BO's gang landing on you. While lvl 4 missions won't earn you as much as a really good anom, you can do as many lvl 4 high sec missions as you want without interference.


You're not a very good player then. I run lvl5's in a carrier with PL cyno alts in local (we aren't even on smacktalk termsLol), doesn't phase me even the slightest till they launch probes. Even then I'll stick around if I think I can finish before they actually show up. The fact is you should be aligned and not pointed, reds in local are largely irrelevant assuming a little competence on your part. I've done all my pve in low/null/w-space since late 2008 and haven't lost a single pve ship to players during that time. And as stated, I'm not shy about doing pve with hostiles in system.

As for all the sites being run, 90% or more of null sec doesn't have anyone in it. Just move a few systems away if your current one is too heavily farmed.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2011-10-31 17:51:26 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
If your heart's desire is to be space-rich with little or no risk, go to Jita or join an incursion flogging corp. Just don't beg CCP to tarnish regions designed with pvp in mind because you are obsessed with isk.


LOL, excellent. I got no laundry list Smile

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Raid'En
#25 - 2011-10-31 22:01:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Raid'En
Jenn aSide wrote:
Sorry if this is harsh, but if you aren't making more in null doing anomalies than you are in high sec running missions, you're doing something terribly, HORRIBLY wrong.

the title of the topic itself say that i think i'm doing it wrong :P

Jenn aSide wrote:
You have to use the right ships, the right ammo, and pick the right ones ("Sanctums" are for the unimaginative ones among us lol). As of right now, I "live" in guristas space and dual box anoms, 20 mil a tick per toon is the LOW END lol.

got a question here ; yeah i know it tick at 20M isk, but how much time do you need to complete it ?
and to make it clear : how much isk do you make BY CHARACTER by hour doing these anomalies ?
(i would appreciate if you include the number of characters you use while doing it, and ships types)

and bonus question : do you think the complexes are valuable enough to do it everytime ?
for exemple i have a 10/10 on my alt currently, but from what i talked with my corp, most of them don't consider the reward is enough to bother doing this. (note : i never did one, only read, and talked about, never did it myself)

what i really need to know currently is if i have to invest more in nullsec (easier given i want to play mostly here currently given i pvp here), or go back to wormhole to make money (which means i have to change a lot of my plans to make this possible without hurting my pvp, so it would be a pain).
the fact being that for now, i make 4 times more money with my knowledge on wormhole, and so it's tempting even if i don't want to...
this thread is so i can understand if i'm wrong enough to make so it's like only 2 times more, meaning farming on null is okay enough to avoid thinking about another solution.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2011-10-31 23:10:04 UTC
I'm not in a position to comment on the efficiency, or otherwise, of your nullsec efforts. I do, however, share similar experiences and have faced the same dilemma.

I think a big part of the 'problem' is that those of us who've lived in w-space a while get kinda spoiled for income. So when we return to the 'real' world of missions and plexes and the like we are all-to-easily disappointed. It's a big step from half-a-bill in a session and a-billion-plus per week every week, to what you can earn in hisec, lowsec, nullsec.

One of my corpmates maintains a small group of low-skill alts running their w-system while he potters around doing the various other stuff he wants to. It doesn't take much to run a drake or two and use a C3 to keep a good stream of iskies trickling in.
I found I could not do this in my C4, because it needed our higher-skilled characters to clear the sites. When my eve-time again becomes a little more reliable it is also my plan to setup again in a C3, purely for income purposes.

