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A stop against Corp Griefing
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#41 - 2013-05-01 09:22:02 UTC
Extrokold Thiesant wrote:
How about have a setting for the CEO to turn Awoxing on or off

That way corps that like it can keep it and corps that don't like it can remove it to be safer.

The same could also be done for Wars, have a setting that the CEO can turn on to allow war decs and you're allowed to declare war too, and a setting to turn it off.

Have it so that you're only allow to change the setting once every two weeks and it takes one day or more for the setting to take into effect.


You themepark carebears never learn do you?

EvE Online is a ruthless and competitive sandbox mmo-rpg, set in a dystopian universe. Things like Awoxing, Wardecs, Scaming, Ganking, Bumping, Ninja Looting and Corporation Theft are part of the hart and soul of EvE Online, it's all about player interaction and emergent gameplay, it's what makes the Butterfly Effect possible.

Now if you don't like this genre of games, don't play them and stick with kindergarten themepark mmo-rpg's, where you can be safe in your protective bubble.

The Tears Must Flow
Freikinstien
Taladi Federation
Wormageddon
#42 - 2013-05-01 21:16:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Freikinstien
Natazjah Zeranova wrote:
Freikinstien wrote:
Ok so I was running a corp for a little bit, everything going well and running smoothly. But when the corp went quite, someone came online, asked a corp member to help him move some stuff, and held his freighter for ransom. And apparently, half my members didn't even know that corp members could attack each other without CONCORD getting involved.
I feel that Corp Griefing is lame, and that normal rules should apply, even if your corp mates.
I even decided to get my main to stop running a corp, give it to my alt and create an external corp with only me in it. Thats how pathetic I feel it is, when your always exposing billions of isk of ship, to people that won't even have to lose their own ship to kill you.
People say that EVE is all about trust, and is something to earn. But I feel that you can "never" fully trust anyone. I feel that it would be a much funner game, if corps were safe and you don't have to worry about everyone that's in it.


hello little wimp
this is not wow were GM's hold your hand and cuddle you because you like to walk around in bear form!!!
this game is all about corp theft infiltration espionage
and war for materials

pretty cool eh?

the reason you want this button is so you can freely smack talk safely from station and show everyone the bird with out thinking what could happen because of one of your stupid actions
it is a sandbox allowing a godmode button for in corp kills and wardecs to go away is just nuts

want to know how to kill these thing happening to you grow a pair of brass balls learn to fight and do security checks and screen every new recruit even screen your trusted members regularly

Killboard

and check killboard for actions of the past an example here from me on this toon
yes i like to kill you from the inside out it is a guerilla tactic to break you from inside to get you out of my area or just for fun
it can have all kinds of reasons to do this

my part smack talking station tankers
cant hurt them the regular way as they by pass game mechanics i can do the same trick so who is the problem here what

was there first the egg or the chicken? PiratePiratePirate



You think I don't do security checks? Check peoples killboard?
I'll have you know that I do a lot of PVP, don't get me wrong it's great fun. But obviously your not even looking at my point of view. It's not just running a corp, it's being in any kind of corp. Griefers, still get into corps that require full API keys and check killboards, it's called making alts that have no background. I've experienced it more than enough now. And I see many people like the idea of corp mates having the ability to kill each other. Fair enough, maybe EVE isn't the game for me, as after my years of playing, I have now got bored of solo PVP, the game is not fun when you don't play with many people. You can never trust anyone unless you know them in real life, that's the real answer. And your crap about learning how to fight? That does not protect you from corp griefers! Nothing does! It's alright losing ships to people "outside" of your corp, it's fun in a way, but when you just get back stabbed all the time, it's not a good feeling. And all you do is blame it on the CEO, but every corp seems to leak Corp Griefers. And if EVE was structured for pure ganking, bullying, backstabbing, then why is their a place called high-sec? High-sec is for new players to grow into the game, low sec is for all the fun killing each other, that's how it should be (in my opinion)
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#43 - 2013-05-01 21:43:45 UTC
Freikinstien wrote:
And if EVE was structured for pure ganking, bullying, backstabbing, then why is their a place called high-sec? High-sec is for new players to grow into the game, low sec is for all the fun killing each other, that's how it should be (in my opinion) I understand if you disagree, but at the end of the day I really feel that my time in EVE has run it's course :(


Right there is the flaw in your logic. Hisec is for casual gamers who can't spend their precious hour or so in game each night manning a gate, and otherwise would be a drain on a dedicated corp. It gives you a margin of 'free' protection that otherwise you would have to earn. And life in nulsec is considerably safer than life under concord.

