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NPC Fleets in Low-Sec
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Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-05-02 23:04:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Thorm
Teckos Pech wrote:
Nobody is saying remove all NPCs, but that the NPC experience is not a big part of the Eve experience.


Vaju Enki wrote:
things like NPC shouldn't exist in EvE and hopefully will be removed from the game in a near future. Players are the "NPC's".


He is.

Teckos Pech wrote:


Dude...space is big, hence the name. I think an argument can be made that you should find empty systems.


I didn't say you shouldn't find any empty systems: I said that I find too many of them. The population of New Eden must be absolutely absurd given the size of ship crews and such (I don't know if there are official numbers on planetary populations). Add to that the logistical structure it would take to keep the corporations, governments, and other entities in EVE running, and space should be a hell of a lot more populated than it is. At least in Empire space.

Teckos Pech wrote:
It takes resources from fixing things that are clearly broken and allocates them to something of dubious value.


1). I already addressed that I wouldn't want this to be a top priority.

2). The current lack of NPC activity in EVE is something that is "clearly broken" to me.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2013-05-03 02:33:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Xavier Thorm wrote:


He is.


Ok, I missed his comment. Aside from one guy, nobody else is saying remove NPCs.

Quote:
I didn't say you shouldn't find any empty systems: I said that I find too many of them. The population of New Eden must be absolutely absurd given the size of ship crews and such (I don't know if there are official numbers on planetary populations). Add to that the logistical structure it would take to keep the corporations, governments, and other entities in EVE running, and space should be a hell of a lot more populated than it is. At least in Empire space.


I don't see it that way.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines

The lower bound there for Titans is equivalent to what you'd find on the U.S.S. Nimitz.

Quote:


1). I already addressed that I wouldn't want this to be a top priority.

2). The current lack of NPC activity in EVE is something that is "clearly broken" to me.


Whatever, I see Eve's NPCs as acceptable. If you are logging into Eve for the NPC experience then, IMO, you are doing it wrong.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Andrea Griffin
#43 - 2013-05-03 05:25:24 UTC
The Sleepers need to strike back.

A large force - a very large force - of Sleepers should periodically attack player structures inside of wormholes. Multiple carriers, battleships, the works, enough to endanger a well defended large tower with a defense fleet and POS gunners.

Make those C5 and C6 wormhole holders really work for that loot. : >

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#44 - 2013-05-03 07:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
So much clueless themeparkers in this thread...

Again, EvE Online is a ruthless and competitive PvP sandbox mmo-rpg, where emergent gameplay and the butterfly effect are the heart and soul of the game. In order for this to work, almost everything in EvE Online involves some form of PvP competition, this game is all about player interactions, it's about playing with people and against people, players make the stories, players make the content, players make the market, players make the conflicts, players make the drama, players make everything.

So to sum it up, NPC interaction should be lowered not increased, dependence on NPC's is a typical feature of trash kindergarten themepark mmo-rpg's. Now if you like that genre of games, then good news for you, since there are a few games out there that will suits your themepark needs.

The Tears Must Flow
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
Sedition.
#45 - 2013-05-03 08:33:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Loki Feiht
Vaju Enki wrote:
So much clueless themeparkers in this thread...

Again, EvE Online is a ruthless and competitive PvP sandbox mmo-rpg, where emergent gameplay and the butterfly effect are the heart and soul of the game. In order for this to work, almost everything in EvE Online involves some form of PvP competition, this game is all about player interactions, it's about playing with people and against people, players make the stories, players make the content, players make the market, players make the conflicts, players make the drama, players make everything.

So to sum it up, NPC interaction should be lowered not increased, dependence on NPC's is a typical feature of trash kindergarten themepark mmo-rpg's. Now if you like that genre of games, then good news for you, since there are a few games out there that will suits your themepark needs.


Over and over again these people post, i wonder, did they post these same comments on the patches that changed other pve activity, added w-space (it wasnt supposed to be lived in), incursions, anomalies and other nullsec heavy pve activities like ratting, do they comment on the new npc's being introduced to the game which drop tags for sec status as being meaningless theme park material?

You seem to forget that Eve is a game and games require content, I have met plenty of people who dislike shooting it out with other players but love other aspects of it and have played for years, I would also consider more additions to the games content which encouraged gaining suspect flags only increases the value of said NPC's.

