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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Build Costs

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Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#81 - 2013-05-03 18:55:17 UTC
Sable Moran wrote:
Muscaat wrote:
Isn't this going to screw up the market for battleship manufacturers, in the same way that the frigate changes screwed up that market for manufacturers?


LOLled so hard my ribs hurt. I've been selling frigates for many years and I can say that there was no screwing the manufacturers. Every frigate I sell, I sell for profit.



Nice example of the narrow mindedness of EVE players regarding overall balance and future players.

It's potential manufacturers AFTER the patch that are screwed if half the BPOs are worthless, because the market is flooded with products below (the new) production cost.


As another side effect there's yet another set of exceptions to the symmetry between manufacturing and reprocessing.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2013-05-03 18:55:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nex apparatu5
Grarr Dexx wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Soon Shin wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
To everyone who is complaining that the price makes battleships somehow "worse", I have news for you: price isn't a balancing factor. hth.


It is a balancing factor.

Why pay 3-4 times maybe even 5 times more considering rig and fitting costs on a Battleships which have fairly niche usage

where its not a whole lot better than general battlecruisers in that niche?


Increasing the cost of Battleships does very little to fix the BC vs BS situation where 9/10 players will fly a BC over a BS.


Well by that logic the price of titans should be cut in half. Why use them when a dread does more DPS? I mean, 9/10 pilots will fly a dread instead of a titan. Hell, probably more like 99/100


Reductio ad absurdum. Dreadnoughts do not offer jump bridges or a 5 million m³ ship hangar / 112 thousand m³ cargo space. You also don't have to lock them in place for five minutes to deal that damage and can deliver a burst of three million damage up front at the cost of only locking it in place for thirty seconds.



Titans do not offer the ability to dock or the ability to shoot anything smaller than a capital either. Do you think the doomsday and jump portal gen are really worth the 110b more a titan costs?
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2013-05-03 18:56:18 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:


It's 40 million isk. It's a trivial amount

sure...
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#84 - 2013-05-03 18:57:07 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
It's 40 million isk. It's a trivial amount

Should we add 40 mil to frigate price tag, while we're at it?
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#85 - 2013-05-03 18:57:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Grarr Dexx
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Soon Shin wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
To everyone who is complaining that the price makes battleships somehow "worse", I have news for you: price isn't a balancing factor. hth.


It is a balancing factor.

Why pay 3-4 times maybe even 5 times more considering rig and fitting costs on a Battleships which have fairly niche usage

where its not a whole lot better than general battlecruisers in that niche?


Increasing the cost of Battleships does very little to fix the BC vs BS situation where 9/10 players will fly a BC over a BS.


Well by that logic the price of titans should be cut in half. Why use them when a dread does more DPS? I mean, 9/10 pilots will fly a dread instead of a titan. Hell, probably more like 99/100


Reductio ad absurdum. Dreadnoughts do not offer jump bridges or a 5 million m³ ship hangar / 112 thousand m³ cargo space. You also don't have to lock them in place for five minutes to deal that damage and can deliver a burst of three million damage up front at the cost of only locking it in place for thirty seconds.



Titans do not offer the ability to dock or the ability to shoot anything smaller than a capital either. Do you think the doomsday and jump portal gen are really worth the 110b more a titan costs?


For the jump portal generator alone people would place down 110b, never mind the ship that comes with it. And "40 million ISK is a trivial amount", how would you know? You don't have to pay for your ships. For those who aren't as risk averse to only fly battleships in fleets big enough to need more than four wing commander characters, it matters.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#86 - 2013-05-03 19:00:31 UTC
Let's assume a plex is 500m for $15. If a BS hull goes up 50m, that's a buck fifty, which is what, 10 minutes at work if you're working at a burger joint, or less than a minute of work if you have a decent job.

Hell, even in eve it's like an hour of level 4s if you're bad at them. It's fairly trivial to pull in 200m/hr in this game, which would make it ~10 minutes.

You guys are getting worked up over a change which is essentially nothing.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#87 - 2013-05-03 19:01:06 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Nice example of the narrow mindedness of EVE players regarding overall balance and future players.

It's potential manufacturers AFTER the patch that are screwed if half the BPOs are worthless, because the market is flooded with products below (the new) production cost.

That is a true change to new player experience.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#88 - 2013-05-03 19:01:29 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
It's 40 million isk. It's a trivial amount

Should we add 40 mil to frigate price tag, while we're at it?


Sure, go for it. We'll still give them away to new players
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#89 - 2013-05-03 19:02:01 UTC
Bucca Zerodyme wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
The primary goal of tiericide is to eliminate any explicit power difference between ships within a class. If the power within a class is more or less level across all ships (which it is after the rebalance), the price should also be level.
CCP Rise


Let me summary:
- Raven didnt changed at all, except some slot swaps. Neighter get EHP nor anything others
- Rokh got nerfed
- Lets adjust prices, because they are balanced now
- The price of the Raven will be about 40m higher now

Sounds fair. How about we balance CCP-Devs, too?



