These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Null and Low Sec Ice Fields
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-05-02 16:48:02 UTC
Rhivre wrote:


There will be 2500 units per anom, they have calculated on 5 spawns a day, which gives 48 minutes to empty a belt, people with calculators and stuff about cycle times and yield have said this is 24 macks with orca boosts.

Low sec and null have approx 8* the amount of anoms as empire, moreso after the reductions

Info for my calculations are in here, so feel free to rip them apart *hides*
ICE!!



Is that all sec, or just high sec having 2500 units per anom?
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#22 - 2013-05-02 17:05:43 UTC
The info from Fozzie only related to highsec,

"1) The numbers will be out on sisi soon anyways, so I'll go ahead and let you know that the high sec anoms contain 2500 units of their racial isotope ice."

Next week is SiSi update (subject to CCP deciding that they like us, and updating it ofc), so I expect all those people who do lots more analysis than me will be out and about on SiSi draining anoms like crazy

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Sandrestal
Pakistani Taxi Drivers
#23 - 2013-05-02 17:22:53 UTC
celebro wrote:
Estimates given of around 45min for 30 miners in High sec to deplete the anom. So I would hoard the ice until the changes , I have switched to Ice mining entirely.


The ice belt in high sec I am mining has close to 140 miners working it. That means anoms will disappear in 8 minutes or less in this system. That means you won't even have time to get 3 or 4 cycles done. Perhaps CCP has not entirely thought this thru? If this is the case I guess there will be a lot less high sec ice miners as who will want to be bothered mining ice in high sec. Null may become the new ice product source but I wouldn't count on it as the null alliances will want to keep their own ice. So I can't help but see ice rising in price and as such I'm mining as much as I can now.
rofflesausage
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-05-02 17:30:09 UTC
Sandrestal wrote:

The ice belt in high sec I am mining has close to 140 miners working it. That means anoms will disappear in 8 minutes or less in this system. That means you won't even have time to get 3 or 4 cycles done. Perhaps CCP has not entirely thought this thru?


Perhaps they have and they've come to the conclusion that 140 miners, mining an unlimited resource in high sec is ridiculous. Hence the change.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#25 - 2013-05-02 18:05:58 UTC
Sandrestal wrote:
celebro wrote:
Estimates given of around 45min for 30 miners in High sec to deplete the anom. So I would hoard the ice until the changes , I have switched to Ice mining entirely.


The ice belt in high sec I am mining has close to 140 miners working it. That means anoms will disappear in 8 minutes or less in this system. That means you won't even have time to get 3 or 4 cycles done. Perhaps CCP has not entirely thought this thru? If this is the case I guess there will be a lot less high sec ice miners as who will want to be bothered mining ice in high sec. Null may become the new ice product source but I wouldn't count on it as the null alliances will want to keep their own ice. So I can't help but see ice rising in price and as such I'm mining as much as I can now.



There will be 92 anoms in highsec....if 140 miners want to sit in 1 system, instead of looking at the systems which currently have less than 20 people total in them, then that is up to them

That means the miners in the other systems will still get to sit all day sucking icecubes, while those 140 miners get a few cycles, then suck rocks until respawn

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Sandrestal
Pakistani Taxi Drivers
#26 - 2013-05-02 18:20:09 UTC
I won't argue either of your point. Just remember, ice products affect everything to some degree,
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-05-02 18:32:57 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
Sandrestal wrote:
celebro wrote:
Estimates given of around 45min for 30 miners in High sec to deplete the anom. So I would hoard the ice until the changes , I have switched to Ice mining entirely.


The ice belt in high sec I am mining has close to 140 miners working it. That means anoms will disappear in 8 minutes or less in this system. That means you won't even have time to get 3 or 4 cycles done. Perhaps CCP has not entirely thought this thru? If this is the case I guess there will be a lot less high sec ice miners as who will want to be bothered mining ice in high sec. Null may become the new ice product source but I wouldn't count on it as the null alliances will want to keep their own ice. So I can't help but see ice rising in price and as such I'm mining as much as I can now.