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858
Mag's
Azn Empire
#46 - 2013-05-03 09:19:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
No to all tbh. NPC police, whether faction or concord, do not belong in low sec. All the things you ask for, can be and are being done by players right now. It looks like you have no real understanding, of what life is like as a pirate in low sec.

Oh and I love the RL moral splurge. Good to see that the moral high ground crew, still cannot differentiate between RL and a game. You go girl.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#47 - 2013-05-03 09:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Loki Feiht wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
So much clueless themeparkers in this thread...

Again, EvE Online is a ruthless and competitive PvP sandbox mmo-rpg, where emergent gameplay and the butterfly effect are the heart and soul of the game. In order for this to work, almost everything in EvE Online involves some form of PvP competition, this game is all about player interactions, it's about playing with people and against people, players make the stories, players make the content, players make the market, players make the conflicts, players make the drama, players make everything.

So to sum it up, NPC interaction should be lowered not increased, dependence on NPC's is a typical feature of trash kindergarten themepark mmo-rpg's. Now if you like that genre of games, then good news for you, since there are a few games out there that will suits your themepark needs.


Over and over again these people post, i wonder, did they post these same comments on the patches that changed other pve activity, added w-space (it wasnt supposed to be lived in), incursions, anomalies and other nullsec heavy pve activities like ratting, do they comment on the new npc's being introduced to the game which drop tags for sec status as being meaningless theme park material?

You seem to forget that Eve is a game and games require content, I have met plenty of people who dislike shooting it out with other players but love other aspects of it and have played for years, I would also consider more additions to the games content which encouraged gaining suspect flags only increases the value of said NPC's.


This type of people that you are talking about are the EvE Online sandbox players, the heart of the game, the emergent gameplay drivers. Every day people like us create game content, we create historys to be told, awesome player interaction and great drama. The butterfly effect unfolds and because of people like us, the universe is alive, EvE is Real.

Now unlike your type of people, we will still be play this amazing game 10 years from now, while you and your type will be killing NPC's in the next kindergarten themepark game.

The Tears Must Flow
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#48 - 2013-05-03 10:14:12 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
This type of people that you are talking about are the EvE Online sandbox players, the heart of the game, the emergent gameplay drivers. Every day people like us create game content, we create historys to be told, awesome player interaction and great drama. The butterfly effect unfolds and because of people like us, the universe is alive, EvE is Real.

Now unlike your type of people, we will still be play this amazing game 10 years from now, will you and your type will be killing NPC's in the next kindergarten themepark game.


You do realise that without all those people killing npcs the economy would spiral out of control right? Without all those rats most people wouldn't be able to make money or would be forced into mining and so most people would stop playing the game. You'll say that no they won't because they play emergent content created by the players for the players, right? Wrong. That's actually a minority of players.

For you to enjoy your emergent gameplay you need a large number of people feeding the economy through ratting and other pve content and a large number of people mining the minerals to make the ships and modules you love to destroy. Not to mention all that officer and deadspace loot which would dry up if you removed pve from the game.

I hear a lot of rhetoric from people like you who claim that EvE is just a pvp sandbox but you're mistaken. It's a sandbox. People can chose whether to pvp or pve. The fact that sometimes they blend at the edges is merely a function of the emergent systems. Claiming that EvE shouldn't have npcs shows a lack of understanding of the overall picture.

So before you bash people who pve consider what your game would be without them. Nothing.

And before you say "you're just a themeparker so your opinion is invalid" I live in nullsec and almost exclusively pvp when I get chance to play.
Mr VonBraun
Collegium Ignis
#49 - 2013-05-03 10:35:57 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Another confused themeparker post....

EvE Online is an sandbox mmo-rpg game, not a kindergarten themepark game. In EvE, players are the content. It makes no sense to spend CCP precious time making worthless themepark stuff, things like NPC shouldn't exist in EvE and hopefully will be removed from the game in a near future. Players are the "NPC's".



So...no missions,no rats in betts,no concord? come on...these are a huge part of the game. I for one would welcome seeing mining NPC's,or NPC haulers warping from gate to gate. It's just adding flavour to the universe. There are billions,maybe trillions of people living in New Eden who AREN'T capsuleers after all.....
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#50 - 2013-05-03 10:36:02 UTC
Just in case you missed that detail even if you exclusively pve you are doing it against other players so technically you pvp. Every rat you kill is denied to another player, every ISK you make is denied to other player, every rock you mine out is denied to other player. Every sec status gain you get from rat kill is a possible advantage you will have over other player, every market transaction you make is done against other players.

