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NPC Fleets in Low-Sec
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Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-05-03 12:27:23 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Nobody is saying "remove all NPC".


Vaju Enki wrote:
things like NPC shouldn't exist in EvE and hopefully will be removed from the game in a near future. Players are the "NPC's".


He is.

I agree that NPC mining fleets will never be as good as good as player fleets, I'm not saying they would. However, I find it immersion that I have never seen a single NPC ORE ship doing something in space. In fact, the Outer Ring just feels like more of the same nullsec.

I'm not advocating that CCP should try to create NPC content to replace or make up for a lack of player content. I'm saying that CCP should continue to flesh out the EVE universe in many ways, including adding more believable NPC presence. Having occasional mining or patrol fleets in lowsec would make the universe feel more alive, especially with something like distress signals to draw players in. A mechanic like distress signals could also be used by players to lure other players in, as could a mining fleet, or any other new content. The more content there is out there, the more things players will run into each other doing.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#62 - 2013-05-03 12:33:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
Vaju Enki wrote:
Confirming that making buy/sell orders in EvE Online market is not interacting with anyone and it's not a PvP system.


I like the way you ignore everything you can't argue against. That appears to be everything.

And market trading (yes trading) is a form of pvp when there is player contention. Simply flogging your stuff at the highest current has no contention for the seller and so isn't pvp.
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
Sedition.
#63 - 2013-05-03 12:41:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Loki Feiht
Exactly Xavier and lets face it, currently Eve npc's are a very boring affair, for instance apart from nullsec (and these are just grinding) anomalies are rarely run. Whereas seeing a small npc group mining in a belt under attack by players or other npc's, with distress call features could create adhoc missions against either npc's or players, this would be great.

The thing with player content is players have a very well known reputation for just destroying everything, meaning in lowsec if you come across a player mining well.... so there becomes a lack of sandbox features that players provide, NPC's could be the answer to this and another reason for players to even go into lowsec.

In short the only thing that will attract players to those un attractive areas of space would be better content.

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858
Michael Stabb
Doomheim
#64 - 2013-05-03 13:01:21 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:


EvE Online is an sandbox mmo-rpg game, not a kindergarten themepark game. In EvE, players are the content..


Apparently someone forgot to tell that to the Sansha and Sleepers.

I'm for it. It'd help add a few focal points around systems rather than just gates and stations.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#65 - 2013-05-03 13:30:15 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

Look, just because you want to be able to cruise through lowsec without having to worry about gatecamps doesn't mean everyone else does, nor that your vision is the way that particular area of space should be.


Again fail of being able to make constructive comment.

I quote:
FelsusGuy wrote:

What this does is make low-sec midway between high-sec and null-sec, not a null-sec with a few restrictions and some gate guns. You can still plunder and pillage and avoid the law, but you have to be more careful when going about that. It also provides some opportunity for players who otherwise would be too discouraged to go. So long as you keep your wits about you, you can stay (relatively) safe while not being forced to cloak or hide in station or be good at PVP. If you wander around like it is high-sec? Well, then, eventually you are going to slip up and the pirates will have their way with you in a dark, unguarded metaphorical alley. And if you wander around like it is null-sec? Well, eventually you will be caught in a bad situation, and you will be dragged to your judgement.


Felsusguy did not want highsec concord that blows up everyone. Simply more risk of being outlaw. If you had any roleplay desire other than blowing other people up you would see this.


There needs to be LESS risk for being an outlaw, not more. The reason lowsec is so lowly populated is not because of a LACK of consequences to being an outlaw
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#66 - 2013-05-03 13:37:07 UTC
Michael Stabb wrote:
Apparently someone forgot to tell that to the Sansha and Sleepers.

Indeed. I think some people are a little blinkered and only see things from a rather singular perspective. Without npcs there would be no T3 ships, ignoring all the other implications.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#67 - 2013-05-03 14:13:09 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Confirming that making buy/sell orders in EvE Online market is not interacting with anyone and it's not a PvP system.


I like the way you ignore everything you can't argue against. That appears to be everything.

