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Has anyone been able to pin the average yearly inflation in Eve?

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Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#1 - 2013-04-22 16:16:55 UTC
It varies a lot from item to item. For example the hulk going from 80 million to 300 million in 4 years can hardly represent inflation as a whole but looking at everything. What do you think the yearly inflation is?

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-04-22 16:20:07 UTC
It's essentially irrelevant. The value of goods adjusts based on the value of their input materials, which in turn adjust based on changes in supply and demand. If inflation factors into this at all it's a tiny effect that gets drowned out by the larger swings.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#3 - 2013-04-22 16:40:07 UTC
It's a good way to determine how much ISK a person losses per year by just sitting on the actual ISK rather than goods.

It's also relevant when making investments and loans.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-04-22 17:11:55 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
It varies a lot from item to item. For example the hulk going from 80 million to 300 million in 4 years can hardly represent inflation as a whole but looking at everything. What do you think the yearly inflation is?

EyjoG will certainly give us up-to-date numbers at FF

.

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-04-22 17:29:10 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
It's a good way to determine how much ISK a person losses per year by just sitting on the actual ISK rather than goods.

It's also relevant when making investments and loans.


You're missing my point.

http://i.imgur.com/T1JItRa.png

That's a chart of the price indices in EVE, the most recent one available (which isn't very recent, unfortunately.) When EyjoG is talking about "inflation" at all, he's basing it on the purple line, the Consumer Price Index. I've taken and labeled this chart with various significant events that caused a large swing in one index or another, all of which is ultimately reflected in the CPI.

Because the effects of these supply/demand changes are so large and dramatic, it's difficult (if not impossible) to sort out the effects of "real" inflation on the prices of goods. And, because those supply/demand changes can move the CPI up just as easily as they can down, a person holding liquid isk could just as easily "gain" value as they could "lose" it.

That, in my mind, makes trying to discuss inflation - especially in terms of inflation due to expansion of the money supply or whatever - fairly pointless.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#6 - 2013-04-24 01:34:18 UTC
The PLEX/ISK exchange rate is IMO a measure of inflation.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-04-24 02:43:46 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The PLEX/ISK exchange rate is IMO a measure of inflation.


I disagree. :) In general terms, my observation is that PLEX responds to availability of player income as evaluated by a few factors - how high that income is, how accessible it is (ie is it limited to WH only, nullsec only, anyone in highsec, as well as skill requirements), and how passive it is. The higher it is, the more accessible it is, and/or the more passive it is, and the larger the effect it will have on PLEX prices. PI, Incursions and the old FW system (button orbiting for hundreds of millions an hour) all provide examples of this, albeit in their own weightings on each factor.

Now, like the CPI, PLEX prices may be susceptible to "normal" inflationary pressures as well, it's just these other price factors drown them out so much that it's hard to separate.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#8 - 2013-04-24 16:57:34 UTC
If anyone wants to look at markets which haven't changed significantly from around a year ago, just look at the common T2 modules.

Sure, there's been seasonal variation (player activity levels affect prices, of course), but all in all, they're not /that/ different.

Of course, the prices of these include a large chunk of player time. The only thing with true value in the game.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
#9 - 2013-04-24 18:44:38 UTC
It would be interesting to plot the player inflation vs. money supply vs. [take your pick of market indicators]. I'm curious how much the average ISK/character has increased as the ultra-rich hoard and the new players skill up/ISK up.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#10 - 2013-04-25 05:08:03 UTC
What kind of money sinks do we have in the game to help counter inflation?

Ship repair is a minor one.... Clones I suppose. The insurance system is a real villain because you lose a ship that was built using real goods and the game reimburses you with ISK created out of thin air.

A lot of goods and skill books on the market are sold by NPCs as well aren't they?

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#11 - 2013-04-25 12:06:08 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What kind of money sinks do we have in the game to help counter inflation?

Ship repair is a minor one.... Clones I suppose. The insurance system is a real villain because you lose a ship that was built using real goods and the game reimburses you with ISK created out of thin air.

A lot of goods and skill books on the market are sold by NPCs as well aren't they?



Loyalty point stores are an ISK sink of note, as are market taxes.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-04-25 13:59:07 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What kind of money sinks do we have in the game to help counter inflation?

Ship repair is a minor one.... Clones I suppose. The insurance system is a real villain because you lose a ship that was built using real goods and the game reimburses you with ISK created out of thin air.

A lot of goods and skill books on the market are sold by NPCs as well aren't they?


Insurance is minor. The net faucet is perhaps a trillion isk or so, which pales in comparison to bounties (20-30T/mo).

http://blog.beyondreality.se/ISK-faucets-sinks has a decent roundup of sinks and faucets. It's old info, but there isn't anything really new lately.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Obunagawe
#13 - 2013-04-27 17:44:28 UTC
OllieNorth wrote:
It would be interesting to plot the player inflation vs. money supply vs. [take your pick of market indicators]. I'm curious how much the average ISK/character has increased as the ultra-rich hoard and the new players skill up/ISK up.