That may not suit you, but it's just how we've approached a similar 'problem'.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2011-11-01 07:07:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
nullsec is more than fine. you need to do exploration. i just started running nullsec radar, combat and DED sites. made about 1.2 bill in 3 days. a simple radar site that takes 20 mins to scan and complete will give you 50-100mill on average, which laughs in the face of any L4. a 6/10, or an 8/10 will give you at least 150mill with crap drops, half a bill with good drops.

anomalies are nothing, L4's are garbage. dont even waste your time. fit a Tengu or an Ishtar and probe stuff out. nullsec is so much more exciting, and at least 4 times more profitable per hour than L4 or anomaly running. one sanctum is roughly equivalent to a good L4 mission, like 20-30mill or so, but it takes a long time to complete unless youre there with a carrier or BS.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2011-11-01 07:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
Raid'En wrote:


and bonus question : do you think the complexes are valuable enough to do it everytime ?
for exemple i have a 10/10 on my alt currently, but from what i talked with my corp, most of them don't consider the reward is enough to bother doing this. (note : i never did one, only read, and talked about, never did it myself)




10/10 may not be worth the effort, but a 6/10 or a 8/10 definitely is. they are soloable too, while the 10/10 requires at least one or two more people with you. the other day i did a 6/10 in about 40 minutes, and got about 400mill from overseer loot and faction drop. recently i also did a 8/10, which took about an hour, and i netted 250mill. so it definitely depends. but definitely worth it.

i actually wanted to do some WH stuff solo, but C3's are definitely much less profitable than combat/radar site running in nullsec. might join a corp down the road to do some C5/C6.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#29 - 2011-11-01 12:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Raid'En wrote:

got a question here ; yeah i know it tick at 20M isk, but how much time do you need to complete it ?


Complete what? the anoms I'm doing?

Forsaken Hub = 6.5 to 7 minutes each

Pirate Gate Haven = 10 to 11 minutes

Cloud Haven = 17 minutes

Ring Sanctum = 15 minutes

Quote:

and to make it clear : how much isk do you make BY CHARACTER by hour doing these anomalies ?
(i would appreciate if you include the number of characters you use while doing it, and ships types)


Lol, I already told you how much I make. 2 characters, 20 mil per tick, 120 mil an hour (before corp taxes) minimum. Not counting escalations and faction spawns, I pull in a good 3-4 bil a month if I only spend an hour or 2a day doing anoms. 30-40 minutes a day farming forsaken hubs or pirate havens is enough to pay for 4 accounts.

I use a Mach (pretty standard fit) and a Tengu (with FoF missles because im lazy, except in the pirate gate haven and ring sanctum because of structures, then I use scourge furies).

Mach can solo everything, don't need the tengu, just had it and the pilot laying around.

Started out with Maelstrom, then Maelstrom + Drake. Bought the Mach and tengu with isk from using those.

Quote:

and bonus question : do you think the complexes are valuable enough to do it everytime ?
for exemple i have a 10/10 on my alt currently, but from what i talked with my corp, most of them don't consider the reward is enough to bother doing this. (note : i never did one, only read, and talked about, never did it myself)
]

Excuse me for saying this, but your corp seems to suck at PVE lol.

10/10s are always worth it, IF (wait for it) you do it right).

For the Guristas 10/10 you at least get 23 tier overseers each time. thats 133 mil. cloaky/nullified scout-Tank Tengu with 4 HMLs and the drones from a mach can blitz a MAZE in 30-40 minutes (knowing which gates to go through, killing only dire frigs, cloak on the mach to cloak up between spawns in last room). Even having to go 4-8 jumps to get there, it's worth it.

Angel 10/10 takes more time because you have to clear 4 rooms, but you get at least 2 OPEs as compensation

Sansha and BR 10/10s usually take 3 ships but are quick. You CAN do it with 2 ships (passive tanked loki in the Blood Raider one and some reps and rep drones on your dps ship), but that is risky, better to have tank loki, guardian and a true dps ship.

But yea, people who say 10/10s aren't worth it are just doing it wrong.

Quote:

what i really need to know currently is if i have to invest more in nullsec (easier given i want to play mostly here currently given i pvp here), or go back to wormhole to make money (which means i have to change a lot of my plans to make this possible without hurting my pvp, so it would be a pain).
the fact being that for now, i make 4 times more money with my knowledge on wormhole, and so it's tempting even if i don't want to...
this thread is so i can understand if i'm wrong enough to make so it's like only 2 times more, meaning farming on null is okay enough to avoid thinking about another solution.