There will be 92 anoms in highsec....if 140 miners want to sit in 1 system, instead of looking at the systems which currently have less than 20 people total in them, then that is up to them

That means the miners in the other systems will still get to sit all day sucking icecubes, while those 140 miners get a few cycles, then suck rocks until respawn



I think the point is that it won't take 140 miners to quickly strip a system. If 24 max hulks, with max orca can strip an anom in 45 minutes, then move to another system in, say 15 minutes... and repeat, and another, and another.

24 miners, stripping and moving an anom an hour. 92/4 =23. So, hypothetically, 23 teams of 25 ships each could keep high sec stripped That is a total of 575 high sec ice miners.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#28 - 2013-05-02 18:42:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhivre
LHA Tarawa wrote:

I think the point is that it won't take 140 miners to quickly strip a system. If 24 max hulks, with max orca can strip an anom in 45 minutes, then move to another system in, say 15 minutes... and repeat, and another, and another.

24 miners, stripping and moving an anom an hour. 92/4 =23. So, hypothetically, 23 teams of 25 ships each could keep high sec stripped That is a total of 575 high sec ice miners.




Yes, and I factor that in in the 2nd option in the article I did. Where I assume that each miner can mine 3 anoms, and cycle round them...I figure in 4 hours, jumping between anoms in different systems, docking time for the orca etc etc, 3 anoms at 48 minutes each is reasonable

48 mins per anom + 15 mins travelling to next anom + 48 mins sucking + 15 minutes travel + 48 minutes.....now you are at just over 3 hours, and 30 mins from your original destination, so fly back just in time to grab a sammich before respawn, rinse and repeat

However, that would require having fitted fleets at locations, as I dont see hoards of miners jumping 2-3 jumps through lowsec to get to the pockets, or doing the 16 jumps across some regions to get to the ice anoms.

I think the idea solution is a spreading out of miners, but I suspect it is more likely that as with now, the anoms a few jumps apart will be heavily utilised, while the other ones will be having a few guys, maybe solo, sucking at ice for the majority of the day.

Miners are like everyone else, they dont care about supply, it is about isk/hr, so maybe sitting in ice for a bit, then hopping to ore., rinse and repeat is where they will end up

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Kaya Jarvis
Tech 3 Constructions
#29 - 2013-05-02 19:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaya Jarvis
I no this is a bit off this tack but did you add in the -50% to Activation time / duration from 500s to 250sQuestion

and can some work out Activation time / duration (all max skills) of Mackinaw with Orca of the new and old systemQuestion

I think the old system 135.76093( from EFT 2.17.1)Smile

{Mackinaw}
Ice Harvester Upgrade II
Ice Harvester Upgrade II
Ice Harvester II
Ice Harvester II
Medium Ice Harvester Accelerator I

{Orca}
Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization II

p.s. not my full fitCool
Sandrestal
Pakistani Taxi Drivers
#30 - 2013-05-02 19:11:47 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Rhivre wrote:
Sandrestal wrote:
celebro wrote:
Estimates given of around 45min for 30 miners in High sec to deplete the anom. So I would hoard the ice until the changes , I have switched to Ice mining entirely.


The ice belt in high sec I am mining has close to 140 miners working it. That means anoms will disappear in 8 minutes or less in this system. That means you won't even have time to get 3 or 4 cycles done. Perhaps CCP has not entirely thought this thru? If this is the case I guess there will be a lot less high sec ice miners as who will want to be bothered mining ice in high sec. Null may become the new ice product source but I wouldn't count on it as the null alliances will want to keep their own ice. So I can't help but see ice rising in price and as such I'm mining as much as I can now.



There will be 92 anoms in highsec....if 140 miners want to sit in 1 system, instead of looking at the systems which currently have less than 20 people total in them, then that is up to them

That means the miners in the other systems will still get to sit all day sucking icecubes, while those 140 miners get a few cycles, then suck rocks until respawn



I think the point is that it won't take 140 miners to quickly strip a system. If 24 max hulks, with max orca can strip an anom in 45 minutes, then move to another system in, say 15 minutes... and repeat, and another, and another.

24 miners, stripping and moving an anom an hour. 92/4 =23. So, hypothetically, 23 teams of 25 ships each could keep high sec stripped That is a total of 575 high sec ice miners.



