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Need help with Navy Scorp fitting

Author
Kristoffon Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-05-02 01:28:05 UTC
Hello

I have just challenged a person to a duel where I would fight his Navy Scorp in a T1 battlecruiser, you can see that here.

I have read CCP Spitfire's advice on posting on this forum therefore I'm following his advice.

"State what you want a set-up for."

Dueling. I would not be actually flying it, but I want input on how to fit this ship so I can study it and fight it properly.

"If possible, include generally how many skill points you have and what kind of equipment you can use. "

Intel reveals my would-be foe has had no kills or losses on his eve carrer whatsoever therefore we would expect a pretty poor fit. His bosom-buddy fought me in a hurricane with split weapons, both shield and armor tank while armor had buffer and rep, warp stab, cap rig, so basically I'm looking for the kitchen sink.

Having lost my abilities to come up with fail fits like these quite a while ago and not having had the luck of having one such Navy Scorp on my own killboards I therefore come ask of the more experienced fighters here to look over your killboards for any such suitable fittings you might have killed on your career and to please post them here.

Thank you.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-05-02 02:58:05 UTC
how to beat a navy scorp?

It's going to be using torps so it can't hit anything small. To be honest I would just fit an enyo cap stable with a repper and AB. Scram him, web+kill all drones while orbiting at max velocity then turn guns on him and go afk for half an hour.

If you HAD to do this in a T1 battlecruiser then you're going to need to be able to rep his DPS since you can't win a DPS war with a navy battleship. For this you will have 1 option: active shield using ASBs.

For this I would probably choose blaster ferox, HAM drake or cyclone.

Cyclone: 596 DPS with flight of hammerheads, tanks 866 DPS while cap charges last. Fastest at 575m/s and lowest sig. Probably the best ship for the job. Fit requires 4% pg implant or you go without the NOS.

HAM drake will only be able to shoot scourge, will bring about 700 dps including 5 hobs. Will have to be dual Large ASB tanked as it cannot fit a X-L. Large-ish sig and slowest ship. Will be receving the most damage but it can also tank the most at 903 dps.

Blaster ferox will, of course, be shooting null to avoid being in web range. This will be about 550 dps with a flight of hobs. Same sig as drake but slightly faster (about 70m/s).

As a wildcard you could in fact use an ASB myrmidon to try and kill it as fast as you can: 822 DPS with 4 ogres and tanks 667 DPS. Requires 2% cpu implant.

All of this may go to waste if he just fits a target painter though. Navy scorp can do in excess of 1k DPS with good skills and if he can apply that to you (by use of target painters) there's no way for you to win really.

And if in fact he is just a complete noob using cruise missiles and active tanking for mission running: any close range brawling ship capable of using an XL ASB such as those I listed above or even a talos.
Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2013-05-02 05:48:34 UTC
If his fit is as fail as you're expecting, anything will work. I'd go with a speed tanked (AB) Cruiser or Frig with a small sig, decent dps and some kind of rep for safety.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2013-05-02 06:09:51 UTC
Might want to try a fast ECM ship fit. Lock time on BS is kinda high and with the right ship, he won't really ever hold a lock long enough to DPS you.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#5 - 2013-05-02 07:08:09 UTC
Why assume a "full-******" fail-fit (with lasers and hull reps)?

If the pilot lacks PvP experience and has an incomplete understanding of the game mechanics and systems related to it that's one thing but...
Presuming a vaguely sensible set-up will surely provide more useful data for your preparations?

I might well presume cruise missiles rather than torps for example, perhaps a full rack shield-tank with no EWar or tackle (a PvE focused player might well have far better skills for cruise than torps and their experience in missions is likely to make them distrust both the short range and damage application of torpedos, they may not have any Propulsion Jamming skill and they may not yet have realised that a prop mod has huge value against Rachen Mysuna...)
Maybe they won't think of ASBs and will spend a couple of mids and lows on cap mods to try to get close to cap stable or maybe they'll go for a relatively inappropriate hardener set-up or a Rattlesnake style passive tank. Or maybe they'll run with a very powerful loot-pinata set-up with deadspace invulns or a Liang Raven style fit with a cargo expander.

I would probably anticipate a fairly heavily overtanked set-up, probably with fairly low but reasonably easily applied damage and minimal utility.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-05-02 07:21:57 UTC
I'm almost tempted to suggest a prophesy with neuts and, for the lulz exclusively, defenders.

