Skill Discussions

Lets try to answer you questions sincerely and honestly from the view point of the community shall we.

No CCP should not nerf the SP issue (ie make them shorter and or quicker) that would simply destroy the game mechanics. Besides this the average MMO today is in complete dumb down mode to make the game . . . more accessible . . . and all they ever end up doing is angering the old guards in the various communities and destroying the game.

The fact of the matter is that you can easily be an effective pilot in EVE much quicker than 1.5-2 years time. If you want to mine mine and you can easily be an a completely outfitted and effective tanked Hulk in 3-4 months with the right planning. Don't want to mine that's fine work into a frigate. It takes a few weeks to effectively fly a rifter fit for PvP as a speed tank and a tackle (which every fleet in EVE uses regularly.

While it is nice you brought some RL friends into the game with you the fact is that you need to also makes friends within EVE who you can fly with regularly. Join a corp or faction warfare and no matter what ship you can currently fly you will find a place to fit in and make a home. There are kinds of ships you can eventually work your way into, but yes it takes time and commitment. If you think it should be quick and easy to just come into EVE and fly something like a carrier in a few months than your in the wrong game. SP is also a way that forces a player to hopefully gain experience before they jump into the expensive ships so hopefully they won't just lose them. Keep in mind however that no matter the experience it is always possible to lose a ship in PvP.

I am no where near the ships I would love to fly and I have been playing off and on for quite awhile (taking breaks to deploy to such wonderful **** holes as Iraq periodically) but I love the game for what it is and still work towards my end goals. However, once to where I want to be I often change my mind and go towards something new.

Take a moment to think about the anger that would arise if you have been playing EVE for quite sometime and have worked to earn the SP, the ships, and the notoriety only to find out that CCP was now going to change EVE so that all of your work meant nothing and any noob could suddenly fly everything you worked hard towards in a few weeks or months. That would be a complete slap in the face to everyone, like you, who had worked hard and earned it.

Lets set a few things straight shall we. EVE is the only MMO who has continued to grow every year since its inception and that's quite a feat. It doesn't matter if they grew because of new players or existing players alts, money is money either way and facts are facts: those facts are that EVE is different from any other cookie cutter MMO out there and those who start playing and remain do so because they begin to love EVE for what EVE is, and that it is completely different. The game is not full of 8-12 year old WOW heads that play by button mashing and have the ability to deeply understand only that a game is pretty or easy enough for their mentality. EVE is however full of mature adults who can appreciate putting time and effort into accomplishing things in a game that are not possible in any other game (whether they are mature 15 year olds or 50 year olds). EVE players have the ability and the mentality to stay the course and eventually build something that means well . . . something, whether that is complete sov over a null system to a complete region that they are dedicated in defending and keeping.

The question I would have to ask you is what exactly is it that you are hoping to or dreaming of flying that is going to take you 1.5-2 years to learn. If it is something like a capital ship than yes it will take you awhile; to put it in a classic CCP montra its working as intended. Train levels in cybertech and buy implants to boost stats, they go a long way in reducing training time as skills are associated with a particular stat or stats. Trust me, even the lower end implants can reduce training times considerably.

There are way too many pages to read so I will reply to the OP and his initial comments. Firstly I have played on/off since 2006 but I have at least 2 friends who never stopped training in all that time and have more than double my SP. One of those friends STILL cannot fly a single Capitol Ship, the other has the training but only pulls out his Carrier. So after 7 years you would think that the Capitol Pilot wins Eve and the sub cap pilot is useless, making me and my SP even more useless right? Wrong, and here's why. SP means a whole lot of nothing (for the most part). The skills YOU gain while playing and tactics YOU employ may give you an edge over a player that's been here since day 1.

As an example, there used to be a T1 only Frigate PvP University near my home area some time ago. Their rules were simple, they took anyone and taught them how to PvP but you had to use a T1 Frigate with nothing better than T2 modules on it (no Faction/Deadspace/Officer). You had to listen to the FC (Fleet Commander) and you could leave at any time. I attended it for a short time not because I was new but because it seemed fun (my PvP alt). It was CRAZY fun and to watch a pack of T1 Frigates killing BATTLESHIPS was amazing!! The point is no matter what ship you fly, if you learn to fly it well, you WILL be effective.



Not true, you can be VERY effective in ships up to and including Battleships in < 1yr. You can even get into Incursions with a BS in just over 1 month (not wise but there are fleets that take in newer players this way to teach them). You can be EXTREMELY effective in ANY Frigate sized ship (there are sooo many choices) in less than 3 months. Most newer players completely over look Frigate sized hulls but I'm here to tell you they can be VERY deadly.



