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Getting Fuel Blocks Into WHs

Author
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-05-01 01:06:13 UTC
How we do it - wait for a quiet route out into hisec. Use orcas or several Itty V runs to drag fuel blocks from a trade hub to a station near the WH chain's hisec exit. Move it in from there either in Itty V's (if the route is short and very quiet) or DSTs. If the route is dodgy enough that you'd want to use blockade runners, it's not worth the hassle running POS fuel in unless things have gone very wrong and a POS is about to run right out (and avoiding this is why you should always keep a month+ of fuel in the hole).
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-05-01 04:56:24 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
Bring the ice in, cook the resr in home. Jesus .w Christ.



Already explained as a waste of time. You save almost nothing on the hauling and increase the workload.

So you haul the PI components you make out of the hole, to wherever you're building the blocks with the ice products. Then the next time you get a connection you haul the finished blocks half way across the universe to the hole?

That doesn't exactly sound more efficient. Even hauling in blocks from trade hub and components to hub for sale sounds very roundabout.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38

Euthanasia Anneto
Embers Children
#23 - 2013-05-01 05:16:54 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
So you haul the PI components you make out of the hole, to wherever you're building the blocks with the ice products. Then the next time you get a connection you haul the finished blocks half way across the universe to the hole?

That doesn't exactly sound more efficient. Even hauling in blocks from trade hub and components to hub for sale sounds very roundabout.

Agree on that one, and occasionally you hit that system where the ice products are way cheaper then a trade-hub or is the cost of home-made blocks tons cheaper then a trade-hub.

It's also how you plan the import of all above mentioned. Either all in one go or bits per day/week.

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Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-05-01 05:38:41 UTC
Euthanasia Anneto wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:
So you haul the PI components you make out of the hole, to wherever you're building the blocks with the ice products. Then the next time you get a connection you haul the finished blocks half way across the universe to the hole?

That doesn't exactly sound more efficient. Even hauling in blocks from trade hub and components to hub for sale sounds very roundabout.

Agree on that one, and occasionally you hit that system where the ice products are way cheaper then a trade-hub or is the cost of home-made blocks tons cheaper then a trade-hub.

It's also how you plan the import of all above mentioned. Either all in one go or bits per day/week.



I guess in one way it depends on the WH you live in. When we as a corp can make a months worth of fuel running sites in 1-2 hours, its hard for me to get motivated to even set my PI back up (I have PI alts who have sat idle for 6+ months).

And yes, even if you are making PI, you can crunch the numbers. At perfect skills, you will need to haul in 136,368m3 of ice products to produce your fuel block inside your WH. (assuming large tower) That assumes you can make all your PI POS fuel inside.

For a large tower it takes 144,000m3 of fuel blocks per month. So making your fuel at the POS in your wormhole saves you a whopping 1 Iteron 5 load per month. Yes I consider that not really worth the extra effort.

IF you do PI, and you are not trying to just make POS fuels, you are now free to make the most space efficient PI you can and sell it for isk. I mean generally it is a two way street. Anything I am hauling from Jita will also include a trip back to Jita. We have several dedicated high sec haulers so if they haul fuel blocks to the WH entrance, they can haul stuff to market on their way back.


Bloody Wench
#25 - 2013-05-03 12:44:32 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
Bring the ice in, cook the resr in home. Jesus .w Christ.



Already explained as a waste of time. You save almost nothing on the hauling and increase the workload.



It's less $$$ you're hauling through hisec.

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Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-05-03 13:17:15 UTC
Bloody Wench wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
Bring the ice in, cook the resr in home. Jesus .w Christ.



Already explained as a waste of time. You save almost nothing on the hauling and increase the workload.



It's less $$$ you're hauling through hisec.


True,

But even 2-3 months of fuel in a freighter isn't much of a risk. And it still saves me time.
Selene Nask
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-05-03 14:56:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Selene Nask
Derath Ellecon wrote:



I guess in one way it depends on the WH you live in. When we as a corp can make a months worth of fuel running sites in 1-2 hours, its hard for me to get motivated to even set my PI back up (I have PI alts who have sat idle for 6+ months).

And yes, even if you are making PI, you can crunch the numbers. At perfect skills, you will need to haul in 136,368m3 of ice products to produce your fuel block inside your WH. (assuming large tower) That assumes you can make all your PI POS fuel inside.

For a large tower it takes 144,000m3 of fuel blocks per month. So making your fuel at the POS in your wormhole saves you a whopping 1 Iteron 5 load per month. Yes I consider that not really worth the extra effort.

IF you do PI, and you are not trying to just make POS fuels, you are now free to make the most space efficient PI you can and sell it for isk. I mean generally it is a two way street. Anything I am hauling from Jita will also include a trip back to Jita. We have several dedicated high sec haulers so if they haul fuel blocks to the WH entrance, they can haul stuff to market on their way back.