Welcome to the further caldari demise, now you all have to wait for another few years to have a decent battleship line up.
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#90 - 2013-05-03 19:03:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Grarr Dexx
For a guy who hasn't lost anything bigger than a harbinger in the last year, you sure seem knowledgeable about the costs of big burly battleships.

Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Skia Aumer wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
It's 40 million isk. It's a trivial amount

Should we add 40 mil to frigate price tag, while we're at it?


Sure, go for it. We'll still give them away to new players


Point proven. Thanks for saving me the effort.
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#91 - 2013-05-03 19:03:23 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Hagika wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
To everyone who is complaining that the price makes battleships somehow "worse", I have news for you: price isn't a balancing factor. hth.



I have news for you, the other forums speaking of the changes do not warrant the price increase that the community will feel in their pockets. This will no doubt make battleship use even less common.

Perhaps you should factor that into your view of balance vs cost because, cost is a balance factor when compared to other hulls.

Though I do not see you as the type as being able to figure that out, when everyone else is currently saying the opposite as you.


It's 40 million isk. It's a trivial amount


40 million trivial, so lets add 40 million to all ships and fittings,rigs and see how trivial it really is..Oh wait, not so trivial after all is it?
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#92 - 2013-05-03 19:03:25 UTC
Great change. This will boost demand for lower-class ships and increase battlefield variety.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#93 - 2013-05-03 19:04:20 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
This makes a lot more sense than the original post


Cool. Maybe I should switch them!

Also good meeting you at fanfest, when we were talking I didn't realize that you were on your way to CSM and that I would be talking to you much more!


I'm not sure if your quoting is some kind of personal style decision, but IMO it would be a lot easier to see who you're referring to, if you made a habit of using 'quote=...'.
Naso Aya
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2013-05-03 19:05:25 UTC
Just wanted to say called it, that's all.
JamesUtah
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2013-05-03 19:05:26 UTC
can i get an explanation on what 'ZFBFBFBB' in OMGWTFZFBFBFBB stands for?
Veyer Erastus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2013-05-03 19:05:33 UTC
Quote:
You will NOT be able to buy battleships now and then refine them for the increased cost after the changes go live. Like all previous tiericide changes we will use extra materials to implement this cost change.

This sound really bad in economy terms to me, as net cost is net cost. As i see this mechanic serves only one strange purpose - to screw the manufacturing. In case you just increase material requirements of BP's the moment the patch hits those old guys with abundance of old BSs will meet a choice - ether to reprocess them and acquire X money or put them on the market for X money. Either way that will result in same money and sound economy. You could argue that this will create minerals "out of nowhere", but this will be offseted by imminent mineral prices drop mirroring BS prices rising. On the other hand if you implement Extra Materials the owners of said BSs won't do anything the moment patch hits. What they will do - they will sell the BSs at the old price, like they used to be. That already happened with frigates not long ago. Making manufacturing of those ships completely unprofitable.

Maybe, maybe, this change is actually not about "materials out of nowhere", but about inflation. But if you want to fight inflation, find a technical mechanic for that. Maybe cutting insurance, maybe something else. But destroying the big part of gameplay - manufacturing is not a right way to do this.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#97 - 2013-05-03 19:06:05 UTC
Hagika wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Hagika wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
To everyone who is complaining that the price makes battleships somehow "worse", I have news for you: price isn't a balancing factor. hth.



I have news for you, the other forums speaking of the changes do not warrant the price increase that the community will feel in their pockets. This will no doubt make battleship use even less common.

Perhaps you should factor that into your view of balance vs cost because, cost is a balance factor when compared to other hulls.

Though I do not see you as the type as being able to figure that out, when everyone else is currently saying the opposite as you.


It's 40 million isk. It's a trivial amount


40 million trivial, so lets add 40 million to all ships and fittings,rigs and see how trivial it really is..Oh wait, not so trivial after all is it?


I'd be fine with that. Adding a bill or so to my carrier doesnt make me flinch in the slightest.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#98 - 2013-05-03 19:07:06 UTC
Grarr Dexx wrote:
For a guy who hasn't lost anything bigger than a harbinger in the last year, you sure seem knowledgeable about the costs of big burly battleships.


To be fair, I've lost two carriers this year too, but these days I mostly fly supers.
Tubrug1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#99 - 2013-05-03 19:09:07 UTC
Just to point out- 40mil is the average build cost increase, and since they say they're not going to be changing Tier 3s that much it means T1 and T2s will increase by roughly 60mil.

Writer of The Eve Onion

I have a Twitter
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#100 - 2013-05-03 19:09:46 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Skia Aumer wrote:
Should we add 40 mil to frigate price tag, while we're at it?


Sure, go for it. We'll still give them away to new players

Good for new players, unless they want to play their game - not be spoon-fed.