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NPC Fleets in Low-Sec

Author
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#1 - 2013-05-02 07:05:57 UTC
Something to turn Low-Sec into Low-Sec, and not just Null-Sec with some module limitations and some gate guns, and also to liven the place up. Awfully dreary in Low-Sec. These fleets become less common in certain systems depending on certain stimuli.

Mining Fleet
A mining fleet. Nothing special, just a group of miners and a protective escort. If you do criminal things near them, the security escort will engage you. Capsuleer miners can tag along for the security benefits. These fleets only appear in systems that have decent amounts of ore, and generally become less common as system security drops. These fleets also appear in the Outer Ring, regardless of a system's security status. If they come under attack, they will send a distress signal in local that capsuleers can either choose to ignore or choose to help. Helping them against raiders will provide a standings increase and possibly other benefits. Mining fleets occur less often in systems where mining fleets often come under attack. Barges in the fleet will often carry a few drones, though not enough to defend themselves very well. NPC miners will attempt to warp away from conflict if possible, and you must tackle them or they will get away.

Transport Convoys
Convoys carrying materials from Point A to Point B. They always have armed escorts. If they come under attack, they will send a distress signal in local that capsuleers can either choose to ignore or choose to help. Helping them against raiders will provide a standings increase and possibly other benefits.

Bounty Hunter Fleet
A group of bounty hunters. They hunt down players with a high bounty. They mostly spawn in systems that are frequently visited by those with large bounties, and as such could be considered to be actively hunting their targets. They sometimes refrain from attacking if your security status is high enough, but only in systems with a higher security status. In 0.4, for example, they might not attack you if your security status is positive, whereas in 0.1 they will actively attack anyone with a decent bounty. If they succeed in destroying your vessel, part of the bounty goes to them, though slightly less than what a player would get. Many of them have tackling capabilities.

DED Strike Team
DED strike teams are small CONCORD squadrons that actively hunt down those with poor security status. Along with your security status, two other variables are taken into account. The security status of the system you are in, and how often you occupy that particular area. "Area" being either a system, constellation or region. The smaller the area, the more likely they are to find you. If you stay on the run and take to very low security space, DED strike teams will likely never catch up to you. If you squander around a single 0.4 system, however, they are very likely to reach you. They are dangerous, but manageable, similar to factional police in high-sec. If you escape them successfully, they will use smaller, faster ships. If you defend against them successfully but stay in one place, they use slower, more powerful ships. All of them have tackling capabilities. After being destroyed by a DED strike team, no more DED strike teams will target you until you commit another criminal act (mercy for pirates, not that they need it), though your security status remains the same.

Police Patrols
Factional police patrols in low-sec. They certainly aren't as strong as those in high-sec, but they shouldn't be ignored, either. They patrol their own faction's low-sec space, and will attack those recently involved in criminal acts, those with very low security status, and those with very low standings towards that particular faction. If a DED Strike Team, Mining Fleet or another Police Patrol sends out a distress call, they will answer. They are far more likely to patrol systems that directly border high-sec, regardless of security status, but higher system security translates into a larger fleet. They are also more likely to patrol systems that often have criminal acts occurring in them. If a capsuleer commits a criminal act against another capsuleer in low-sec, police patrols may intervene (and warp to the conflict if necessary) depending on the standings and security status of those involved. Some of them have tackling capabilities. A message is transmitted in local when they enter or leave the system, and you can detect them on your on-board scanner. If you want an easy kill, try to strike when police patrols are either gone or pathetic enough to deal with easily, or you can get a high standing with that faction's navy (military corruption... it's such a beautiful thing).

What this does is make low-sec midway between high-sec and null-sec, not a null-sec with a few restrictions and some gate guns. You can still plunder and pillage and avoid the law, but you have to be more careful when going about that. It also provides some opportunity for players who otherwise would be too discouraged to go. So long as you keep your wits about you, you can stay (relatively) safe while not being forced to cloak or hide in station or be good at PVP. If you wander around like it is high-sec? Well, then, eventually you are going to slip up and the pirates will have their way with you in a dark, unguarded metaphorical alley. And if you wander around like it is null-sec? Well, eventually you will be caught in a bad situation, and you will be dragged to your judgement.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#2 - 2013-05-02 07:23:59 UTC
What this game needs is more player initiative and interaction not NPCs.

Invalid signature format

Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#3 - 2013-05-02 08:02:15 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
What this game needs is more player initiative and interaction not NPCs.

No, it needs both. NPCs are very important.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#4 - 2013-05-02 08:12:43 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Something to turn Low-Sec into Low-Sec, and not just Null-Sec with some module limitations and some gate guns, and also to liven the place up. Awfully dreary in Low-Sec. These fleets become less common in certain systems depending on certain stimuli.

