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Why do the empires train capsuleers?

Author
Concurssi Mellenar
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-04-27 22:55:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Concurssi Mellenar
If the empires are gradually losing their power, lore-wise, to the capsuleers as is said in the Origins video, then why do the empires train capsuleers? Or possibly even make them (I'm a bit fuzzy as to who actually does that)? It seems like that would be detrimental to them, if they just keep training up people to take over the universe from them... unless that's what CCP is going for?

He who controls the veld, controls the universe.

Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#2 - 2013-04-28 00:30:06 UTC
In the empires' minds, capsuleers are a necessary evil. I shudder to think what kind of havoc would take place if capsule pilots weren't slaughtering thousands of pirates and rogue drones each day (just imagine... the empires might have to stand down from their borders and stop bickering between themselves long enough to actually deal with real threats for a change).

In the end, I suspect the empires aren't concerned with whether capsuleers as a group are a threat to them, if but for one reason: CONCORD can end our clone contracts. If we get too out of control, they can pull the plug on our immortality. For the empires to really start to feel the heat, CONCORD would have to break ties with them and be brought under capsuleer control. Then things would start to get serious in their eyes.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#3 - 2013-04-28 06:45:21 UTC
A capsuleer cuts down on crew costs, which are often one of biggest expenses of any naval ship, even in reality. The human resources overhead for crewing a battleship is massive. Feeding, training, paying, insuring, and benefiting all those people is very very expensive. Then you have to maintain the ship and all this other nonsense. With capsuleers requiring only a fraction of the crew for a ship, this is less of a problem.

Tactically, they are also far more effective in combat. This is why we can take on entire level 4 missions alone. Those are some damn impressive odds. Imagine if you had to pay an entire fleet of normal, fully crewed, ships to take on those pirates. Operating a major fleet action like that through traditional means is horribly expensive. Why bother when you can pay a capsuleer a fraction of the cost to get it done himself?

Capsuleers sell themselves cheap. A million ISK to fight off a horde of fourty pirate ships alone? That's barely enough to buy a destroyer and fit it.

Lastly but not least... if a capsuleer dies, it costs the agent's corporation NOTHING. The capsuleer doesn't even get paid. The agent corp doesn't need to replace any ships, or retrain new crews, or pay death benefits, or anything. They just offer the mission to someone else.

Katrina Oniseki

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-04-28 06:51:20 UTC
The EVE Online player base only represent the 'independent' capsuleers, a very small but growing percentage of all capsuleers.

The Empires have their own hordes of capsuleers in their navies. You can kind of pretend all the other Eve players are the ones that are freelancing, running missons, doing their own things, settling in 0.0, etc. There are many, many more that we never interact with serving in the military forces of all factions.



Sabik now, Sabik forever

Concurssi Mellenar
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-04-28 09:44:49 UTC
Hmm, I guess that makes sense.
But this raises another question: shouldn't we be paying upkeep for the maintenance and crew on our ships?

He who controls the veld, controls the universe.

Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#6 - 2013-04-28 14:37:58 UTC
By Jove! I think we do!... With ONLY one low monthly fee, we pay for ship fuel and crew costs for whatever ship we may fly during that period. Yes folks, with the purchase of a Pilot's License Extension (or PLEX), you too can roam the stars worry free.

Titan owners get a really good deal on this package...
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-04-28 17:31:59 UTC
Concurssi Mellenar wrote:
Hmm, I guess that makes sense.
But this raises another question: shouldn't we be paying upkeep for the maintenance and crew on our ships?


You are. Don't forget a few thousand ISK is enough money for baseliners to pay several years of salary for them and their family.

Compared to 99.9% of the cluster each capsuleer is -fabulously- wealthy.


Sabik now, Sabik forever

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#8 - 2013-04-29 00:14:43 UTC
Faulx wrote:
By Jove! I think we do!... With ONLY one low monthly fee, we pay for ship fuel and crew costs for whatever ship we may fly during that period. Yes folks, with the purchase of a Pilot's License Extension (or PLEX), you too can roam the stars worry free.

Titan owners get a really good deal on this package...