And market trading (yes trading) is a form of pvp when there is player contention. Simply flogging your stuff at the highest current has no contention for the seller and so isn't pvp.


Against facts, there are no arguments. Also, your quote about trading not being a PvP activity is pure comic material, it's going to make a good forum signature.

The Tears Must Flow
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#68 - 2013-05-03 14:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
Vaju Enki wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Confirming that making buy/sell orders in EvE Online market is not interacting with anyone and it's not a PvP system.


I like the way you ignore everything you can't argue against. That appears to be everything.

And market trading (yes trading) is a form of pvp when there is player contention. Simply flogging your stuff at the highest current has no contention for the seller and so isn't pvp.


Against facts, there are no arguments. Also, your quote about trading not being a PvP activity is pure comic material, it's going to make a good forum signature.


Awesome. Glad you like it. Care to explain why?

Edit - Are you actually saying that the reason you've not argued against most of what I've said is because it's fact? You appear to be.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#69 - 2013-05-03 14:34:37 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Confirming that making buy/sell orders in EvE Online market is not interacting with anyone and it's not a PvP system.


I like the way you ignore everything you can't argue against. That appears to be everything.

And market trading (yes trading) is a form of pvp when there is player contention. Simply flogging your stuff at the highest current has no contention for the seller and so isn't pvp.


Against facts, there are no arguments. Also, your quote about trading not being a PvP activity is pure comic material, it's going to make a good forum signature.


Awesome. Glad you like it. Care to explain why?

Edit - Are you actually saying that the reason you've not argued against most of what I've said is because it's fact? You appear to be.


"Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?!"
Ellen Ripley

The Tears Must Flow
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#70 - 2013-05-03 14:54:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Theia Matova
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

There needs to be LESS risk for being an outlaw, not more. The reason lowsec is so lowly populated is not because of a LACK of consequences to being an outlaw


err sorry I lose track right here. So low sec should only be for outlaws? How do you define one being outlaw if everyone are just raging lunatics? There is no law so there is no outlaws.

The reason why low sec is so little populated right now is because most popular entry points are gate campped almost 24/7. Tell me how low sec gets populated when you get blown up before you even get where you are going?

This risk that was suggested is rather easy to avoid you simply need to move. You would have to be more cunning to be pirate. Right now big part of piracy is to land your insta lock ABC to gate and wait that someone goes through. Oh don't forget the alt on the start of the tube to check who is coming.. Seriously this for of low sec PVP that is mostly in fashion right now is so lame. You can as well be blowing up NPCs such lame it is. I would say that its less risk for pirate than running level IV mission since pirates can always have scouts and be well known what is coming. Local makes it also sure that no one can land fleet on you because you can see it already very soon before.

Risk of gate camping should be increased. What comes to other form of piracy not.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#71 - 2013-05-03 15:11:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Theia Matova wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

There needs to be LESS risk for being an outlaw, not more. The reason lowsec is so lowly populated is not because of a LACK of consequences to being an outlaw


err sorry I lose track right here. So low sec should only be for outlaws? How do you define one being outlaw if everyone are just raging lunatics? There is no law so there is no outlaws.

This risk that was suggested is rather easy to avoid you simply need to move. You would have to be more cunning to be pirate. Right now big part of piracy is to land your insta lock ABC to gate and wait that someone goes through. Oh don't forget the alt on the start of the tube to check who is coming.. Seriously this for of low sec PVP that is mostly in fashion right now is so ********. You can as well be blowing up NPCs such lame it is. I would say that its less risk for pirate than running level IV mission since pirates can always have scouts and be well known what is coming. Local makes it also sure that no one can land fleet on you because you can see it already very soon before.

Risk of gate camping should be increased. What comes to other form of piracy not.

The reason why low sec is so little populated right now is because most popular entry points are gate campped almost 24/7. Tell me how low sec gets populated when you get blown up before you even get where you are going?


Yep, all connections between highsec and lowsec have a gatecamp....... now back to reality.