Mining Fleet
A mining fleet. Nothing special, just a group of miners and a protective escort. If you do criminal things near them, the security escort will engage you. Capsuleer miners can tag along for the security benefits. These fleets only appear in systems that have decent amounts of ore, and generally become less common as system security drops. These fleets also appear in the Outer Ring, regardless of a system's security status. If they come under attack, they will send a distress signal in local that capsuleers can either choose to ignore or choose to help. Helping them against raiders will provide a standings increase and possibly other benefits. Mining fleets occur less often in systems where mining fleets often come under attack. Barges in the fleet will often carry a few drones, though not enough to defend themselves very well. NPC miners will attempt to warp away from conflict if possible, and you must tackle them or they will get away.

Transport Convoys
Convoys carrying materials from Point A to Point B. They always have armed escorts. If they come under attack, they will send a distress signal in local that capsuleers can either choose to ignore or choose to help. Helping them against raiders will provide a standings increase and possibly other benefits.

Bounty Hunter Fleet
A group of bounty hunters. They hunt down players with a high bounty. They mostly spawn in systems that are frequently visited by those with large bounties, and as such could be considered to be actively hunting their targets. They sometimes refrain from attacking if your security status is high enough, but only in systems with a higher security status. In 0.4, for example, they might not attack you if your security status is positive, whereas in 0.1 they will actively attack anyone with a decent bounty. If they succeed in destroying your vessel, part of the bounty goes to them, though slightly less than what a player would get. Many of them have tackling capabilities.

DED Strike Team
DED strike teams are small CONCORD squadrons that actively hunt down those with poor security status. Along with your security status, two other variables are taken into account. The security status of the system you are in, and how often you occupy that particular area. "Area" being either a system, constellation or region. The smaller the area, the more likely they are to find you. If you stay on the run and take to very low security space, DED strike teams will likely never catch up to you. If you squander around a single 0.4 system, however, they are very likely to reach you. They are dangerous, but manageable, similar to factional police in high-sec. If you escape them successfully, they will use smaller, faster ships. If you defend against them successfully but stay in one place, they use slower, more powerful ships. All of them have tackling capabilities. After being destroyed by a DED strike team, no more DED strike teams will target you until you commit another criminal act (mercy for pirates, not that they need it), though your security status remains the same.

Police Patrols
Factional police patrols in low-sec. They certainly aren't as strong as those in high-sec, but they shouldn't be ignored, either. They patrol their own faction's low-sec space, and will attack those recently involved in criminal acts, those with very low security status, and those with very low standings towards that particular faction. If a DED Strike Team, Mining Fleet or another Police Patrol sends out a distress call, they will answer. They are far more likely to patrol systems that directly border high-sec, regardless of security status, but higher system security translates into a larger fleet. They are also more likely to patrol systems that often have criminal acts occurring in them. If a capsuleer commits a criminal act against another capsuleer in low-sec, police patrols may intervene (and warp to the conflict if necessary) depending on the standings and security status of those involved. Some of them have tackling capabilities. A message is transmitted in local when they enter or leave the system, and you can detect them on your on-board scanner. If you want an easy kill, try to strike when police patrols are either gone or pathetic enough to deal with easily, or you can get a high standing with that faction's navy (military corruption... it's such a beautiful thing).

What this does is make low-sec midway between high-sec and null-sec, not a null-sec with a few restrictions and some gate guns. You can still plunder and pillage and avoid the law, but you have to be more careful when going about that. It also provides some opportunity for players who otherwise would be too discouraged to go. So long as you keep your wits about you, you can stay (relatively) safe while not being forced to cloak or hide in station or be good at PVP. If you wander around like it is high-sec? Well, then, eventually you are going to slip up and the pirates will have their way with you in a dark, unguarded metaphorical alley. And if you wander around like it is null-sec? Well, eventually you will be caught in a bad situation, and you will be dragged to your judgement.



Got an awesome addition: Also open up highsec for everyone, so no matter your sec-status or faction standings, no one may shoot you. Cause apparently undocking in lowsec as a flashy will now attract CONCORD Roll
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#5 - 2013-05-02 08:14:05 UTC
This would be definite immersion update since lowsec does not feel like empire space even they are that. Also risk of being pirate should be increased due to this problem that everyone want to shoot you in low.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2013-05-02 10:23:24 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
What this game needs is more player initiative and interaction not NPCs.

No, it needs both. NPCs are very important.



No, they really aren't.

We already have hauler spawns to cover your first and second points, and as for the rest, why would CONCORD in lowsec be a good thing?
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#7 - 2013-05-02 12:25:12 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
What this game needs is more player initiative and interaction not NPCs.