New players, if you've noticed, ARE protected in declared newbie systems and npc corps. The rest is fair game and equal footing.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#44 - 2013-05-01 22:37:58 UTC
Freikinstien wrote:
You can never trust anyone unless you know them in real life, that's the real answer. And your crap about learning how to fight? That does not protect you from corp griefers! Nothing does! It's alright losing ships to people "outside" of your corp, it's fun in a way, but when you just get back stabbed all the time, it's not a good feeling. And all you do is blame it on the CEO, but every corp seems to leak Corp Griefers. And if EVE was structured for pure ganking, bullying, backstabbing, then why is their a place called high-sec? High-sec is for new players to grow into the game, low sec is for all the fun killing each other, that's how it should be (in my opinion) I understand if you disagree, but at the end of the day I really feel that my time in EVE has run it's course :(


How do you trust people in Real Life?

The stranger on the street could attack you, rob you, kill you, or worse.

Even the friend you invite into your home could break/steal crap out of your home while you're not paying attention. They could tell your boss/gf/whomever lies about you (sabotaging you socially). Sure, there are some legal repercussions you can follow, but they generally won't repair the damage they can do, and they often don't result in any real punishment of the guy harming you.

Even your brother/parent/spouse/child could horrifically violate you and your stuff....

How do you deal with these risks in RL? You incrementally offer trust to people, you show them faith, and look for warning signs that they may be unfaithful. You essentially develop a trusting relationship, even though it could be violated at any time.

The same thing happens in EvE.

What your instead asking for, is some magical switch to force people to be more "trustworthy". Sorry, but a cold dark universe doesn't function very well like that. Social risk is a MAJOR factor in the Risk vs Reward paradigm of the EvE universe, and I'm sorry if you haven't found a means to account for that risk, but removing it from the game is NOT an appropriate solution!
Freikinstien
Taladi Federation
Wormageddon
#45 - 2013-05-02 15:14:46 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Freikinstien wrote:
You can never trust anyone unless you know them in real life, that's the real answer. And your crap about learning how to fight? That does not protect you from corp griefers! Nothing does! It's alright losing ships to people "outside" of your corp, it's fun in a way, but when you just get back stabbed all the time, it's not a good feeling. And all you do is blame it on the CEO, but every corp seems to leak Corp Griefers. And if EVE was structured for pure ganking, bullying, backstabbing, then why is their a place called high-sec? High-sec is for new players to grow into the game, low sec is for all the fun killing each other, that's how it should be (in my opinion) I understand if you disagree, but at the end of the day I really feel that my time in EVE has run it's course :(


How do you trust people in Real Life?

The stranger on the street could attack you, rob you, kill you, or worse.

Even the friend you invite into your home could break/steal crap out of your home while you're not paying attention. They could tell your boss/gf/whomever lies about you (sabotaging you socially). Sure, there are some legal repercussions you can follow, but they generally won't repair the damage they can do, and they often don't result in any real punishment of the guy harming you.

Even your brother/parent/spouse/child could horrifically violate you and your stuff....

How do you deal with these risks in RL? You incrementally offer trust to people, you show them faith, and look for warning signs that they may be unfaithful. You essentially develop a trusting relationship, even though it could be violated at any time.

The same thing happens in EvE.

What your instead asking for, is some magical switch to force people to be more "trustworthy". Sorry, but a cold dark universe doesn't function very well like that. Social risk is a MAJOR factor in the Risk vs Reward paradigm of the EvE universe, and I'm sorry if you haven't found a means to account for that risk, but removing it from the game is NOT an appropriate solution!