I also played Wow for almost 5 years (sorry Eve peeps, don't hate me) and this is EXACTLY what you have to do. To be fair, WoW has a LOT higher "grind" than Eve does. You literally CANNOT compete with ANY level 90 if you are level 89 or less. Even if that level 90 has only been 90 for a month, the stats/abilities are skewed soo horribly against anything not max level. In Eve a 2-6 month old toon can and do on a regular basis destroy ships/pods of players who have been around for YEARS. It's all about timing/tactics and just like any other MMO, who has the most on their side.



They're not being taken away, the training is actually shorter than before for a single race's BC. Since it takes longer to train for additional Races, this is not a nerf/kick in the bawlz to anyone with any amount of SP. Trust me, most new players seem to think they just have to get into a Battleship as soon as possible because that's the "end game" of Eve and they can't do anything of any value without said BS. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Hell I'd wager real money that there are players with 50+ mil SP that can't even SIT in a single BS due to being Trade/Mining/Industrial/Builder/etc types. I know a guy in game who spent nearly 2 years just maxing out everything for Frigates, and all types of Frigates cause he loved flying them so much and was soo effective in them.



Don't even insult the Eve community with this comment until you have played WoW and dealt with the REAL money pirates of MMO's. Blizzard charges for every damn thing in that game. CCP charges for very little and you can even play the game for free with a little bit of time invested. The long SP ques are to keep older players from capping out. Even still some must be close by now.

You're upset because you can't keep on spending ISK/ships (in armed conflict) without having proper income
What do you do in Real Life? Are you a kid/adolescent leeching of your parents or somebody leeching of social welfare?

HTFU. Get your income side in order before going on spending streak!
You could try variants which have little risk of losses, like mining or mission running. Again don't go immediately for the top, but start with lvl 2/3. You might actually learn something, like running them without losing ships and developing experience which enable you to minimize losses when you go FW or on corp roam.

This is terrible. Do not say this as if it were a good thing.


You're never going to get space rich running 4s, ever.


50 mill SP, 2 year old character that needs to liquidate almost everything for a Carrier (roughly 2 bill fully fit)?

You're doing Eve wrong.

Uh... why not?



I do! I did a bunch of things early on for money (and it was harder, back in 2005 - there were fewer options, and fewer instructional resources available. FW didn't exist, so farming that was right out).

After the tutorial, I jumped into level 1 missions. They were okay. Did that for a day or two. Started tinkering with the market and noticed that, if I had a big enough ship, I could buy some stuff in one place, fly it somewhere else, and sell it for more money, so I took a few hours and trained up for a bestower. Did that for a little bit, but man was it painful flying that pig 15 km from warpin to the gate every jump.

Trained for a cruiser and bought an omen. Was pretty damn unimpressed with it. Took my bestower and slapped a mining laser on it, went and shot at kernite for a bit. Decided that was too slow, packed some GSCs into my bestower, anchored them in the belt, put some mining lasers on my omen, and did it that way.

That lasted for a day or two before I decided mining just wasn't going to work for me. Traded in my Omen for a Maller after I made it to cruiser 3 because surely more expensive means more-better, right?!?

Around here I started in on level 2 missions. Didn't take long before I decided I didn't care for them. Went exploring (and by this I mean, "flew from system to system to see what was out there", not Exploration with probes) and came across a "Rogue Drone Asteroid Infestation". Hmmm. Went on in, killed some drones, found some loot can, got a shadow serpentis kinetic armor hardener out of it - whoa, what's that? To the forums! What's this thing worth?

I forget how much it was - 20 million maybe - but it was enough that I was, from my perspective, basically SPACERICH! I sold it via the Escrow system and reveled in my newfound wealth before I decided to go find another one of those things because I needed to be even more space-rich (and, to this day, I have not seen another faction drop from a RDAI plex). Decided I needed a way to farm them faster - those medium lasers were bull **** for shooting drones. Refit my trusty maller with small lasers and went back to work. Still didn't like it much, which was when I decided that, hey, these things like to rush in and orbit me at point blank range, so maybe what I really need is...

...smartbombs. Lots and lots of smartbombs. Smartbombs, and cap rechargers, yes, that's the ticket.

Surprisingly, this adventure did not end in CONCORDOKKEN, but I inevitably got frustrated with the lack of good loot (and downtime), so I ventured out to look for more and different complexes. I wandered into low-sec at some point and, while tinkering with d-scan, saw a "True sansha somethingorother" (once upon a time, rats showed on d-scan). So, I flew around looking for this thing and eventually found it and what the hell is a low-grade slave epsilon??? Oh man, and here I thought I was spacerich before!

And so on and so forth. At some point I moved to Gammel, which had a mulzatah monastery (blood 4/10) and another one right next door in uh... Anka? I think it was Anka. Wait, no... Sosala, I think. Anyway, there were some sansha 3/10 not far away, too. There were some Russian miners who lived there and happened to jetcan mine, so I pilfered their haul with my bestower and was delighted with the result (free money + enraged Russian miners yelling in local).

