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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

First post
Author
Fade Azura
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#2281 - 2013-04-30 15:49:59 UTC
Alticus C Bear wrote:
Broxus Maximas wrote:
Here is what I would change the Domi to:

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+15% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range, Velocity and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 5(-1) turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 425(+50)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)

Still less damage, but better drone utility and now the Domi has a utility high for armor/shield repping or a neut. Overall it now becomes a decent fleet ship and a true drone boat. My changes are highlighted by _____.


This is interesting, it's still hard see how any of the Gallente line up can compete with the Rokh/Abaddon as fleet setups (Minmatar works because of artillery alpha).

Might need to lose a further turret for balance. May indirectly solve the drone control range problem by giving two free utility highs for DLA's that can be swapped for neuts for close range builds. Gives it a definite distinction against the Geddon.

The Domi badly needs at least 25 more bay if not another 50.

50% velocity bonus may be a little too much.



Agreed and i think this is probably the best direction to go ... it seems more synchronus as well .. however instead of a veloicty bonus i would give it a 5-10% Drone control range bonus per level to further synchronize the ship with its intended role as a sentry sniper. the velocity bonus does nothing for sentries but the control range will help by freeing up the 2 utility highs. this is much more acceptable to me even at the loss of another turret slot. and this is coming from someone with all Large turret specs to 4. trust me i like my guns ... i like my drones more though =)

this way you can fit 4x turret and 2x DLA in highs and be competitive with Rokh's+Naga's in a sniper role with sentries being able to follow an attck target command to 120km roughly depending on skils (still need Sebo's to make this work)... the 15% to drone dmg really is needed instead of 10% since even with the optimal range bonus and if u fitted additional Omni's u are not going to be using gardes at this range since its still well outside opitmal for them.

but the gardes would be more inline with the antimatter rokh+Naga ranges and dmg so it would have some compareability dmg projection wise.and the dominix would have something that its better then the geddon at aka being higher drone damage and application..

A higher bay would allow you to mix up several sets of sentries so it not so predictable and means your DPS isnt so easily destroyed.

this seems much more streamlined in my eyes .. but still this is going to be an immobile sitting duck fleet while sentries are deployed regardless.

now to make this work you need to allow ships to stay aligned while not moving ... not sure if this is an easy fix or not. otherwise this is still going to be subpar due to game mechanics

the scoop range should be extended a bit. if i deploy sentries right after coming out of warp in my domi i can still float past them out of docking range before i come to complete stop. another thing that would help droneboats in general alot would allow drones to autodock if u initiate a warp and they are in docking range.

without that i can easily see a FC warping the sentry fleet thats aligned at 0 speed(if this can be fixed) and losing all their sentries.

Jeen Seeker
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2282 - 2013-04-30 17:32:51 UTC
Shpenat wrote:


I will support this with some numbers.

Imagine a situation where the only change to megathron is moving the utility high to low slot and reduction of bandwidth down to 75 kbit/s.

Gun DPS before change: 974 with void
Drone damage before change: 317

Gun damage after change with 3rd magstab: 1096 (+122) with void
Drone damage after change (3 ogres): 190 (-127)
Drone damage after change (max combo): 210 (-107)

The movement of utility high to low pretty much evens out the drone dps loss. In this light the ROF bonus is additional DPS at the expense of higher ammunition consumption.


Also Cap and Lower First Strike (alpha) with the problem of RoF religates a ship to be less effective in the shorter fights that the Mega is know for an better in a Prolonged fight but then the issue of aditional Cap Drain out comes in to it.

This is my last post on this the Mega is Gaining so little DPS for some Conditinal Damg i am arguing that RoF is not a good thing for the Mega,

my last post on this.

- Jeen Seeker
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2283 - 2013-04-30 20:21:41 UTC
Attack battleships

I may post this in every thread.

Anybody feel these are a little lacking in their role.

The Mega may be an exception due to it’s opportunity for massive close range DPS but generally these feel like they should be on the move and yet seem to have cap problems doing so, this is not so much a problem for combat battleships that may end up in scram range or as fleet platforms where mobility is just one factor.

Attack frigates have a role bonus over combat frigates, this helps them maintain tackle and speed by reducing the cap draw of propulsion disruption modules. At battleship level such a bonus would make very little difference but at battleship level, no ship can run a Microwarpdrive for any significant period of time.