We can generally assume that we pay the equivalent of 500,000,000 ISK (roughly) every month for the right to fly our ships. That amount likely covers the significant crew costs many times over.

Katrina Oniseki

Freya Kaundur
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-05-01 04:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Freya Kaundur
i read some where that 1 isk is more then the average colonist would make in there life time.

and i would love to see a all out war declared on capsuleers by empire.
Stitcher
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-05-02 09:47:54 UTC
Quote:
i read some where that 1 isk is more then the average colonist would make in there life time.


I did the math once using things like milk, tobacco and spirits and averaging their effective values and the result was that an ISK works out as being worth about US$230.

So, it's not quite as extreme as you heard. It still means that capsuleers are playing around with insane amounts of money though. If you can afford to buy and fit an interceptor then in the real world you'd be a multi-billionaire. a handful of supercarriers would bankrupt the USA.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Marcus Gord
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-05-02 09:51:47 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
a handful of supercarriers would bankrupt the USA.


oops. too late Lol

In a few moments you will have an experience that will seem completely real. It will be the result of your subconscious fears transformed to your conscious awareness.

http://i.imgur.com/LM2NKUf.png

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#12 - 2013-05-02 10:19:27 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
. a handful of supercarriers would bankrupt the USA.

Meanwhile in 2013.....Big smile

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Stitcher
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2013-05-02 10:48:41 UTC
dammit, and we don't even have awesome faster-than-light giant warships to show for it. 'MURICA.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Niko medes
Freeman Technologies
#14 - 2013-05-03 00:09:18 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
dammit, and we don't even have awesome faster-than-light giant warships to show for it. 'MURICA.


Maybe one day Blink

In regards to the OP, half a million independent capsuleers aren't high on the list of threats to the four Empires. We war amongst ourselves more than the Empires do with each other. Though the fact that the four Empires are losing their grip, even with all the conflicts we have with each other.. shows just how powerful we are individually and even more so as corporations, alliances, and Empires..

gods among men is sort of an understatement in this game heh Smile
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-05-03 00:10:38 UTC
I seem to recall somewhere that the capsuleer market is highly inflated to provide some currency-sinks for the wider cluster.. ie if you translate ISK into -planetary- currency is where things get really out of proportion. Something like a barrel of wheat is a few hundred ISK on capsuleer regulated markets but much different planetside.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#16 - 2013-05-03 00:25:31 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Quote:
i read some where that 1 isk is more then the average colonist would make in there life time.


I did the math once using things like milk, tobacco and spirits and averaging their effective values and the result was that an ISK works out as being worth about US$230.

So, it's not quite as extreme as you heard. It still means that capsuleers are playing around with insane amounts of money though. If you can afford to buy and fit an interceptor then in the real world you'd be a multi-billionaire. a handful of supercarriers would bankrupt the USA.


Wasn't there an AT-related piece of fiction several years where a surviving crewman from the winning team got something like 100,000 isk? It worked out to him and his extended family being set for life, which indicates one isk is a lot of money, but hardly more than a planetside baseliner would ever see in their entire life.

Also, something to bear in mind is that as the economy grows and advances, the ceiling for how rich you can possibly be grows.
Mirima Thurander
#17 - 2013-05-03 20:25:01 UTC
CCP, has come out and said before times the players are not truly ALL of the capsuleers, there are many many more still in the service of the Empires.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#18 - 2013-05-04 00:33:28 UTC
The Gallente Federation is lead by Roden, a Capsuleer, as is the Ammarian Emprie lead by Sarum, a Capsuleer.

I can't remember about the Minmatar, but I think Heth is mortal.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Concurssi Mellenar
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-05-05 10:21:37 UTC
Maybe one day the capsuleers working for the empires will join their free brethren and turn on their masters. Aside from the leaders, of course, that wouldn't make any sense.

He who controls the veld, controls the universe.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#20 - 2013-05-06 12:31:12 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
The Gallente Federation is lead by Roden, a Capsuleer, as is the Ammarian Emprie lead by Sarum, a Capsuleer.

I can't remember about the Minmatar, but I think Heth is mortal.



I highly doubt that Amarr boss would be capsuleer as their faith does not allow cloning. Turning into capsuleer kinda involves dying in the process.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

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