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Dev Blog: WantToTrade: Tags for Security Status

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Zircon Dasher
#41 - 2013-05-02 15:39:53 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Two step wrote:
How is it possible that someone so awesome as CCP Masterplan has so few likes? You people...


Why would I give likes to people who appear to make raising sec status slower or more of a pita?Straight


Um, did you even read the blog? How do you get slower out of that?



You did read the entire blog right? Not just the part about the tags?

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#42 - 2013-05-02 15:40:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Sugar Kyle wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Two step wrote:
How is it possible that someone so awesome as CCP Masterplan has so few likes? You people...


Why would I give likes to people who appear to make raising sec status slower or more of a pita?Straight


Um, did you even read the blog? How do you get slower out of that?



Removing chain ratting will slow down sec gain unless the buffs to sec gains on that rats is dramatic.

The buff is from the new tags you will get now and then.
Edit: Another buff for those that gank and try and keep anot too low sec status: L4 missions. Right now they will give 1 or 2 boosts to sec status per mission, due to the 20 minute wait. But with the new 5 minute tick you will get 6 or more boosts per mission. The result is you could do one L4 mission, then one gank, and repeat. The mission returns sufficient sec status and ISK to cover your losses.

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Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#43 - 2013-05-02 15:45:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Vincent Athena wrote:
The buff is from the new tags you will get now and then.


Tags drop every time you find a rat, it is not chance-based.

"Once you've found one of the new pirates and killed it, you should go and check the wreck. In addition to some random loot, each NPC will always drop one tag."

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Zircon Dasher
#44 - 2013-05-02 15:46:00 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
The buff is from the new tags you will get now and then.


Only if you raise sec status in low and then haul the crap to an office.....so longer (not doing it in lowsec) or more of a pita (assuming you are not a root vegetable who likes hauling).

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#45 - 2013-05-02 15:46:24 UTC
Aye. But for those that want to rat up their sec they are looking to receive a slight Nerf in comparison to what they can do now with chair. Ratting.

Personally I haven't made it past shooting one rat before I decide -9 something isn't so bad in a while.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.
Zircon Dasher
#46 - 2013-05-02 15:47:06 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
The buff is from the new tags you will get now and then.


Tags drop every time you find a rat, it is not chance-based.

"Once you've found one of the new pirates and killed it, you should go and check the wreck. In addition to some random loot, each NPC will always drop one tag."


I think he means the rat spawn not the tag.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#47 - 2013-05-02 15:48:22 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
So to provide an alternate method of bringing sec status up you are introducing tags and then nerfing the ability to raise sec status the old way? I could get more than 3 tics in the pipeline every 15 min with the previous system so, in effect, actually ratting sec up will now be slower unless you increase the amount of sec gained with each kill fairly significantly. Was the idea that by making ratting up sec even more painful you will ensure that people will actually buy the tags or are all the revisions to sec gain going positive?


3 ticks every 15 minutes is roughly the same as 1 tick every 5 minutes. You'll be fine, and you won't have to jump around quite so much.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#48 - 2013-05-02 15:50:15 UTC
Sheena Tzash wrote:
Vladimir Tinakin wrote:

You don't lose sec status for killing corpmates. So unless they were on a ganking binge and decided to switch things up with a corp infiltration, this doesn't apply.


I didn't say anything about killing corp mates, but someone could go out and cause enough trouble elsewhere to pick up some unwanted attention.

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

...which sounds totally awesome. WHY DO YOU HATE FUN? Twisted


I don't hate fun - I just don't want to see small new corps under threat from players infiltrating corps to cause enough trouble to get decs.

At the end of the day you wouldn't allow a repeat offender into your company or organisation without some careful consideration and if the game / system is hiding this 'rap sheet' then it makes it difficult for people to make an educated judgement of character.


'cause enough trouble' can already be done, in that respect nothing changes. All this new feature does is give people an alternative way to grind the sec status up.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#49 - 2013-05-02 15:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Sugar Kyle wrote:
Aye. But for those that want to rat up their sec they are looking to receive a slight Nerf in comparison to what they can do now with chair. Ratting.

Personally I haven't made it past shooting one rat before I decide -9 something isn't so bad in a while.


We raised this exact same question when discussing this internally. It is my understanding that ratting in lowsec, collecting tags, and turning them in will be comparable to the sec gain that can be obtained by currently chain-ratting in 0.0 space, simply moved into lowsec. So its actually a buff for those that used to only chain-rat for sec in lowsec, and its a buff above 0.0 chain-ratting if you factor in extra payment for tags into the question. Also, the bounty from the rats offsets the cost of turning in the tags. Unless I'm grossly mistaken here, this is not a step backwards for sec raising as an activity in any way, this is something the CSM was adamant about while this was being hammered out.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#50 - 2013-05-02 15:50:44 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
you won't have to jump around quite so much.



Nerfing piracy by catering to lazy?

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#51 - 2013-05-02 15:50:46 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
The buff is from the new tags you will get now and then.


Tags drop every time you find a rat, it is not chance-based.

"Once you've found one of the new pirates and killed it, you should go and check the wreck. In addition to some random loot, each NPC will always drop one tag."