How would people feel about a cap reduction role bonus for propulsion modules for all Attack Battleships? Even something as strong as 50% or even 75% to enable these ships to stay on the move (as much as battleships can) without constant cap boosting.
Gunther Nhilathok
Doomheim
#2284 - 2013-04-30 20:55:35 UTC
If you're trying to remove tiers, then why are you reinforcing the idea that the hyperion should be better than the megathron by nerfing the mega and buffing the hype?
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2285 - 2013-04-30 21:17:14 UTC
Gunther Nhilathok wrote:
If you're trying to remove tiers, then why are you reinforcing the idea that the hyperion should be better than the megathron by nerfing the mega and buffing the hype?


its tiers by disguise :P attack role means tier 1 EHP and at battleship level attack just means slightly less brick like... :)

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Luc Chastot
#2286 - 2013-04-30 22:51:58 UTC
Gunther Nhilathok wrote:
If you're trying to remove tiers, then why are you reinforcing the idea that the hyperion should be better than the megathron by nerfing the mega and buffing the hype?

Yeah, the hyperion is faster and has a lower signature radius. It also has 8 lows and a great targeting range.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Broxus Maximas
Perkone
Caldari State
#2287 - 2013-05-01 01:55:25 UTC
Fade Azura wrote:
Alticus C Bear wrote:
Broxus Maximas wrote:
Here is what I would change the Domi to:

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+15% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range, Velocity and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 5(-1) turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 425(+50)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)

Still less damage, but better drone utility and now the Domi has a utility high for armor/shield repping or a neut. Overall it now becomes a decent fleet ship and a true drone boat. My changes are highlighted by _____.


This is interesting, it's still hard see how any of the Gallente line up can compete with the Rokh/Abaddon as fleet setups (Minmatar works because of artillery alpha).

Might need to lose a further turret for balance. May indirectly solve the drone control range problem by giving two free utility highs for DLA's that can be swapped for neuts for close range builds. Gives it a definite distinction against the Geddon.

The Domi badly needs at least 25 more bay if not another 50.

50% velocity bonus may be a little too much.



Agreed and i think this is probably the best direction to go ... it seems more synchronus as well .. however instead of a veloicty bonus i would give it a 5-10% Drone control range bonus per level to further synchronize the ship with its intended role as a sentry sniper. the velocity bonus does nothing for sentries but the control range will help by freeing up the 2 utility highs. this is much more acceptable to me even at the loss of another turret slot. and this is coming from someone with all Large turret specs to 4. trust me i like my guns ... i like my drones more though =)

this way you can fit 4x turret and 2x DLA in highs and be competitive with Rokh's+Naga's in a sniper role with sentries being able to follow an attck target command to 120km roughly depending on skils (still need Sebo's to make this work)... the 15% to drone dmg really is needed instead of 10% since even with the optimal range bonus and if u fitted additional Omni's u are not going to be using gardes at this range since its still well outside opitmal for them.

but the gardes would be more inline with the antimatter rokh+Naga ranges and dmg so it would have some compareability dmg projection wise.and the dominix would have something that its better then the geddon at aka being higher drone damage and application..

A higher bay would allow you to mix up several sets of sentries so it not so predictable and means your DPS isnt so easily destroyed.

this seems much more streamlined in my eyes .. but still this is going to be an immobile sitting duck fleet while sentries are deployed regardless.

now to make this work you need to allow ships to stay aligned while not moving ... not sure if this is an easy fix or not. otherwise this is still going to be subpar due to game mechanics

the scoop range should be extended a bit. if i deploy sentries right after coming out of warp in my domi i can still float past them out of docking range before i come to complete stop. another thing that would help droneboats in general alot would allow drones to autodock if u initiate a warp and they are in docking range.

without that i can easily see a FC warping the sentry fleet thats aligned at 0 speed(if this can be fixed) and losing all their sentries.



Issue of why i want velocity is so that the changes don't only effect sentry drones. The layout that I have give players the option to add a drone range module in their high. The above ship still does less DPS than the current version of the Domi but is much more interesting, versatile and fleet worthy than the current proposed CCP version. Though as some have said maybe the 50% velocity bonus is a tad to high and maybe it should only be 25%. I do hope CCP looks at my proposal and considers it.
Broxus Maximas
Perkone
Caldari State
#2288 - 2013-05-01 02:00:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Broxus Maximas
Why is everyone talking about how now you get this magical 3rd Mag stabilizer with the new Mega. I have always had 3 and this will not change anything. In the version I used I also fitted a missile launcher in the high slot 8th slot. So now for me I lost 2 drones, a missile launcher, and always used 3 mag stabs. I fail to see how the new version gives me really any more DPS. I think I actually lost DPS and gained some resists on my tank. Overall I love the hyper changes (other than the stupid active armor bonus), don't really like the mega changes (I think they need more drones), and despise the horrid domi changes.