No, it needs both. NPCs are very important.



No, they really aren't.

We already have hauler spawns to cover your first and second points, and as for the rest, why would CONCORD in lowsec be a good thing?


Danika not very constructive post. If you read at all Felsusguys post the suggestion includes way more than CONCORD presence. Most of low sec if not all is empire space. Empire space should mean authority. If low sec shouldn't be this then please change the name of low sec to pirate sec and remove empire presence.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#8 - 2013-05-02 12:48:00 UTC
Another confused themeparker post....

EvE Online is an sandbox mmo-rpg game, not a kindergarten themepark game. In EvE, players are the content. It makes no sense to spend CCP precious time making worthless themepark stuff, things like NPC shouldn't exist in EvE and hopefully will be removed from the game in a near future. Players are the "NPC's".

The Tears Must Flow

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-05-02 13:36:20 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
What this game needs is more player initiative and interaction not NPCs.

No, it needs both. NPCs are very important.



No, they really aren't.

We already have hauler spawns to cover your first and second points, and as for the rest, why would CONCORD in lowsec be a good thing?


Danika not very constructive post. If you read at all Felsusguys post the suggestion includes way more than CONCORD presence. Most of low sec if not all is empire space. Empire space should mean authority. If low sec shouldn't be this then please change the name of low sec to pirate sec and remove empire presence.



Look, just because you want to be able to cruise through lowsec without having to worry about gatecamps doesn't mean everyone else does, nor that your vision is the way that particular area of space should be.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#10 - 2013-05-02 13:48:17 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:

Look, just because you want to be able to cruise through lowsec without having to worry about gatecamps doesn't mean everyone else does, nor that your vision is the way that particular area of space should be.


Again fail of being able to make constructive comment.

I quote:
FelsusGuy wrote:

What this does is make low-sec midway between high-sec and null-sec, not a null-sec with a few restrictions and some gate guns. You can still plunder and pillage and avoid the law, but you have to be more careful when going about that. It also provides some opportunity for players who otherwise would be too discouraged to go. So long as you keep your wits about you, you can stay (relatively) safe while not being forced to cloak or hide in station or be good at PVP. If you wander around like it is high-sec? Well, then, eventually you are going to slip up and the pirates will have their way with you in a dark, unguarded metaphorical alley. And if you wander around like it is null-sec? Well, eventually you will be caught in a bad situation, and you will be dragged to your judgement.


Felsusguy did not want highsec concord that blows up everyone. Simply more risk of being outlaw. If you had any roleplay desire other than blowing other people up you would see this.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2013-05-02 13:49:35 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

Look, just because you want to be able to cruise through lowsec without having to worry about gatecamps doesn't mean everyone else does, nor that your vision is the way that particular area of space should be.


Again fail of being able to make constructive comment.

I quote:
FelsusGuy wrote:

What this does is make low-sec midway between high-sec and null-sec, not a null-sec with a few restrictions and some gate guns. You can still plunder and pillage and avoid the law, but you have to be more careful when going about that. It also provides some opportunity for players who otherwise would be too discouraged to go. So long as you keep your wits about you, you can stay (relatively) safe while not being forced to cloak or hide in station or be good at PVP. If you wander around like it is high-sec? Well, then, eventually you are going to slip up and the pirates will have their way with you in a dark, unguarded metaphorical alley. And if you wander around like it is null-sec? Well, eventually you will be caught in a bad situation, and you will be dragged to your judgement.


Felsusguy did not want highsec concord that blows up everyone. Simply more risk of being outlaw. If you had any roleplay desire other than blowing other people up you would see this.



So why did he propose ideas that exist for no other reason than to counter gatecamps?
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#12 - 2013-05-02 13:50:44 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Another confused themeparker post....

EvE Online is an sandbox mmo-rpg game, not a kindergarten themepark game. In EvE, players are the content. It makes no sense to spend CCP precious time making worthless themepark stuff, things like NPC shouldn't exist in EvE and hopefully will be removed from the game in a near future. Players are the "NPC's".


I am sure then that you also oppose the change on the warpgates? CCP spend their precious time for improving the experience in eve. Making it more kind of themepark.

All I see that there are pirates who are so scared that they are blown up that you are already loosing into your pants.

Bring more constructive comments quit whining.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#13 - 2013-05-02 13:57:38 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:

So why did he propose ideas that exist for no other reason than to counter gatecamps?


Some of his changes do affect going through gates. Instead of trolling and fighting back you could also see that this would also give new aspect to pirates. Ganking npc ships for money.