I roll my eyes whenever I hear a new player complaining that they can't do anything. That's not because I don't remember what it was like to be a newb. It's because I DO remember what it was like to be a newb.

Your in FW! Capture a plex and get 10k LP.... which is approximately 10m isk! You also get LP for every opponent you kill, and you can collect tags from NPC rats you must kill in enemy plexes, too (some of which are worth 1m a piece). Finally, don't get me started on FW mission, which are also a major source of income to anyone in a SB. In short, if you can't make isk in FW, you're just not trying to. Now, I understand you can spend isk wildly, and if you'll have the tendency to lose more ships as you learn the ropes, so be frugal while you learn. I just don't believe you can't "earn isk yourself" in FW.

And the scanner is to help you scout while in system. It helps you locate ships in space, which is very useful for avoiding enemies and finding targets. I'll admit that using the dscanner in lowsec, with more POS trash and ships in general, is more difficult because of the amount of stuff on scan can be overwhelming, but learning to set appropriate scan ranges, overview filters, and when/where to narrow the scan angle allows you to use the dscanner to get very useful intel.

I love the SP - i think the SP makes EVE a little more special than other games.
Simply because of how you 'train' forwards your goal or what you want to fly.
1. You train your skills to have access to the module, the ship or the actions you want to make.
2. You train yourself how to fly your ship, your strategies, e.t.c.
I mean you can't master any one else imo, you can master yourself with your skills about how to do things your way.


I mean, the game is a little intern i would say, and if you dont like the gameplay or the actions, just take a break and think over or start another game. I Mean it's bullshit you have to train 1 year or more to be a "decent" player, aslong as you think you are good with what your doing thats what matters in my honest opinion.

Whats the big problem about beeing new?

Within 1-2 month u can fly perfect t2 frigate and u can compete with 100mil + SP chars..

Ofcoarse many noobs wanna fly big ships.. Well thats not gonna work. First learn to fly in the small ships, u can always go to bigger ships later on. Also in beginning u wont have the isk to buy a big ship.. Always remember dont fly something u cant afford to lose.

Also dont waste any SP into big ships when ur noob, spent all ur SP into one single t2 frig and pewpew.. Pretty easy bro ^^

Yeah not understanding your complaints. I have 12 accounts. Trained all them up to do what i want with each one. I have a carrier account for each race(plus some extra) a Super capable pilot(too lazy to commit to coffin yet) 4 mining accounts a few freighter accounts and some odds and ends stuff.


My newest account is less then 4 months old and already runs level 3 missions that I grinded the standings for within a week.(Train Connections to 3. profit)

Eve is complicated. I use multiple income streams to plex all of my accounts and still pvp. I played this game for a month before i decided to sub 2 more accounts. Yes you need alts, not to play properly, but to expiriance as much as possible. I have been playing for 3 years nowish. I can fly both armor and shield tank have t2 large lasers and hybrids t2 missile skills(all but cruise) Can fly all races Battleships and maruaders and Black ops for amarr. I have perfect Jump drive skills can fly amarr dreads and carrier with rep and drone skills.

Can fly 2 races T3 cruisers, Recons, HACs, Hictors, Logis

Can fly 3 races T2 Frigates EAF, Ceptors, SB/Cov Ops, AF

So in double the time to play this game as you say i have maxed out skills to fly about half the ships in the game.

Capital skills, BS 5 the large guns to 5, jump skills, and the t2 BS ships account for most of that extra year or so.

Most people consider this to be end game type content.

So tell me how you need 1.5 years just to have fun?

I killed my first ship less then 2 weeks into the game. Was during hulkageddon and we suicide ganked some hulks. Decided from there i was going to pvp.

So, say you had a character with max skillpoints in everything. Your big giant awesome ship is still limited by game mechanics. You can still die to a pack of rifters.

Then you and people like you will come here to the forums and whine and complain about how broken the game is, and us "elitists jerks" will only hope that ccp doesn't cave in and become blinded by dollar signs.

I am telling you, and people like you, that SKILLPOINTS AREN'T A PROBLEM HERE.

Stop thinking that we are being elitist jerks for trying to steer this game away from the mainstream attitude of instant gratification and everyone wins even if you lost.

I don't want the skillpoints to change, i don't want the mechanics to change, i think those things are fine. What i want to have changed is the attitude that MMO's must be able to be played solo with ease.

If you think the game is too hard for new players, then help them! Hang out in rookie chat and give advice and explain things. Start a corp dedicated to teaching new players how the game works. And STOP telling yourself that you or someone else are unable to play the game because X.