Just my 2 cents.
Pankora t'Pastamancer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2289 - 2013-05-01 05:30:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Pankora t'Pastamancer
The dominix bonuses seems .. weak. The reason I say this is because of the split between the turret platform and the drone platform. Now that the damage bonus has been removed from the turret side, and the drone platform has been given a range bonus, the ship's role preference will be moved towards a sniping role. With this, the effectiveness of the turret side is mitigated even more as it doesn't have the range of the now drones, leaving the ship as a mediocre drone sniper.

Opinion: The drone damage bonus should be increased in light of the new changes, to make up for the incoherency.
Tom Guhl
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2290 - 2013-05-01 06:08:51 UTC
Pankora t'Pastamancer wrote:
The dominix bonuses seems .. weak. The reason I say this is because of the split between the turret platform and the drone platform. Now that the damage bonus has been removed from the turret side, and the drone platform has been given a range bonus, the ship's role preference will be moved towards a sniping role. With this, the effectiveness of the turret side is mitigated even more as it doesn't have the range of the now drones, leaving the ship as a mediocre drone sniper.

Opinion: The drone damage bonus should be increased in light of the new changes, to make up for the incoherency.

Fleet sentry drone snipers can't work in a meta that requires snipers to be mobile, until and unless sentries can follow the ship instead of only being able to sit in space. Meanwhile, a big drone damage buff may well render the Domi OP in closer range engagements where it can actually bring both guns and drones to bear.

New Domi will be at least as good as it was before at PVE, and most likely better. As for PVP, it's not that the changes have made Domi any worse, on the contrary it's probably a slight improvement, but that the consensus is that CCP gave a lot of the Domi's niche to the Armageddon and this change doesn't really carve out NEW possibilities.

...Unless someone actually does make sniper sentry Domi work somehow...
Naso Aya
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2291 - 2013-05-01 06:13:37 UTC
What about something like a bonus to drone speed/tracking?
Perihelion Olenard
#2292 - 2013-05-01 11:13:29 UTC
Broxus Maximas wrote:
Why is everyone talking about how now you get this magical 3rd Mag stabilizer with the new Mega. I have always had 3 and this will not change anything. In the version I used I also fitted a missile launcher in the high slot 8th slot. So now for me I lost 2 drones, a missile launcher, and always used 3 mag stabs. I fail to see how the new version gives me really any more DPS. I think I actually lost DPS and gained some resists on my tank. Overall I love the hyper changes (other than the stupid active armor bonus), don't really like the mega changes (I think they need more drones), and despise the horrid domi changes.


Just my 2 cents.

You're forgetting the offensive bonus change. Instead of a damage bonus it gets a rate of fire bonus. It provides more blaster DPS than before which makes the magnetic field stabilizers more effective.
Broxus Maximas
Perkone
Caldari State
#2293 - 2013-05-01 13:13:57 UTC
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
Broxus Maximas wrote:
Why is everyone talking about how now you get this magical 3rd Mag stabilizer with the new Mega. I have always had 3 and this will not change anything. In the version I used I also fitted a missile launcher in the high slot 8th slot. So now for me I lost 2 drones, a missile launcher, and always used 3 mag stabs. I fail to see how the new version gives me really any more DPS. I think I actually lost DPS and gained some resists on my tank. Overall I love the hyper changes (other than the stupid active armor bonus), don't really like the mega changes (I think they need more drones), and despise the horrid domi changes.


Just my 2 cents.

You're forgetting the offensive bonus change. Instead of a damage bonus it gets a rate of fire bonus. It provides more blaster DPS than before which makes the magnetic field stabilizers more effective.


I am tracking that the new bonus gives a 33% damage bonus instead of the previous 25%. Though this comes at the loss of two drones and a missile launcher. So overall it's not really a change to damage at a and actually gives the Mega less versatility.
Leviathan9
Vrihedd Brigade
#2294 - 2013-05-01 18:49:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Leviathan9
Why nerf the Mega's drone space? What was wrong with having 5 heavy drones.. I dislike you nerfing the Mega.. As with this mag stab discussion.. I also always have 3.. I had a 1.4k dps mega.. and now I'm gonna lose 2 drones.. CCP are racist against Gallente! PP
Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#2295 - 2013-05-01 20:36:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Bigg Gun
I posted a couple of weeks ago, and now I see that "my feedback" hasn't done a damn of difference. Yeah, I'm talking about the Domi.