You are forgetting human nature. I know it won't take 140 miners, rather there will be 140 miners in one system looking for the anoms. If that is the case then mining the anoms will not be very worth while. And don't forget about the doubling of the amount a ice harvester will take in. Hypotheticals are fine but we are talking about Eve after all
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-05-02 19:13:50 UTC
Rhivre wrote:

I think the idea solution is a spreading out of miners, but I suspect it is more likely that as with now, the anoms a few jumps apart will be heavily utilised, while the other ones will be having a few guys, maybe solo, sucking at ice for the majority of the day.

Miners are like everyone else, they dont care about supply, it is about isk/hr, so maybe sitting in ice for a bit, then hopping to ore., rinse and repeat is where they will end up


Meaning the ore belts near the ice systems will be mined out all the time too. Race for the ice, kill time emptying ore belts, repeat.. until there are no ore belts left either.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-05-02 19:25:01 UTC
It will be really interesting to see what happens to null ice. Currently, ice belts have 3 or 4 kinds of ice. Some give lots of heavy water for stuff like rorq boosts. Some give extra stront, for reinforced towers, triage carriers and siege dreads. Some give lots of liquid ozone, for jump bridge fuel and cyno lighting. And, of course, the racial ice for POS fuel and jump drive fuel.

Will all these types of ice be in the same anom? Will a null ice miner have to mine out all types, just to get a respawn of a certain type? If I need 10K racial for POS fuel, would I need to mine out 40K blocks of ice, even though I don't really want the ice that creates, say, lots of stront?


Too many unknowns.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-05-02 19:25:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
Edit: Point already covered.

It'll be curious to see, really, how things play out. Considering the way ice belts are going to respawn, and the amount of downtime between ice harvesting and stuff, what this really does to the price of isotopes. They are looking at the belts respawning at set intervals, aren't they? To control the amount of ice that respawns, but isn't the total ice available only going to provide 80% of the needs, thus, unless all the afk ice miners log in right after downtime, and spread out to all the systems, there isn't a hope in hell of them mining all the potential ice? Thus, the price is going to continue to rise, until it is worthwhile for 0.0 miners to mine. And that, is a hell of a big rise. But who the hell wants to pay 800m, or a billion a month, to fuel a large tower?
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2013-05-02 20:10:29 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Edit: Point already covered.

It'll be curious to see, really, how things play out. Considering the way ice belts are going to respawn, and the amount of downtime between ice harvesting and stuff, what this really does to the price of isotopes. They are looking at the belts respawning at set intervals, aren't they? To control the amount of ice that respawns, but isn't the total ice available only going to provide 80% of the needs, thus, unless all the afk ice miners log in right after downtime, and spread out to all the systems, there isn't a hope in hell of them mining all the potential ice? Thus, the price is going to continue to rise, until it is worthwhile for 0.0 miners to mine. And that, is a hell of a big rise. But who the hell wants to pay 800m, or a billion a month, to fuel a large tower?



The anom will respawn 4 hours after it is completed. So, no, there will not be a race right after down time. Each ice anom system will experience a race for ice evern 4.5 to 5 hours or so. It is expected they will then empty out that anom within half an hour to an hour, then wait another 4 hours for the anom to respawn.


To get max ice from high sec, every anom, in every ice system, would have to be mined out, 5 times per day.


But let's not forget, what CCP really wants is more low/null ice mining. The half cycle time, can REALLY increase the profitability of null ice mining, as long as null anoms aren't going to be as small as high sec, or loaded with lots of different types of ice that become a nuisance and inhibitor of respawn.

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#35 - 2013-05-02 20:23:13 UTC
Velicitia wrote:


gonna have to remember to name my velators "Hot drop o'clock" when I'm traveling through low Cool


Indeed... all it will take is a few cloakies to keep potential Low Sec ice miners wondering. ;)

Of course, the enterprising Low Seccer might just put a fleet out there as bait for his own SCap mousetrap... strange things happen in the deep of space when people get bored... Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Rual Storge
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-05-02 20:32:06 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
Going back and checking now, but I have checked with a few people about their calculations for the ice anoms post patch, and the values come back as between 92 and 99, so if there are 217 now, that would mean 50% of highsec ice is disappearing

Also, 917 as a total, and if 217 were the number, that would be closer to a 4:1 ratio between low/null and high, whereas Fozzie said it was approx 8


Currently the 4 racial high sec ice produce 8:1 Ratio, so minus 50% sounds about right
Previous page12