So yeah, Eve is pvp sandbox whether you like it or not.

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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#51 - 2013-05-03 10:49:17 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Just in case you missed that detail even if you exclusively pve you are doing it against other players so technically you pvp. Every rat you kill is denied to another player, every ISK you make is denied to other player, every rock you mine out is denied to other player. Every sec status gain you get from rat kill is a possible advantage you will have over other player, every market transaction you make is done against other players.

So yeah, Eve is pvp sandbox whether you like it or not.


lol. only because you define it so. The rat you killed in an empty system, which you've supposedly denied someone else although there isn't anyone there to deny, just respawned so when someone else comes into system they kill it. That there is pve, not pvp.

When pve content is undisputed it's not pvp, it's pve. When pve content is disputed it's pve and pvp at the same time. When players fight it's pvp.

It's all in the definition and we can all define it in ways to fit our arguments.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#52 - 2013-05-03 11:00:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
Teckos Pech wrote:
I don't see it that way.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines

The lower bound there for Titans is equivalent to what you'd find on the U.S.S. Nimitz.


Which still means there are tens of millions of people living on supercapitals alone.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
NekoKitten
Neko Industry 'n' PvE
#53 - 2013-05-03 11:20:14 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Another confused themeparker post....

EvE Online is an sandbox mmo-rpg game, not a kindergarten themepark game. In EvE, players are the content. It makes no sense to spend CCP precious time making worthless themepark stuff, things like NPC shouldn't exist in EvE and hopefully will be removed from the game in a near future. Players are the "NPC's".


If that happens, I'm out of the game forever and I'm sure a lot of other people feel the same way like me. I like PvE way more that PvP and I need my daily shot of killing NPC's.

I like the suggestions in the original post and some form of roaming concord, but a lot less strong than the hisec one, they should be defeatable. (stronger/better AI than regular NPC's, but not unlimited powered like in hisec)
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#54 - 2013-05-03 11:37:10 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
This type of people that you are talking about are the EvE Online sandbox players, the heart of the game, the emergent gameplay drivers. Every day people like us create game content, we create historys to be told, awesome player interaction and great drama. The butterfly effect unfolds and because of people like us, the universe is alive, EvE is Real.

Now unlike your type of people, we will still be play this amazing game 10 years from now, will you and your type will be killing NPC's in the next kindergarten themepark game.


You do realise that without all those people killing npcs the economy would spiral out of control right? Without all those rats most people wouldn't be able to make money or would be forced into mining and so most people would stop playing the game. You'll say that no they won't because they play emergent content created by the players for the players, right? Wrong. That's actually a minority of players.

For you to enjoy your emergent gameplay you need a large number of people feeding the economy through ratting and other pve content and a large number of people mining the minerals to make the ships and modules you love to destroy. Not to mention all that officer and deadspace loot which would dry up if you removed pve from the game.

I hear a lot of rhetoric from people like you who claim that EvE is just a pvp sandbox but you're mistaken. It's a sandbox. People can chose whether to pvp or pve. The fact that sometimes they blend at the edges is merely a function of the emergent systems. Claiming that EvE shouldn't have npcs shows a lack of understanding of the overall picture.

So before you bash people who pve consider what your game would be without them. Nothing.

And before you say "you're just a themeparker so your opinion is invalid" I live in nullsec and almost exclusively pvp when I get chance to play.


They only non-PvP activity in EvE Online is the login screen phase, and even then it can be PvP if you have a keylogger infecting your computer.

The Tears Must Flow
El Geo
Warcrows
Sedition.
#55 - 2013-05-03 11:40:27 UTC  |  Edited by: El Geo
You know there aren't many players against better content but the ones that are seriously irritate me

+1 for better content, however its implemented

btw notice how vajajay posts using his alt, paranoid of using your main?

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Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2013-05-03 11:46:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Thorm
Vaju Enki wrote:


This type of people that you are talking about are the EvE Online sandbox players, the heart of the game, the emergent gameplay drivers. Every day people like us create game content, we create historys to be told, awesome player interaction and great drama. The butterfly effect unfolds and because of people like us, the universe is alive, EvE is Real.

Now unlike your type of people, we will still be play this amazing game 10 years from now, while you and your type will be killing NPC's in the next kindergarten themepark game.