Incursions and Wormholes make the same or more money than null, and the investment null takes can be higher. CCP might change that one day, but thats how it is. I'm just do my thing in null (I do have an incursion/mission alt for when my slice of null sec is unavailable) because I like it best, it's really just a matter of preferance.
BearJews
Order of Extrodinary Gentlemen
#30 - 2011-11-01 16:17:28 UTC
I found that finding ded complexes and running sanctums to be fun and highly profitable. Running one 6/10 plex raked in over 100 mil and all i needed was 2 other guys to help out (this was in null). Just ratting in my system i had 10mil dollar clicks. Maybe you are doing someting wrong? The risk/reward was way higher in null, and not nearly as steady as missioning but it was profitable.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#31 - 2011-11-01 20:23:44 UTC
Raid'En wrote:
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Just don't beg CCP to tarnish regions designed with pvp in mind because you are obsessed with isk.

make sense to me that if you want to battle for a place, it's because this place give you more (isk ? e-peen ?) than another.
EVE is a game where you battle for territories and ressources. and if you want to abttle for them, there must be a reason to.
if the only thing you want is something to shoot, there's easier way than nullsec, like RvB for example.


If you think RvB is worthwhile pvp, maybe YOU should live in highsec. You seem to already be in love with L4's. What more could you want? Your goal is to have low-risk income and pile up isk. What better way to do that than missions and pre-arranged frigate "pvp," ala RvB?

Sov is a game where you battle for territory and resources. Many of us don't give two ***** about it, but still love nullsec. If you need a reason (MOAR ISK) to pvp other than "it's fun," you're doing it wrong.
Raid'En
#32 - 2011-11-01 20:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Raid'En
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:

If you think RvB is worthwhile pvp, maybe YOU should live in highsec.

didn't tried myself, but saw lots of guys who seems to enjoy it.
maybe i have a false vision of it.
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Your goal is to have low-risk income and pile up isk.

not really.
i'm talking risk vs reward, not risk only.

Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
If you need a reason (MOAR ISK) to pvp other than "it's fun," you're doing it wrong.

i'm mostly needing a way to pay my plexes and ships to enjoy this pvp. and the less time i have to farm, the best it is. so, of course more isk on less time is better.

to be able to try pvp on expensive ships i need to be sure i can easily get back the isk i will lose, so i need a good way to make isk.
if i don't have enough money, i will hesistate to take risk while pvping. you may not like this vision, but that's how i am, and that's all.

and pvp is pretty variable on fun-meter. depend how much time we wait to find something, depend how equilibrate is a battle, depend how much lag...
the less time i'll need for my wallet, the more time i'll be able to pvp, and mostly try more risked (and so more inetresting) pvp.
i'm a pretty slow guy you know, i always go at a slow pace.

but don't worry, you don't like me and i get it :P
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2011-11-01 20:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
Raid'En wrote:
but don't worry, you don't like me and i get it :P


LOL, doesn't look like a matter of like / not-like to me, more a case of exaggerated self-importance.

S'funny how some ppl manage to turn a careful and reasonable enquiry by some other person, into a litany on how wrong that other person is and how great they themselves are. Thankfully there are usually also people who try respond in a helpful way, and they also seem to manage to recognise the tossers for what they are.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#34 - 2011-11-02 19:12:19 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

You have to use the right ships, the right ammo, and pick the right ones ("Sanctums" are for the unimaginative ones among us lol). As of right now, I "live" in guristas space and dual box anoms, 20 mil a tick per toon is the LOW END lol. I don't even include faction spawns and escalations in my income calculations, but those are a bonus. Made a bil off of a escalated Dread Guristas Fleet Staging point last night, for example. 1 hour a night of farming anoms pays for 4 accounts with plenty of isk left over to spend like a fool....