As you say it really depends on the WH. It also depends on who is living in the WH and what skills the people have to work with.
For my corp, which is small and mostly new people it is way more efficient to make blocks in house. Even without full PI skills we have enough people to supply enough PI mats for the fuel we need and still do their own thing to sell on the market.
Our main industry people stay in the WH mostly full time so to make the blocks outside would mean travelling out. We tried it it's a logistical hassle to coordinate everyones PI mats and ship it out enough to make a run worth it and then back in. In house means that people just dump the fuel mats into a hanger when they can and get paid by the corp. It's dead easy to just have our ice miners mine and just truck in the ice products whenever the entrance happens to be nearby their stock.

Yes we could just buy blocks but the way we've set things up is to have the corp supporting our players to make isk while helping the corp. With how things are now I mine ice for about 10-12 hours a month. I truck the products in about 2 times a month whenever the entrance is convenient and someone is available to scout which is hardly a hassle. Then the industry people just make fuel at their leisure. For us it's got to the point that we're easily making enough to fuel another POS. We've even trucked fuel blocks out to sell when we've had lots of extra. (Not now though with the changes coming up)

Setting up our supply chain was a bit of a hassle but now that it's up and running it's so easy that we barely think about it. People just go about their business and our mat stock is always full. Then it's just " Oh the fuel bay is half full?" Slap in a run of blocks, several hours later take a minute to transfer the blocks directly from the assembly array and you're done.

Easy peasy.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-05-03 15:32:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Derath Ellecon
Selene Nask wrote:
Lots of words



You are correct it depends on how people want to live in their WH, what kind of WH it is etc.

All I was really trying to show in my original reply is that it is wrong to think that you are saving any significant hauling in with ice products only vs Fuel blocks, as the ice products comprise 95% of the bulk of fuel blocks. Literally for a large POS, hauling in Ice products vs fuel blocks only saves you ~1 iteron 5 run per month. Almost negligable.

Now, that being said, for the guys in my corp who still like doing PI, they can now focus on making profitable P3 mats, which on average are 65% more efficient isk/m3.

Hauling really isnt an issue, as everything that comes in goes back out, so every ship that hauls in fuel blocks can leave with PI and go sell it.

Either way, to each their own. The only point i was making is that hauling in Ice doesn't save you much m3 vs hauling in fuel blocks.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#29 - 2013-05-03 18:20:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Selene Nask wrote:
Lots of words



You are correct it depends on how people want to live in their WH, what kind of WH it is etc.

All I was really trying to show in my original reply is that it is wrong to think that you are saving any significant hauling in with ice products only vs Fuel blocks, as the ice products comprise 95% of the bulk of fuel blocks. Literally for a large POS, hauling in Ice products vs fuel blocks only saves you ~1 iteron 5 run per month. Almost negligable.

Now, that being said, for the guys in my corp who still like doing PI, they can now focus on making profitable P3 mats, which on average are 65% more efficient isk/m3.

Hauling really isnt an issue, as everything that comes in goes back out, so every ship that hauls in fuel blocks can leave with PI and go sell it.

Either way, to each their own. The only point i was making is that hauling in Ice doesn't save you much m3 vs hauling in fuel blocks.


We could use a mass efficient hauler, the Orca isn't cutting it, and the whole back and forth with iterons' is annoying.

Something that can drag in about 80 to 100,000m3 and not completely mass the entire whole in 1 shot.

Yaay!!!!

Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#30 - 2013-05-07 14:46:17 UTC
Berluth Luthian wrote:
So I heard someone complain about the difficulty of getting fuel blocks into WH space and wondered if anyone did this (and what is the most unsecure part about it)

1) Find lowsec/highsec exit.
2) Use freighter/hauler if possible to haul blocks to station.
3) Fill blocks into secure containers
4) Use really big hauler to drop containers next to wormhole. (web freighter off of station?)
5) Fill containers with blocks from large cargo container
6) Use other hauler to run blocks from containers, through WH, to sites in W-Space


There are really only two words for this. Orca

OR
CA

TBH I don't see any advantage to taking the PI componets out to build the blocks and then bringing the blocks back in. Just bring in the ice and build the blocks inside.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-05-07 15:27:30 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
TBH I don't see any advantage to taking the PI componets out to build the blocks and then bringing the blocks back in. Just bring in the ice and build the blocks inside.


I would agree with that. But I don't recall that being suggested anywhere. For me, IF I got my PI going again, I wouldn't bother with POS fuel, but instead with a more profitable isk/m3 P3 material, haul it out, sell. Fill up with fuel blocks for the return trip.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#32 - 2013-05-07 15:56:53 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
TBH I don't see any advantage to taking the PI componets out to build the blocks and then bringing the blocks back in. Just bring in the ice and build the blocks inside.


I would agree with that. But I don't recall that being suggested anywhere. For me, IF I got my PI going again, I wouldn't bother with POS fuel, but instead with a more profitable isk/m3 P3 material, haul it out, sell. Fill up with fuel blocks for the return trip.


Ah yeah, that was an assumption on my part. I see what you mean though and it makes sense.

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