Gatecamps are run by players not NPC's. It's a player run event, they are pirating, committing acts of criminal violence, feasting on the weak and stupid, just like they did in the caribbeans, it's an awesome event. Now if you don't like that, how about do something about it, assemble a fleet and go take them down? How about you form a corporation to hunt down pirates in lowsec?

It's really amazing how all themeparker expect NPC's to do their job and defend them in a sandbox mmo-rpg game. It's really pathetic. NPC's are not in the game to protect you, not even Concord. Concord exist to punish, not to protect.

The Tears Must Flow
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-05-03 15:18:03 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:


Yep, all connections between highsec and lowsec have a gatecamp....... now back to reality.

Gatecamps are run by players not NPC's. It's a player run event, they are pirating, committing acts of criminal violence, feasting on the weak and stupid, just like they did in the caribbeans, it's an awesome event. Now if you don't like that, how about do something about it, assemble a fleet go take them down?

It's really amazing how all themeparker expect NPC's to do their job and defend them in a sandbox mmo-rpg game. It's really pathetic. NPC's are not in the game to protect you, not even Concord. Concord exist to punish, not to protect.


Do you really have such low standards for yourself? Your first paragraph is an obvious strawman that does not reflect the reality of what you quoted in the least. If you're going to participate in a discussion, have the dignity to actually participate instead of making up idiotic phantoms to contradict.

You are repeatedly derailing the conversation and attempting to shut down an idea that you clearly do not understand. I certainly agree that the vision for NPCs in EVE which you are proposing is bad. Of course NPCs shouldn't do a player's job for them, NPCs should do their own job.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#73 - 2013-05-03 15:19:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Theia Matova
Vaju Enki wrote:
Yep, all connections between highsec and lowsec have a gatecamp....... now back to reality.

Gatecamps are run by players not NPC's. It's a player run event, they are pirating, committing acts of criminal violence, feasting on the weak and stupid, just like they did in the caribbeans, it's an awesome event. Now if you don't like that, how about do something about it, assemble a fleet go take them down? How about you form a corporation to hunt down pirates in lowsec?

It's really amazing how all themeparker expect NPC's to do their job and defend them in a sandbox mmo-rpg game. It's really pathetic. NPC's are not in the game to protect you, not even Concord. Concord exist to punish, not to protect.


It sounds to me that you are simply scared of need to move from system to system because whoops you might get to blown up and being the "stupid". Yes if it was more risky for you to stay at one place you would get more pirate to pirate interaction and pvp thats what you want? Oh wait NPCs are bad take them away they never do any good.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#74 - 2013-05-03 15:21:24 UTC
Xavier Thorm wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:


Yep, all connections between highsec and lowsec have a gatecamp....... now back to reality.

Gatecamps are run by players not NPC's. It's a player run event, they are pirating, committing acts of criminal violence, feasting on the weak and stupid, just like they did in the caribbeans, it's an awesome event. Now if you don't like that, how about do something about it, assemble a fleet go take them down?

It's really amazing how all themeparker expect NPC's to do their job and defend them in a sandbox mmo-rpg game. It's really pathetic. NPC's are not in the game to protect you, not even Concord. Concord exist to punish, not to protect.


Do you really have such low standards for yourself? Your first paragraph is an obvious strawman that does not reflect the reality of what you quoted in the least. If you're going to participate in a discussion, have the dignity to actually participate instead of making up idiotic phantoms to contradict.

You are repeatedly derailing the conversation and attempting to shut down an idea that you clearly do not understand. I certainly agree that the vision for NPCs in EVE which you are proposing is bad. Of course NPCs shouldn't do a player's job for them, NPCs should do their own job.


Are you stupid? What the hell are you talking about? No wonder Test is fail cascading.

The Tears Must Flow
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#75 - 2013-05-03 15:22:48 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Yep, all connections between highsec and lowsec have a gatecamp....... now back to reality.

Gatecamps are run by players not NPC's. It's a player run event, they are pirating, committing acts of criminal violence, feasting on the weak and stupid, just like they did in the caribbeans, it's an awesome event. Now if you don't like that, how about do something about it, assemble a fleet go take them down? How about you form a corporation to hunt down pirates in lowsec?