Oh no you didn't...

Look at my alliance and corp: I was there when we opened the Eye of Terror and seiged Fountain, when the north burned, for "goodfights" in DQPB, and a million other famous events. I play EVE because I can be part of a world worth telling stories about, and that is exactly why I want more NPCs and not less.

Capsuleers can never make up the entire population of New Eden, and it wouldn't make sense if they could. Without NPCs we end up living in a dead universe that gives us no reason to interact with it; a sandbox without sand. This fear of content that you have shows that you have no concept of game design, but are terrified of anything that might change a game you don't even understand. Go crawl back into your hole and hide from the NPCs, let the rest of us actually play the game.

Vaju Enki wrote:
They only non-PvP activity in EvE Online is the login screen phase, and even then it can be PvP if you have a keylogger infecting your computer.


This is a kind of weird way of putting it, but yes, you're right, and again, this is yet another reason to have more non-player content; to encourage more PvP. The more things there are are for players to go out into space and do, the more opportunities for dynamic interaction.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#57 - 2013-05-03 11:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
Vaju Enki wrote:
They only non-PvP activity in EvE Online is the login screen phase, and even then it can be PvP if you have a keylogger infecting your computer.


Reiterating the same thing doesn't really have any more affect than it did the first time. You appear to be a very close minded individual.

I played EvE for 6 months on a purely pve basis. I wasn't contested on any of the PvE content I played. I wasn't contested on any of the loot I sold as I simply sold it to the highest buy order on the market. I didn't interact with anyone. The people with buy/sell orders on the market were pvping, yes, but I wasn't. There wasn't any contention there so no pvp. I was playing PvE in a PvP game, simple as. After about 6 months I got suicide ganked and yes, that can be defined as PvP although at the time I defined it as a mild irritation, replaced the ship and moved on. I'm pretty damn sure there are a lot of people who play in high sec who would agree with that. They play the pve content and find the pvp side a necessary evil.

Whilst I don't do this now it doesn't mean others don't. You claiming that the pve side should be completely removed is just preposterous and the fact you merely came back to reiterate what you've already said rather than positing any arguments as to why I'm wrong and PvE could be removed from the game without massive and irrecoverable reprecussions just shows how little you really understand. Your assertions are false and you simply can't back them up because of it.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#58 - 2013-05-03 11:55:56 UTC
El Geo wrote:
You know there aren't many players against better content but the ones that are seriously irritate me

+1 for better content, however its implemented

btw notice how vajajay posts using his alt, paranoid of using your main?


Please tell me more about your bizarre delusions.

The Tears Must Flow
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#59 - 2013-05-03 11:57:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Tchulen wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
They only non-PvP activity in EvE Online is the login screen phase, and even then it can be PvP if you have a keylogger infecting your computer.


Reiterating the same thing doesn't really have any more affect than it did the first time. You appear to be a very close minded individual.

I played EvE for 6 months on a purely pve basis. I wasn't contested on any of the PvE content I played. I wasn't contested on any of the loot I sold as I simply sold it to the highest buy order on the market. I didn't interact with anyone. The people with buy/sell orders on the market were pvping, yes, but I wasn't. There wasn't any contention there so no pvp. I was playing PvE in a PvP game, simple as. After about 6 months I got suicide ganked and yes, that can be defined as PvP although at the time I defined it as a mild irritation, replaced the ship and moved on. I'm pretty damn sure there are a lot of people who play in high sec who would agree with that. They play the pve content and find the pvp side a necessary evil.

Whilst I don't do this now it doesn't mean others don't. You claiming that the pve side should be completely removed is just preposterous and the fact you merely came back to reiterate what you've already said rather than positing any arguments as to why I'm wrong and PvE could be removed from the game without massive and irrecoverable reprecussions just shows how little you really understand. You're assertions are false and you simply can't back them up because of it.


Confirming that making buy/sell orders in EvE Online market is not interacting with anyone and it's not a PvP system.

The Tears Must Flow
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#60 - 2013-05-03 12:12:49 UTC
Nobody is saying "remove all NPC", what we are saying is mining NPC fleet at lowsec belts will never be better than players mining fleet at lowsec belts. Of course spawning NPCs is way easier than giving players purpose and means to go to lowsec belts for mining ops but no matter how you cut and slice it it is cheap solution.

And btw, selling to highest buy order means player who created that order just won against other market players -> you were involved in pvp.

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