The same doesn't happen in EVE... A corp griefer comes, does what he wants and comes out without a scratch. In real life you would have the police up your arse :P I wouldn't care losing a ship, but I do care if it's lost because of nothing, and the offender has no hassle and comes away with a cash prize and that's it, maybe I should try corp grieifing if it's that much liked.
But anyways I give up, I was warned that the forums were full of trolls and people who just give negative thoughts. I don't even know why I posted this now, as that warning was clearly a good one.
o7
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#46 - 2013-05-02 15:39:04 UTC
Freikinstien wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Freikinstien wrote:
You can never trust anyone unless you know them in real life, that's the real answer. And your crap about learning how to fight? That does not protect you from corp griefers! Nothing does! It's alright losing ships to people "outside" of your corp, it's fun in a way, but when you just get back stabbed all the time, it's not a good feeling. And all you do is blame it on the CEO, but every corp seems to leak Corp Griefers. And if EVE was structured for pure ganking, bullying, backstabbing, then why is their a place called high-sec? High-sec is for new players to grow into the game, low sec is for all the fun killing each other, that's how it should be (in my opinion) I understand if you disagree, but at the end of the day I really feel that my time in EVE has run it's course :(


How do you trust people in Real Life?

The stranger on the street could attack you, rob you, kill you, or worse.

Even the friend you invite into your home could break/steal crap out of your home while you're not paying attention. They could tell your boss/gf/whomever lies about you (sabotaging you socially). Sure, there are some legal repercussions you can follow, but they generally won't repair the damage they can do, and they often don't result in any real punishment of the guy harming you.

Even your brother/parent/spouse/child could horrifically violate you and your stuff....

How do you deal with these risks in RL? You incrementally offer trust to people, you show them faith, and look for warning signs that they may be unfaithful. You essentially develop a trusting relationship, even though it could be violated at any time.

The same thing happens in EvE.

What your instead asking for, is some magical switch to force people to be more "trustworthy". Sorry, but a cold dark universe doesn't function very well like that. Social risk is a MAJOR factor in the Risk vs Reward paradigm of the EvE universe, and I'm sorry if you haven't found a means to account for that risk, but removing it from the game is NOT an appropriate solution!


The same doesn't happen in EVE... A corp griefer comes, does what he wants and comes out without a scratch. In real life you would have the police up your arse :P I wouldn't care losing a ship, but I do care if it's lost because of nothing, and the offender has no hassle and comes away with a cash prize and that's it, maybe I should try corp grieifing if it's that much liked.
But anyways I give up, I was warned that the forums were full of trolls and people who just give negative thoughts. I don't even know why I posted this now, as that warning was clearly a good one.
o7

You could make the consequences yourself. Haunt him, hunt him, bounty him and put out a contract on him. As long as you choose to rely on ccp to do the work for you, he has no repercussions.

Take responsibility for your own sense of justice.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#47 - 2013-05-02 15:45:22 UTC
Freikinstien wrote:
The same doesn't happen in EVE... A corp griefer comes, does what he wants and comes out without a scratch. In real life you would have the police up your arse :P I wouldn't care losing a ship, but I do care if it's lost because of nothing, and the offender has no hassle and comes away with a cash prize and that's it, maybe I should try corp grieifing if it's that much liked.
But anyways I give up, I was warned that the forums were full of trolls and people who just give negative thoughts. I don't even know why I posted this now, as that warning was clearly a good one.
o7


He only comes away without a scratch because you let him. There are plenty of mechanics to allow you revenge, it's up to you to make use of them. That has basically been the entire attitude in the responses so far: trusting players and allowing them into positions they can damage you is on YOU. How you react when something bad happens and how much the 'bad guy' gets punished is again on YOU.

That's the spirit of EVE, and suggesting you stick to it instead of asking for CCP to coddle you isn't trolling, it's reasonable, sensible advice.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#48 - 2013-05-02 15:52:22 UTC
There are severe rip between old people of eve and new players. One big difference in recruitment is the API key. Yes it makes a big deal. But why cannot the corp that actually recruit request this information in the game? Why it has to be outside the game? Couldn't you just ticket like "provide character bio and history" in the recruitment and the game would rather automatically include it? Maybe you could leave out information in the applied api information so scam was still possible but somehow that you could still see it missing if you were wise enough.