Yes, but you will not find the right kind of rat every time. Hence "now and then".

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Vladimir Tinakin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2013-05-02 15:51:28 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
So to provide an alternate method of bringing sec status up you are introducing tags and then nerfing the ability to raise sec status the old way? I could get more than 3 tics in the pipeline every 15 min with the previous system so, in effect, actually ratting sec up will now be slower unless you increase the amount of sec gained with each kill fairly significantly. Was the idea that by making ratting up sec even more painful you will ensure that people will actually buy the tags or are all the revisions to sec gain going positive?


3 ticks every 15 minutes is roughly the same as 1 tick every 5 minutes. You'll be fine, and you won't have to jump around quite so much.



Its a Sanctum buff. Kinda.

Sky's not falling, but I'll miss the 'gram tours.
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-05-02 15:52:10 UTC
Zyrbalax III wrote:
So... where's going to be the best place to sell these tags? Jita or another high-sec trade hub (which might be problematic for the people most likely to want to purchase them)? Or at the lowsec stations where you can trade them in?

As someone who enjoys the odd spot of lowsec ratting, I'm looking forward to this feature!


I think both will have diferant customers. Soem will sell in jita for gankers who will love to bounce between -2 and 0.0, and allot will sell in low sec for pirates that want to go from -10 to -2

Sugar Kyle wrote:
Now to see the spawn rate. I'm quite hopeful about it. I do hope the tags to get closer to zero are fairly common. It would be a good way for newer players to keep above -5 till they are more situated as well as helping those who so fear sec loss a bit more incentive to taste the sweet nectar of explosions.


I disagree, I hope the Tags closer to 0.0 are harder to get because those are the ones gankers will want the most, not that there is anythign wrong with ganking, But im bettign the -10 ones will be easy to find because its least important.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#54 - 2013-05-02 15:55:21 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
you won't have to jump around quite so much.



Nerfing piracy by catering to lazy?


Yet another question we were sure to raise internally while this was being discussed - and statistically, this movement was not creating the conflict and killmails that you would expect, (as it was often done in things like stealth bombers) so I am satisfied that this change is not a nerf to piracy at the end of the day. In fact, concentrating the activity in lowsec instead of spreading it between low and 0.0 space, combined with the chokepoints created by the tag turn-ins, actually serves as a buff to piracy in my opinion.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Sheena Tzash
Doomheim
#55 - 2013-05-02 15:55:27 UTC
Sable Moran wrote:
'cause enough trouble' can already be done, in that respect nothing changes. All this new feature does is give people an alternative way to grind the sec status up.


That is not in question.

What is in question is for corps / fleets / players to identify the potential trouble makers due to a history of low sec status - otherwise they have the ability to play as 'wolves in sheeps clothing' with a nice and neutral appearing sec status.

As for the grinding element; I think its besides the point - I suspect that most people who want go go from -10 to 0 will simply wait long enough for the market to become flooded by these tags, buy them up and pay CONCORD to reset them back to zero.
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#56 - 2013-05-02 15:55:51 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Two step wrote:
How is it possible that someone so awesome as CCP Masterplan has so few likes? You people...


Why would I give likes to people who appear to make raising sec status slower or more of a pita?Straight


Um, did you even read the blog? How do you get slower out of that?



Removing chain ratting will slow down sec gain unless the buffs to sec gains on that rats is dramatic.

Removing chain ratting will increase sec gain if you are consistently making less than 3 kills in 3 different systems every 15 minutes
Removing chain ratting will slow down sec gain if you are consistently making more than 3 kills in 3 different systems every 15 minutes

Based on the stats we have, the number of people in the former group is significantly larger than the number in the second group, and overall this won't be a net nerf to the amount of security status gains.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#57 - 2013-05-02 15:56:39 UTC
Depends on if who is looking g at the problem. The sec gain gets harder the higher you are but that murky area is the one with the most occupants with the greatest needs. We all are going to see the best or most desirable area in different spots. Prob the middle will be the most rate in the end as a random unexpected bottleneck.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2013-05-02 15:57:09 UTC
Sheena Tzash wrote:

What is in question is for corps / fleets / players to identify the potential trouble makers due to a history of low sec status - otherwise they have the ability to play as 'wolves in sheeps clothing' with a nice and neutral appearing sec status..

~sucks to be you, terror forever~

they always had this ability it is now just less eye-stabbing to use
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#59 - 2013-05-02 15:57:40 UTC
As players can sell these they will all tend to settle at some market driven price. Any predictions? 1 million, 10, 100, 1 billion each? How much would you pay?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Zircon Dasher
#60 - 2013-05-02 15:58:58 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
So to provide an alternate method of bringing sec status up you are introducing tags and then nerfing the ability to raise sec status the old way? I could get more than 3 tics in the pipeline every 15 min with the previous system so, in effect, actually ratting sec up will now be slower unless you increase the amount of sec gained with each kill fairly significantly. Was the idea that by making ratting up sec even more painful you will ensure that people will actually buy the tags or are all the revisions to sec gain going positive?


3 ticks every 15 minutes is roughly the same as 1 tick every 5 minutes. You'll be fine, and you won't have to jump around quite so much.



Maybe bold-italic-underline will help.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.