Ships & Modules

Cane you can remove from that list, its good, but not that crazy, the Sleip I'll give you.

But Angles can't be held against the system, their speed and hull bonuses make them silly....and the Vargur is a dedicated PvE ship.

Imba matar is imba. No wonder why so many fanboys want to defend their favourite IWIN race.

Just look at ship stats matar ships are the best , no matter how you look at them.
Best speed, best agility ,best fit, best scan res, best signature,best slot layouts. All of them is very important in pvp.
What disadvantages:
-low sensor range? who cares if it is enough for the weapon it uses , it wouldnt matter a thing if all were 250km.
-low tank??rly? tank comes from fit anyway and not base stats mainly, with easy matar fitting +good slot layout ,matar ships are as tanky as other races ships , except vs resist bonused ones. so this isnt realy a disadvantage at all
-low sensor strength, oh yes 10% lower than the average what a HUGE disadvantage , would only matter a little if ecm would be used much much more, like in every fight
-lower maxcap? hmm the no cap weapons hugely negate this issue completly
what else?? nothing?
yeah the disadvantages completly outweights the advantages...matar ships are so weak bruhuhu


And adding that the ac-s are the perfect close range weapons or arties the only viable long range ones due to immense alpha.

Oh and angel ships are actually improved matar ships , same weapons same fits same style same skills needed.
The gallente skill needed for them doesnt mean anything.


So matar fanboys accept the fact that balancing is needed. It doesnt matter if it done by nerfing or boosting, only stupid ppl think nerf = poorer gameplay , boost = improved gameplay.

Oh and yes about "why dont you fly matar then? " ******** questions , yes we all should fly the same ships... that would rly help the immersion and diversity of eve

btw matar is op for 3+years , should be enough for even the most hardcore easy pvp fanboys, lets change the game if you are that "PRO " pvp gods as you say i bet you will adapt well to anything to come, even if that means crosstrain to another race.

really im still stuck on how exactly the **** you lose to an autocannon harb in a pulse harb. harb gets an actual dmg bonus, how can you possibly welp to someone with the equivalent of BC 0? i mean, i was already 95% sure you were blithering idiot, but thanks for confirming you're bad at spaceships as well.



If you didn't want to discuss fleets, you shouldn't have brought up arty-abaddons and how you thought they were better than Hellcats. I mean, I knew you were talking out of your ass, but might not want to be so obvious about deflecting once someone with a clue about fleet fights posted. At any rate, arty-abaddons only work with a significant numerical advantage against a close range fleet comp. This has nothing to do with dumb, irrelevant (in fleet) **** like "hurr, I'm trimarked so I get kited" and everything to do with unbonused artillery being able to kill only approximately 3 properly tanked ships a minute. Granted, properly tanked means like 150K EHP for shields or 200K EHP for armor and in the early stages of the fight, they can very well volley any subcap or an undertanked carrier. But Hellcats can kill upwards of 10 per minute and sustain this killing more or less indefinitely, unlike artyboats, which very rapidly fade as you lose the critical mass necessary to volley your primaries.

Additionally, Hellcats can continue killing under triage reps, whereas arty has the choice to either volley the triage carrier (not actually as hard as it sounds) or bail out.

Anyway, enough about fleets, since, despite your insistence on bringing up fleet comps, you want to talk about solo/small gang stuffz:
-"Full" tank for a shield Cane is around 48k EHP against MF (assuming you fit a point, ofc).
-a plated and trimarked (2x because 1 ACR necessary for med neut and cap booster) Harb with two heatsinks gets around 62k EHP against Barrage/Fusion (more against everything else)
-that shield cane, with 3 gyros, 2 TEs and Warriors does about 676 DPS firing RF Fusion
-the plated Harb, with 2 heatsinks, HPLs and full flight of Valkyries does 663.

That's around a 2% difference in DPS, with a (roughly) 25% difference in tank. If the shield Cane immediately closes to neut range, it will lose the DPS/EHP race. Even with a small cap booster, you can keep the tackle and turrets on a Harb running, easily.

But wait, there is kiting too, right?

-shield Cane loads Barrage, does 555 DPS
-plated Harb loads Scorch, also does 555 DPS.
-shield Cane does 405 DPS at 20km.
-plated Harb still does 555 at 20km.

Unless the Harb is ******** and lets the Cane sit way out (beyond Scorch optimal, i.e. point range) and eat away it's buffer without trying to warp, it should be able to win or force the Cane to warp off.

This is completely ignoring the fact that the only good time to swap ammo in a Cane is before you are engaged. The 10 seconds of DPS you lose swapping from EMP to Barrage or whatever will not be regained in any reasonable timeframe, unless the Harb literally said "**** it" to any resist mods and is running around with a 10% EXP hole. In comparison, how long does it take to swap from MF to Scorch? Maybe three seconds? Perhaps five if you have fat fingers?



Killboards reflect the current fleet doctrines of major 0.0 entities more than anything. Fleet fights heavily, so very heavily, favor DPS applied across a broad spectrum of ranges. Canes are very much the exception that proves this rule, since the Goon FCs are actually pretty good at what they do and are constantly getting bounces and warpins, but still managing to lose fights when they outnumber their opponent, just because autocannons are barely workable in fleets.

The exceptions are Angel FOTM, which is more about the illusion of invulnerability via speed and the perception that flying nano is more skillful than other forms: i.e. how many Cynas have you seen die stupidly to a single well-flown nano-Drake or Drams dying to Hookbills and Daredevils?



Because nobody flies with a cap injector right? And an EM hardener fits well on my 2x LSE Cane. It also certainly does extremely well against MF which is half thermal. Which I'm going to be eating, since you apparently want me to close up and apply neuting.

why would anybody want to fight at 20km vs a pulse ship with ac fit?:O

IDGI. The standard response's are:

1. Minmatar is fine, look at the drake. Actually, look at heavy missiles in general, but this is beside the point. Let me know when small, medium, and large missiles are all as great as their projectile counterparts.

2. Minmatar is fine, scorch pwns us! As it should, but the problem is you can engage or be engaged by any amarrian ship and have more than enough speed and agility to get out if you're loosing.

Projectiles are clearly out of line given the mobility of minmatar ships. Their only true weakness is sensor strength and I think most of us realize that is a problem.

And just like wow forums has more and more trolls and kids posting "nothing"

Sure.

"you're wrong because you've been playing this game for 18 months!"
Seriously, is that the best you have?

WTB 500 DPS at 24km Cane
WTB 700 DPS at 70km Maelstrom



I never said Minmatar was hard-mode, because that would be silly. Hard mode is Gallente.



I understand small gang warfare just fine. What I don't understand is how you can seriously defend the statement, "autocannon Harb is better than pulse Harb."

That's some mind-boggling **** right there.



I warp off 70% of the time when losing in a Drake that doesn't break 1300m/s (no links, poor nav skills, mids generally too burned to risk overheating, etc.). Speed is nowhere near as important as timing.



Your boy Veshta claimed that arty-abaddons were better than Hellcats, not me. I can't imagine what kind of cripple fight would lead one to believe that, but I assure you, from hands-on, non-EFT experience it's not true.

The only people I see crying are the Minmatar idiots that want to keep their shiny overpowered win boats.

DIAF (in game) you ******* tard.

Learn to play the game.

This is because of mobility and fittings, not damage. As to the OP: I'm -1 to them nerfing before they finish panning out the Hybrid boosts. I don't want to see projectiles turned into the new damps (remember: nerf damps, boost ECM - all in the name of balancing the whole game at a whack).

-Liang