Anyway just my 2 pennies.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#49 - 2013-05-02 18:33:38 UTC
Freikinstien wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Freikinstien wrote:
You can never trust anyone unless you know them in real life, that's the real answer. And your crap about learning how to fight? That does not protect you from corp griefers! Nothing does! It's alright losing ships to people "outside" of your corp, it's fun in a way, but when you just get back stabbed all the time, it's not a good feeling. And all you do is blame it on the CEO, but every corp seems to leak Corp Griefers. And if EVE was structured for pure ganking, bullying, backstabbing, then why is their a place called high-sec? High-sec is for new players to grow into the game, low sec is for all the fun killing each other, that's how it should be (in my opinion) I understand if you disagree, but at the end of the day I really feel that my time in EVE has run it's course :(


How do you trust people in Real Life?

The stranger on the street could attack you, rob you, kill you, or worse.

Even the friend you invite into your home could break/steal crap out of your home while you're not paying attention. They could tell your boss/gf/whomever lies about you (sabotaging you socially). Sure, there are some legal repercussions you can follow, but they generally won't repair the damage they can do, and they often don't result in any real punishment of the guy harming you.

Even your brother/parent/spouse/child could horrifically violate you and your stuff....

How do you deal with these risks in RL? You incrementally offer trust to people, you show them faith, and look for warning signs that they may be unfaithful. You essentially develop a trusting relationship, even though it could be violated at any time.

The same thing happens in EvE.

What your instead asking for, is some magical switch to force people to be more "trustworthy". Sorry, but a cold dark universe doesn't function very well like that. Social risk is a MAJOR factor in the Risk vs Reward paradigm of the EvE universe, and I'm sorry if you haven't found a means to account for that risk, but removing it from the game is NOT an appropriate solution!


The same doesn't happen in EVE... A corp griefer comes, does what he wants and comes out without a scratch. In real life you would have the police up your arse :P I wouldn't care losing a ship, but I do care if it's lost because of nothing, and the offender has no hassle and comes away with a cash prize and that's it, maybe I should try corp grieifing if it's that much liked.
But anyways I give up, I was warned that the forums were full of trolls and people who just give negative thoughts. I don't even know why I posted this now, as that warning was clearly a good one.
o7


In real life you'd have the police up your arse??? Only if they commit a serious crime, but there are many "lesser crimes" the police will just shrug their shoulders and let slip by.
  • "Social crimes" --- These generally have no legal repercussions at all!! Who punished your best friend when he seduced your mom/sister/girlfriend/wife? Who punished your Prom date when she stood you up for the quarterback?
  • "Unproveable crimes" --- Remember when that school-bully kept getting away with screwing up your day (name calling, tripping you in the hall, taking your lunch money).
  • "General Grievances" --- Remember when you paid the mechanic to fix your car, yet did an incomplete job. Remember when you bought those 30k mile tires that blew out after 5k miles. Remember when you ordered that Medium Rare T-Bone steak, and it was given to you well done and cold.

    • Most of the time you are "wronged" or "betrayed" by people in real life, the police don't get involved. You use social means to get "justice": Write a terrible review of a restaurant, tell everyone your now-ex-girlfriend is a cheating ****, you get a bunch of friends together and beat the crap out that bully in some back-alley.

    And all those "social means" exist in EvE. Furthermore, since there are no really "terrible" crimes (you can't die, and you can always buy a new ship, make more isk, etc), there's no need for a criminal system that prosecutes people and puts them in jail years.

    In short, you have the means to "get justice".... utilize them. Mechanically preventing injustices from happening is not in the spirit of this game!
    Freya Kaundur
    Doomheim
    #50 - 2013-05-02 18:40:45 UTC
    i am just gonna say grow a pair. and roll with the punches this is eve. eve does a bad job of telling you this is eve and what can happen in eve. but i am not a fan of changing eve to be easier. eve would not be eve without the constant threat of your best friend stabbing you in the back and ruining everything. and remember its a game so 90% of people will do what they cant in realife if it is availible in a game. so treat everyone as a spy or deviant. but cherrish the ones you can truly trust.
    Theia Matova
    Dominance Theory
    #51 - 2013-05-02 18:46:20 UTC
    Ruze wrote:

    You could make the consequences yourself. Haunt him, hunt him, bounty him and put out a contract on him. As long as you choose to rely on ccp to do the work for you, he has no repercussions.

    Take responsibility for your own sense of justice.