First of all, as some one already mentioned, why even bother making a "Sniper" when it's "guns" won't shoot past 60km. I need 3 modules just to make the damn ship target and activate the drones at 100 + range - sebo and 2 drone range control modules. Some sniper. In fact the shortest ranged sentry drone(garde) will be able to hit beyond the drone control range. Talk about idiots bonus.

Second - how stupid is it to have a sniper which can forget it's guns in space? You move 5 km and forget about getting your drones. Also forget aligning to a planet, sorry all our dps is gone now, we're aligning.

Why change s#it which isn't broken? I never heard anyone complain that the domi is overpowered, this most gallente of all gallente ships should be returned to it's previous glory!!!!!


Look you have 115 pages worth of complaints about the domi. Change it the hell back already !
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Incorruptibles
#2296 - 2013-05-01 22:29:41 UTC
Bigg Gun wrote:

Look you have 115 pages worth of complaints about the domi. Change it the hell back already !


Quite.
Unfortunately, after chucking out the fixes to the megathron and hyperion, rise vanished. I doubt the changes are actually up for debate now - it's been weeks.

Someone.

Heriom
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2297 - 2013-05-01 22:51:09 UTC
This thread has entered Reinforced mode and Is no longer attackable until after the release of Odyssey. (Yes, CCP Rise modified the stront-bay)
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2298 - 2013-05-01 23:06:59 UTC
Broxus Maximas wrote:
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
Broxus Maximas wrote:
Why is everyone talking about how now you get this magical 3rd Mag stabilizer with the new Mega. I have always had 3 and this will not change anything. In the version I used I also fitted a missile launcher in the high slot 8th slot. So now for me I lost 2 drones, a missile launcher, and always used 3 mag stabs. I fail to see how the new version gives me really any more DPS. I think I actually lost DPS and gained some resists on my tank. Overall I love the hyper changes (other than the stupid active armor bonus), don't really like the mega changes (I think they need more drones), and despise the horrid domi changes.


Just my 2 cents.

You're forgetting the offensive bonus change. Instead of a damage bonus it gets a rate of fire bonus. It provides more blaster DPS than before which makes the magnetic field stabilizers more effective.


I am tracking that the new bonus gives a 33% damage bonus instead of the previous 25%. Though this comes at the loss of two drones and a missile launcher. So overall it's not really a change to damage at a and actually gives the Mega less versatility.


This is what I thought as well but remember that's 33% to your unmodded dps. Adding the mag stabs means you're modifying a larger figure than you were with the 25% damage bonus, and thus it stacks even better. That Jerhick dude posted images of his dps with the fits from the current mega and the one on the test server.

All that said, I don't think it would be overpowered to give it back its drones. In order to do that massive dps it has to go into the optimal of almost every offensive mod in the game.
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Incorruptibles
#2299 - 2013-05-02 21:57:21 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:

This is what I thought as well but remember that's 33% to your unmodded dps. Adding the mag stabs means you're modifying a larger figure than you were with the 25% damage bonus, and thus it stacks even better. That Jerhick dude posted images of his dps with the fits from the current mega and the one on the test server.

All that said, I don't think it would be overpowered to give it back its drones. In order to do that massive dps it has to go into the optimal of almost every offensive mod in the game.


Agreed - the mega having its drones back would be a nice change and would help it out a lot given how short its range is.

Someone.

Lekgoa
Free State Project
#2300 - 2013-05-02 23:29:34 UTC
The domi changes are pretty lackluster. It will have relatively low on-paper DPS with any setup, and without major changes to drone AI its applied DPS will be abysmal. I agree with the posts suggesting a bigger damage bonus. The range/tracking bonus is pretty worthless because for dedicated sentry setups the domi has plenty of mid slots for omnis. Heavy drones can't apply DPS to anything that isn't webbed or stationary to begin with, so they don't benefit from the new bonus.

Why not give it a bonus to drone EWAR effects? Something like 10% to drone EWAR strength and 10% to drone optimal range per level. Hell, make it 15% while you're at it. With a little extra drone bay, that would give the domi back some of the versatility it's losing with the new changes. It would also be in line with the Armageddon changes.