Gap is getting absolutely ridiculous. Every person I speak to has at least one Titan and a double-figure number of alts and isk well up in the hundreds of bils, OR they have exactly **** all.
Tatminator
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-05-02 23:49:12 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What kind of money sinks do we have in the game to help counter inflation?

Ship repair is a minor one.... Clones I suppose. The insurance system is a real villain because you lose a ship that was built using real goods and the game reimburses you with ISK created out of thin air.

A lot of goods and skill books on the market are sold by NPCs as well aren't they?


Insurance is minor. The net faucet is perhaps a trillion isk or so, which pales in comparison to bounties (20-30T/mo).

http://blog.beyondreality.se/ISK-faucets-sinks has a decent roundup of sinks and faucets. It's old info, but there isn't anything really new lately.


Insurance by no means is counter-inflation thing. It in fact increases ability of pilots to buy new ships after loss, which means that there're are more incentives for ore to be mined. This is pro-inflation thing (it adds to isk pool).

Bounties are a bit of neither if I know mechanics right. If i'm correct bounties are paid for by players so it's really only change of hands rather than increase or decrease in pool.
Sola Mercury
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-05-03 10:03:02 UTC
Tatminator wrote:
[quote=mynnna]

Bounties are a bit of neither if I know mechanics right. If i'm correct bounties are paid for by players so it's really only change of hands rather than increase or decrease in pool.


She/he speaks about bountys players collect by killing red crosses.

I think the most anti-inflationary effect comes from massive ISK piles sitting unused in old players wallets.
MacLuven
EL Bernays School of Strategic Communication
#16 - 2013-05-14 06:02:02 UTC
It's been a while since I made this but it wouldn't be hard to update. After spending approximately 15 seconds looking at prices (I just resubbed today), it seems the Mineral Price Index has continued to rise, which would push "inflation" along depending on the Price Indexes you choose to look at. The MPI's probably gone up, but I doubt any Index that uses Tech 2 or Tech 3 as the major component has changed much.

Monthly Eve Inflation Rate Graph (CPI, Lifetime to Feb2012)

This is an easy graph to create if DrEyjoG and the Econ guys are still providing the data.
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#17 - 2013-05-14 06:31:12 UTC  |  Edited by: mechtech
MacLuven wrote:
It's been a while since I made this but it wouldn't be hard to update. After spending approximately 15 seconds looking at prices (I just resubbed today), it seems the Mineral Price Index has continued to rise, which would push "inflation" along depending on the Price Indexes you choose to look at. The MPI's probably gone up, but I doubt any Index that uses Tech 2 or Tech 3 as the major component has changed much.

Monthly Eve Inflation Rate Graph (CPI, Lifetime to Feb2012)

This is an easy graph to create if DrEyjoG and the Econ guys are still providing the data.


Eh, that's BS. Maybe it's true from a purely monetary standpoint, but when I started I remember barely being able to afford a T2 frigate after a month of play, and a battleship was still a big deal that I didn't acquire for months.

In the early days, 1 billion isk had about as much weight as 100 billion has now. To be honest, it's starting to feel like you need to have 1 trillion to be a rich player these days. 4 years ago, 100 billion was almost unimaginable, but it's honestly not that large a sum now. There are T2 BPOs that go for 400 billion isk now... these BPOs would go for 40 billion isk max in the first few years that they entered the game. My Guardian-Vexors have gone from a value of 20-30B when I bought them to about 100B now, even though unique ships are a far more common thing with the AT ships and the constant stream of special edition ships.

I think the pure numbers, and what people mean when they say "inflation" can be quite different.
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-05-14 07:35:43 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie9V2P5El0E

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.

Drachiel
Mercury LLC
#19 - 2013-05-16 01:31:20 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The PLEX/ISK exchange rate is IMO a measure of inflation.


I think it's a better measure than any other item, but you also have to take factors like subscriber base makeup (vets vs rookies) and number of uses for PLEX (resculpt, dual training, etc inherently adds value) into account.

I'd say the only notable inflation in EVE was Incursiongate.
Adunh Slavy
#20 - 2013-05-16 03:23:05 UTC
Monetary inflation in Eve has been absolutely enormous, price inflation has been tame in comparison. Fortunately for Eve, most of the monetary inflation is also countered by increases in productivity, which would explain a considerable portion of the disconnect.

The disconnect can be further explained by the main ISK faucet in Eve, shooting rats. That activity produces more than just ISK. Much of what is produced by rat shooting can be converted to the base commodities of minerals, this pushes prices downwards. Shoot 10 mil worth of rats, and you also probably end up with about 10 mill worth of other stuff. Personally, I think this is bad because it harms the division of labor, something Eve lacks. (I suspect Doc E. doesn't mind it much however, since as a 'central banker' relative price stability is a good thing.)

If rats stopped dropping so much stuff, many prices would be allowed to meet monetary inflation, perhaps the point where shooting rats becomes much less attractive than gathering of base commodities. Monetary inflation would slow and become regulated by the market and player preferences instead of regulated by CCP.

Anyway, back to the main question. Monetary inflation was on the order of something like 13,000% a couple of years ago, price inflation was modest for the baskets CCP used in its measures.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

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