The difficulty you'll have is if he gets sound advice and fits to kill a T1 BC...then you're in the sh*t, make no mistake.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-05-02 11:27:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
the way I see it, you have several problems:
1. you do not know whether or not he will failfit his ship. he just might pull a homer and fit something you did not expect.
2. he might fit a very heavy cap stable tank, so you need to be able to bring big dps
3. depending on his setup, he may bring solid applied dps (500-600ish) and has much larger buffer than you.

given the circumstances, i would propose something creative like a NOS XLSB cyclone. with rage HAMS, it may have enough gank to break him while you feed off his cap to run the tank. also, since you already have the mobility advantage, an AB should clearly win out against a MWD.

edit: this is how the fit could look:

[Cyclone]

[High Slots]
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Inferno Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Inferno Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Inferno Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Inferno Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Inferno Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Medium 'Knave' Energy Drain
Medium 'Knave' Energy Drain

[Med Slots]
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Fleeting Warp Disruptor I

[Low Slots]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
Internal Force Field Array I

[Rigs]
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters II

[Drones]
Hobgoblin II x 5
Hornet EC-300 x 5

alternatively, a fit with an ASB and neuts might also work:
[Cyclone]

[High Slots]
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Inferno Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Inferno Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Inferno Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Inferno Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Inferno Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

[Med Slots]
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster
Fleeting Warp Disruptor I

[Low Slots]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II
Internal Force Field Array I

[Rigs]
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

[Drones]
Hobgoblin II x 5
Hornet EC-300 x 5

I should buy an Ishtar.

Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#8 - 2013-05-02 12:59:57 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
the way I see it, you have several problems:
1. you do not know whether or not he will failfit his ship. he just might pull a homer and fit something you did not expect.
2. he might fit a very heavy cap stable tank, so you need to be able to bring big dps
3. depending on his setup, he may bring solid applied dps (500-600ish) and has much larger buffer than you.

I'd add a potential fourth (not yet a problem but might be)

He might spot this very thread and farm it for ideas.

On the other hand, providing he's not an alt built for trolling purposes*, "the PvP shakes" and a simple unfamiliarity with PvP on the target's part are likely to be the OPs greatest allies (it's all very well talking about using a cap booster to burst while keeping your cap low (as a counter to Nos) but a very different thing to actually do it, consistently, in a pressure situation).

Any T1 BC the OP might choose is probably going to want some form of pre-damage mitigation - be it sig and speed (as in the case of the cyclone), range or more actively, in the form of jamming...etc. I would therefore suggest that the SNI should probably dedicate at least one mid to ECCM: Gravimetric (T2 or best named depending on skills).

If he fits Torps then he's probably not thought about the possibilities of the Tier 3s (Attack BCs), Rail Nagas, Tach Oracles...etc which might be capable of wearing him down from outside his range (I think it's possible to squeeze an MJD on a couple of those). These might not work well with PvP pilots but they could well fit with the perceptions of a duel held by a PvE-centric player...


*I believe it was one of Garmon's videos which placed his alt (in a cleverly fit Hyperion) in a lowsec belt, screaming for help in local in the most annoyingly newb-ish style while quickly dispatching all of the pirates who warped in to get on the killmail...
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-05-02 13:26:01 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
the way I see it, you have several problems:
1. you do not know whether or not he will failfit his ship. he just might pull a homer and fit something you did not expect.
2. he might fit a very heavy cap stable tank, so you need to be able to bring big dps
3. depending on his setup, he may bring solid applied dps (500-600ish) and has much larger buffer than you.

I'd add a potential fourth (not yet a problem but might be)

He might spot this very thread and farm it for ideas.

On the other hand, providing he's not an alt built for trolling purposes*, "the PvP shakes" and a simple unfamiliarity with PvP on the target's part are likely to be the OPs greatest allies (it's all very well talking about using a cap booster to burst while keeping your cap low (as a counter to Nos) but a very different thing to actually do it, consistently, in a pressure situation).

Any T1 BC the OP might choose is probably going to want some form of pre-damage mitigation - be it sig and speed (as in the case of the cyclone), range or more actively, in the form of jamming...etc. I would therefore suggest that the SNI should probably dedicate at least one mid to ECCM: Gravimetric (T2 or best named depending on skills).

If he fits Torps then he's probably not thought about the possibilities of the Tier 3s (Attack BCs), Rail Nagas, Tach Oracles...etc which might be capable of wearing him down from outside his range (I think it's possible to squeeze an MJD on a couple of those). These might not work well with PvP pilots but they could well fit with the perceptions of a duel held by a PvE-centric player...


*I believe it was one of Garmon's videos which placed his alt (in a cleverly fit Hyperion) in a lowsec belt, screaming for help in local in the most annoyingly newb-ish style while quickly dispatching all of the pirates who warped in to get on the killmail...