20 Million per tick really sounds low, because at this rate you would not do more than a high sec mission runner.

Remove insurance.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#35 - 2011-11-02 19:28:15 UTC
Tenris Anis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

You have to use the right ships, the right ammo, and pick the right ones ("Sanctums" are for the unimaginative ones among us lol). As of right now, I "live" in guristas space and dual box anoms, 20 mil a tick per toon is the LOW END lol. I don't even include faction spawns and escalations in my income calculations, but those are a bonus. Made a bil off of a escalated Dread Guristas Fleet Staging point last night, for example. 1 hour a night of farming anoms pays for 4 accounts with plenty of isk left over to spend like a fool....


20 Million per tick really sounds low, because at this rate you would not do more than a high sec mission runner.


20 per tick per toon (notice I said "low end" usually closer to 25 mil per tick per toon if I choose to pay attention), 120 to 150 mil per hour (before corp tax), no need to dock, no need to talk to agent, no need for standings grind, never any need to leave system other than for escalations, no interruption save to the occasional passing neutral/red, sometimes get factions spawns (in the last month i've gotten a Rattlesnake BPC and a Crystal Omega from DG BS rat wrecks) and no need to screw with LPs and Tags and whatnot.

Yea, you can keep missions lol.
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#36 - 2011-11-02 19:40:05 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Lol, I already told you how much I make. 2 characters, 20 mil per tick, 120 mil an hour (before corp taxes) minimum.


Than by your own definition you are doing it wrong. 60 Mil per char is about the same you get in a mission ship in high sec. Some missions may give you way more (up to about 20-30 mil for 10 minute missions), but to be honest, some others don´t and you can only decline so much missions before you get into trouble with your agents. Unless you want to end up like a corp mate which screwed up both of his level 4 to below -2 standing in a single day :D




Remove insurance.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#37 - 2011-11-02 21:22:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Tenris Anis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Lol, I already told you how much I make. 2 characters, 20 mil per tick, 120 mil an hour (before corp taxes) minimum.


Than by your own definition you are doing it wrong. 60 Mil per char is about the same you get in a mission ship in high sec. Some missions may give you way more (up to about 20-30 mil for 10 minute missions), but to be honest, some others don´t and you can only decline so much missions before you get into trouble with your agents. Unless you want to end up like a corp mate which screwed up both of his level 4 to below -2 standing in a single day :D






Yea, 1st of all I'd love to see the magical 60 mil per hour high sec mission runner (without a fit that will get you ganked).

2nd, please tell me about those wonderful escalations and factio spawns you get in missions. The 120 mil an hour minimum

3rd, my 120 mil an hour is a real number, unlike the *estimates* mission runners talk about absed on their estimation of LP worth (worth that is declining for most folks).

But last of all, even if that mega mission running isk was possible (it may be, but it is not common, the vast majority of mission runners don't make near 60 mil an hour), for all the reasons I mentioned above(I mentioned standings) ,nullsec anom farming is easier, in additon to being more profitble for the vast majority of people.

The point is, null sec profitabilty is fine
Raid'En
#38 - 2011-11-03 00:50:52 UTC
so you're making 120m isk by hour by character farming anom ? wow, i'm very far from that for now :/
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2011-11-03 01:34:00 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Yea, 1st of all I'd love to see the magical 60 mil per hour high sec mission runner (without a fit that will get you ganked).


The real question is: How long can you keep that 60 mil/hr going? (lol -2 agent standings in a day)

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Fedimart
Doomheim
#40 - 2011-11-03 01:38:07 UTC
Mentat Cthulhu wrote:
try high sec Incursions...you can make easy 120mil in bounties per hour in complete safety with no need to fight for sov, attend ctas etc

Where do you get this figure? 120 mil an hour? Do you run incursions lol? Complete safety? Doesn't sound like it. I know lots that do and don't make 120 mil and wouldn't agree about complete safety. Also if you're in null sec and not making a lot more than doing level 4's you're either not trying or doing something wrong. I made more than missions just by ratting in the belts.
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