It's really amazing how all themeparker expect NPC's to do their job and defend them in a sandbox mmo-rpg game. It's really pathetic. NPC's are not in the game to protect you, not even Concord. Concord exist to punish, not to protect.


It sounds to me that you are simply scared of need to move from system to system because whoops you might get to blown up and being the "stupid". Yes if it was more risky for you to stay at one place you would get more pirate to pirate interaction and pvp thats what you want? Oh wait NPCs are bad take them away they never do any good.


Why should i be scared of NPC's in a sandbox mmo-rpg game? I should be scared of other players.

The Tears Must Flow
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#76 - 2013-05-03 15:30:10 UTC
What comes to low sec and piracy too is that. Right now pirates need to shoot pirates for bounties / loot. When they are not PVPing that is. Of course killing NPC pirates also work for sec repair activity as well but when there would be other type of NPCs corporation / empire NPCs to kill they could perhaps yield higher value for loot but no bounty. So you could actually perhaps get needed modules you lose for PVP but also give you perhaps little dilemma how to trade it out since you are outlaw. Some of these dropped items could be tagged illegal like lets say real life money gets market with paint shot. So you would have to some how get it washed to get its true value.

So this would add more to piracy at least for those that did not care about their sec status. I even would like that this loot dropped from these empire NPCs was seriously higher to pirates. Or that you could blackmail them whatever illegal activity. That your sec status would stay below 0s so I can be trigger happy when I meet you.. The tag sec up that comes with Odyssey is bit gay since they did not announce it to have any cooldown. If getting rid of it is too easy then it does not stand any meaning..

This would of course perhaps mean that you could be "friends" with these NPC pirates that they would not be aggressive towards you.
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-05-03 15:32:09 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:


Are you stupid? What the hell are you talking about? No wonder Test is fail cascading.


Oooh, right in the feels. I am now so distracted by your accusation that my alliance is fail cascading that I will ignore the obvious lack of response to my critique of your misleading and illogical posts.

...nah.

Seriously, if you're best response to the problems I'm pointing out with your logic and decorum is to change the topic, I feel that is a pretty clear indicator of just how little substance there is to your argument.

Vaju Enki wrote:
Why should i be scared of NPC's in a sandbox mmo-rpg game? I should be scared of other players.


You keep throwing around "sandbox mmo-rpg" as if that name somehow inherently argues against the idea of NPC content, yet you have provided no explanation of how it does. My argument is that NPC content enhances the RP aspect of an MMORPG, provides more focal points for the massively multiplayer aspect to occur around (particularly in a game such as EVE where there is a lot of "empty" space) and enhances the sandbox element by giving the player more "sand" with which to sculpt the world and their role in it.
El Geo
Warcrows
Sedition.
#78 - 2013-05-03 19:27:35 UTC
The new tags to increase sec status will help lowsec become more populated, I for one am lazy when it comes to gaining sec and prefer to stay above -2, so the new changes should see more people looking for things to kill, this doesn't exactly create a sandbox though, miners and industrialists are likely to still stay away, how to bring them into lowsec?

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Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#79 - 2013-05-03 19:54:29 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Why should i be scared of NPC's in a sandbox mmo-rpg game? I should be scared of other players.

What's wrong with being scared of both?

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#80 - 2013-05-03 20:03:04 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Gatecamps are run by players not NPC's. It's a player run event, they are pirating, committing acts of criminal violence, feasting on the weak and stupid, just like they did in the caribbeans, it's an awesome event. Now if you don't like that, how about do something about it, assemble a fleet and go take them down? How about you form a corporation to hunt down pirates in lowsec?

Let me stop you right there, you see, we players do not run a single governmental agency.
Back in the day, the law was the monarchy, and people called out to the navy "come save me!".
Capsuleers don't care, they aren't voted for. They just shout "harden the **** up" at victims and ignore.
I know I probably shouldn't rhyme, but the empires need to realize that it's time.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.