1. Meta4 eccm modules are in every way superior to tech2
2. If he fights from range, there's nothing stopping the SNI from warping off, provided there hasn't been some kind of honour agreement of no warping but I would hazard a guess at sniping invalidating that.
3. MJD is battleship only
Ginger Barbarella
#10 - 2013-05-02 13:45:15 UTC
Loki for OGB boosting, neutral for repping. Nuff said. Pirate

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Muad 'dib
Death by Design.
#11 - 2013-05-02 13:49:22 UTC
blap talos :D

you would be amazed what that overheated dps can do.

more sensible would be a myrm with a few nuets and guns, heavy tank etc

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-05-02 15:02:11 UTC
another approach would be to make sure you cannot lose and then troll your opponent until he logs off:

[Drake, Wild Honeybadger]

[High Slots]
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Small Nosferatu II

[Med Slots]
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

[Low Slots]
Power Diagnostic System II
Shield Power Relay II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

[Rigs]
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II

[Drones]
Hornet EC-300 x 5



between the high resists, overstable cap, the stupid passive regen and the ECM drones, this fit is almost impossible to break for a navy scorp. he might get lucky if he uses torps and the ECM drones fail for a long time but my guess would be that he runs out of ammo before your tank breaks. add +5 shield capacity and recharge implants for max trollage.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Kristoffon Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-05-02 16:50:12 UTC
Why are people giving me BC fits when I asked for Scorp fits?
Kasutra
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2013-05-02 16:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Kasutra
Daniel Plain wrote:
2. he might fit a very heavy cap stable tank, so you need to be able to bring big dps

That'd just be hammering at his strongest point.

Bring neuts!

Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:
Why are people giving me BC fits when I asked for Scorp fits?

Huh.

Probably due to this line:
Quote:
I have just challenged a person to a duel where I would fight his Navy Scorp in a T1 battlecruiser
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-05-02 16:56:19 UTC
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:
Why are people giving me BC fits when I asked for Scorp fits?


8 salvagers 8 shield rechargers and 4 magstabs, you did say bad fits right?
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#16 - 2013-05-02 17:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
If the guy is missioning for a long of time, you have to assume that he has very high missile and shield tanking skills. He would probably try to immobilize and outlast you through continuous pressure at all ranges. Here is a loadout that you might encounter if the guy gets some advice from PvP players (I post T2 fittings, he might go bling on you though) :

[Scorpion Navy Issue, DxLC]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Internal Force Field Array I

Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
X-Large Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
100MN Afterburner II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5


Some things you might have to consider.

1. He will probably prefer Cruise missiles, due to the better signature bonus. If he is smart, he will be loaded with all damage type precision ammo at least.
2. He will use his warriors to counteract any drones you might have, and then go for hammers or valkyries to augment his DPS.
3. He will be able to shoot you anywhere in the battlefield for about 200DPS (depending on your speed), drones not counted. He might go for a TP instead of a second web. You have to at least be able to tank that while neuted.
4. He will try to catch you for 2 reasons. To make his highs hit for optimal damage, and to make use of his better brawling capabilities (heavy neut, better tanking, more EHP). Be very careful of webs, they do a far better job than a TP will for him.
5. If you are caught in scram range you are immobilized from the webs, MWD or not. He will be able to change ammo and pound you to oblivion.
6. If you stay outside of scram, he can still neut you. A cap booster is obligatory.

Hope that gives you sth to work against. Happy fighting, cheers...C:
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#17 - 2013-05-02 18:15:05 UTC
Get an Active tanked AB sacrilige..

Enjoy his excruciatingly slow death as he fails to apply dps on you.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#18 - 2013-05-02 18:33:01 UTC
Oh and remember some common tips.

1. Dont go passive shields or MWD, you want to keep your sig down as much as possible.
2. You will most likely have to counter a heavy neut. Fit a booster to keep your active tank going.
3. Stay as mobile as possible. The more speed you have, the less damage he will do.

If you keep to that, killing a SNI will be trivial business.
LtauSTinpoWErs
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-05-02 18:50:26 UTC
Oracle:

8x Mega Pulse Laser II

100mn Afterburner II
Warp Disruptor II
Small Capacitor Booster II (Navy 400s)

2x Heat Sink II
Damage Control II
Energized Adapative Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Energy Collision Accelerator I


Just orbit the SNI around 18km (because you will drift off closer to 24km). Press F1 and watch your lasers melt through his shields. Your speed and small signature will make his missiles do minimal damage, assuming they even hit you if he is using torpedoes.

If you are worried about his drones, could drop one gun for a smartbomb, and change the afterburner to meta.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-05-02 21:30:51 UTC
above fit will last under 4minutes with everything running, not sure if that's enough time to take out the SNI if it's properly tanked.

Also not sure if battleclinic missle damage formula is working but it says a SNI with 3 BCUs will do about 1.1k damage per volley on the oracle with precision nova and that MAAR is nowhere near enough to cover that.
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