Ships & Modules

Hi Guys.

I'm looking for answers about a theme that has already been discussed thousands of time, but I still can get some answers / final statements about Angular velocity, Tracking and Webifier considering Turrets and Brawling Frigates.

I've read this one wich was the most intersting : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=102375

So... Considering tracking and angular speed, no ship orientation is ever considered, just the speed vectors in a particular time. Transversal speed vector and distance between targets allow you to deducte the radial velocity.

First fun fact : It means that angular velocity between two ships is strictly reciprocal / Mutual. Radial velocity from A to B is always the same from B to A (confirmed during ingame short tests reading the overview numbers), even if signature and signature resolution could mitigate hit chance. But for now we will not consider those factors.

So... If you are orbiting another ship compared to just standing still, you are increasing radial velocity for both the target and yourself, and making it less likely to hit the target for both of you.

Considering turret damages, orbiting is then a pure defensive move :
Increasing radial velocity (more defense) at the expense of greater difficulty to hit the target (less offense).
and has the same effect on the other ship.

Brawling frigates is based on the capacity to max out angular speed to avoid turret damage by bypassing by far the ennemy turret tracking capacities. This is done my maximg speed and a very short orbit range, and keeping the lowest signature possible.

But using a webifier will reduce target speed... and that will have for effect to reduce the mutual radial speed.
So still condirefing turret damages, using a webifier is the opposite of orbiting, it is an offensive move :
reduces radiale velocity (less defense), to increase hit chance (more offense)
Again, Radial velocity reduction applies on both ships.

On the paper, I find it a little weird to use webifier on a brawling frigate which will negate some radial velocity. Wouldn't it be more wise to use a (or another) tracking disruptor which only affect the target tracking resolution ?

In practice, I'm confused... Recenlty, I've got my Dramiel raped by a webifying merlin. He managed to hit me a lot while I had a hard time landing some projectiles on him. How that if we share the same radial velocity and considering the signature of those ships are similar ? I know the blasters to have better tracking, but I think the merlin don't have any tracking bonuses which the Dramiel has.

What do you think ? Thanks for you're help decrypting eve's mechanics.

Note that I didn't want to turn this into a "Why did I loss a Dramiel to a Merlin ?"

The point I particulary interested in are :
Is the Radial Velocity the same for A to B, and B to A ? I think so but...
And then, if the answer is yes...
Do you agree that Webifier may have a downside on the Radial Velocity a brawling frigate is desperate to keep high ?


But the Dramiel / Merlin case is still interesting. Here are the very probable fits of the Merlin :
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19278741
And my Dramiel
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19495931
I will change this for armor tank (no signature malus) / web / tracking disruptor and lose the MWD.
But still... wondering about the webifier if it is really needed. I don't want to put down the radial Velocity.

I have almost maxed out Gunnery Skills, and decent Drone skills. But the warrior II seemed to be totally ineffective.

Maybe a Halo set was involved ?

Agreed. It's about range control.
But won't you aggree it may put down the radial velocity a little bit, as a unwanted secondary effect ?

No, it increases radial velocity for both ships, assuming only one ship is webbing.

1.) A web is often used for range control.

2.) Imagine two ships set to orbit each other. They dont' simply meet up, stop, then start circling in nice neat circles, but instead start circling in a very dynamic fashion that often results in oblong orbits. This is because one ship will find itself not in it's optimal orbit sometime (early on) in the fight and attempt to correct it by flying towards or away from the target. Using a web on your opponent results in them being ~50% slower, allowing your faster ship to easily dictate range and orbit. This can create an advantage that the faster ship can utilize (by fitting smaller guns, increasing orbit speed, enabling them to get better hits or by fitting large guns, decreasing orbit speed, and dealing top damage). If both players fit webs, and both fit the same prop mods, etc.. then the general result is the speed of both ships is reduced to the point that tracking advantages become minimized, although overheating AB's is a trick some people use to regain that advantage.

It is.

palm, meet face.

If they are orbiting in perfect unison (range, speed etc.), there will be 0 radial velocity.


It would increase radial velocity unless both ships are using a web, then it goes back down to 0.

Yeah, don't worry about it. If another frigate has you webbed and is orbiting you very fast within your weapon range, the best defence would be to stop your ship completely and use a TD. I don't think this situation is common in frig fights though.

Maybe.

Let's assume the frigates are identical in every way. What advantage does the defending frigate gain?