    Ruze, bounties are really not an option. They are simply jokes to pirates. Its something that people gloat in eve. You simply make it worse by assigning a bounty.
    Kaarous Aldurald
    Black Hydra Consortium.
    #52 - 2013-05-02 18:48:43 UTC
    Freikinstien wrote:
    Ok so I was running a corp for a little bit, everything going well and running smoothly. But when the corp went quite, someone came online, asked a corp member to help him move some stuff, and held his freighter for ransom. And apparently, half my members didn't even know that corp members could attack each other without CONCORD getting involved.
    I feel that Corp Griefing is lame, and that normal rules should apply, even if your corp mates.
    I even decided to get my main to stop running a corp, give it to my alt and create an external corp with only me in it. Thats how pathetic I feel it is, when your always exposing billions of isk of ship, to people that won't even have to lose their own ship to kill you.
    People say that EVE is all about trust, and is something to earn. But I feel that you can "never" fully trust anyone. I feel that it would be a much funner game, if corps were safe and you don't have to worry about everyone that's in it.


    So... you want to take away one of the game's few methods to have group pvp training for new members, because you and your corp are too stupid to know the rules in the first place?

    You got what you deserved.

    Research prospective new members, and it's not too hard to find a potential awoxer.

    Total safety like the kind you are asking for (any kind besides not undocking, in fact) is very literally against the founding principles of the game.

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

    One of ours, ten of theirs.

    Best Meltdown Ever.
    Nariya Kentaya
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #53 - 2013-05-02 19:02:40 UTC
    All the whines i see for things like this, are for corps ran by a fairly new player, for fairly new players.

    corps like this are whats killing EVE by turning off new players, not AWOX'ing.

    a corp leader should have heavy background experience in EVE, and be prepared to take personal responsibility, unless he assigns an equally experienced and dedicated vet, to the well being of their new players, educating them about what to do when, and why, aswell as whats what. New players shouldn't run corps, because they have neither the experience or capability of defending themselves or protecting others.

    again i reiterate, the only corps ive ever seen get "plagued" by griefing, are ones ran by majority new players who themselves have only a faint grasp of the game. noobs should be encouraged to go out and join older, more established corps, (not necessarily null, but corps that have older players for them to learn about the game and what to do, then be allowed to go out and start their own after a year or two).

    i probably got offtrack with this post at some point, but ive been up for 53 hours writing papers before finals, so sue me.
    Ruze
    Next Stage Initiative
    #54 - 2013-05-02 19:43:05 UTC
    Theia Matova wrote:
    Ruze wrote:

    You could make the consequences yourself. Haunt him, hunt him, bounty him and put out a contract on him. As long as you choose to rely on ccp to do the work for you, he has no repercussions.

    Take responsibility for your own sense of justice.


    Ruze, bounties are really not an option. They are simply jokes to pirates. Its something that people gloat in eve. You simply make it worse by assigning a bounty.

    I'm not going to argue how they are broke, but I was simply listing options, good and bad.

    If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
    TheGunslinger42
    All Web Investigations
    #55 - 2013-05-03 10:58:29 UTC
    Nariya Kentaya wrote:
    All the whines i see for things like this, are for corps ran by a fairly new player, for fairly new players.

    corps like this are whats killing EVE by turning off new players, not AWOX'ing.

    a corp leader should have heavy background experience in EVE, and be prepared to take personal responsibility, unless he assigns an equally experienced and dedicated vet, to the well being of their new players, educating them about what to do when, and why, aswell as whats what. New players shouldn't run corps, because they have neither the experience or capability of defending themselves or protecting others.

    again i reiterate, the only corps ive ever seen get "plagued" by griefing, are ones ran by majority new players who themselves have only a faint grasp of the game. noobs should be encouraged to go out and join older, more established corps, (not necessarily null, but corps that have older players for them to learn about the game and what to do, then be allowed to go out and start their own after a year or two).

    i probably got offtrack with this post at some point, but ive been up for 53 hours writing papers before finals, so sue me.


    Yes, if anything turns off new players it's the carebears who completely misunderstand the game and try and herd newbros in the same awful directions. Newbros are cool, and if they get a good introduction to the game and good help, most of them love it and become dedicated long timers. If you treat them like wowbabbies and push them in that direction, they get frustrated and quit.
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