There has been yet no constructive post from you. Simply single line posts and you do not consider anything else but your precious gate gang. Is that all that the game has offer for you? If its so then I am very sad.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2013-05-02 14:01:35 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

So why did he propose ideas that exist for no other reason than to counter gatecamps?


Some of his changes do affect going through gates. Instead of trolling and fighting back you could also see that this would also give new aspect to pirates. Ganking npc ships for money.

There has been yet no constructive post from you. Simply single line posts and you do not consider anything else but your precious gate gang. Is that all that the game has offer for you? If its so then I am very sad.



Has it occurred to you that ratting is not what gatecamping PVP oriented players want to do? Killing rats is not something I do for fun, it's something I do while I have a movie or something up on my other screen. How is shooting these new red crosses any different from shooting the ones that already exist? Even the minerals thing is nothing new, hauler spawns give those already. You used to be able to get stuff out of NPC convoys in highsec too, but that didn't mean people spent thier time doing so.

There hasn't been anything constructive from you either, just constant and repeated cries of 'nerf PVP'.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-05-02 14:01:43 UTC
Seems to me the guy wants the following:

1. No gate camps. Reading his DED strike team and police patrol sections, gate camps would not last for very long. Especially in 0.4 systems.
2. Belts to be safer on average.
3. Undocking to be safer.

Basically for low sec to be safer than it is. Unless you are caught at a customs office, a moon, or scanned down at a safe, low sec will have enhanced security compared to what it has now.

I've spend a fair amount of time in low sec, not doing pirate stuff, but doing isk making stuff. Not really a problem avoiding the player pirates IMO. Quite a bit of work for not much gain other than some people want to mine jaspet or some other crap ore (hint find a null alliance that focuses on carebearing or something along those lines so you can mine the really good high ends).

Given that CCP has finite resources and there are other parts of the game that are broken, I find this idea rather meh.

I also agree with Vaju Enki. Eve is a sandbox, that is its big selling point. Not that it has awesome NPCs.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#16 - 2013-05-02 14:09:34 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Seems to me the guy wants the following:

1. No gate camps. Reading his DED strike team and police patrol sections, gate camps would not last for very long. Especially in 0.4 systems.
2. Belts to be safer on average.
3. Undocking to be safer.

Basically for low sec to be safer than it is. Unless you are caught at a customs office, a moon, or scanned down at a safe, low sec will have enhanced security compared to what it has now.

I've spend a fair amount of time in low sec, not doing pirate stuff, but doing isk making stuff. Not really a problem avoiding the player pirates IMO. Quite a bit of work for not much gain other than some people want to mine jaspet or some other crap ore (hint find a null alliance that focuses on carebearing or something along those lines so you can mine the really good high ends).

Given that CCP has finite resources and there are other parts of the game that are broken, I find this idea rather meh.

I also agree with Vaju Enki. Eve is a sandbox, that is its big selling point. Not that it has awesome NPCs.


Right now gate camping is busting up your gang on gate and sit until some unsuspecting guy comes through. You can do sunday picnic basically. You could still gate camp by playing it wise. And you would have to be mobile due to the police. That would actually make your sandbox game much livelier and make it more interesting. This makes it too easy to multibox gate camps.

Right now the part of low sec space I go into I can exactly tell where the gate camps are. Several systems are gate campped 24/7 by multiple corps. There is nothing fun in that.

If you are against Felsusguys suggestion then you can't either be against afk mining because gate camps are as easy right now.


Yet thank you for first seriously written post. *bows*
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2013-05-02 14:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Theia Matova wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

So why did he propose ideas that exist for no other reason than to counter gatecamps?


Some of his changes do affect going through gates. Instead of trolling and fighting back you could also see that this would also give new aspect to pirates. Ganking npc ships for money.


Ganking NPC ships has got to be one of the most boring activities in this game. I know some people like missions and stuff, but that isn't the main selling point of Eve. It is the sanbox nature of the game. That the players drive the content. I don't really care about rats, or convoys or any of that stuff. I like to find out who is doing what in Eve. Which alliances, coalitions, groups are doing what. How is that war going, who just suffered a big corp theft. I check Verite's map everyday. I run through various websites for tidbits here and there.

This is what separates Eve from just about every other game out there.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#18 - 2013-05-02 14:23:34 UTC
Lowsec is where empires stopped to care about space outside of their property which happen to be gates and stations. You wanna feel more secure you have an opportunity to fight for it. Just as gate campers have opportunity to camp gates and stations. "Only" difference between you and them is they don't expect NPCs to play the game for them.

Invalid signature format

Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#19 - 2013-05-02 14:29:20 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Theia Matova wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

So why did he propose ideas that exist for no other reason than to counter gatecamps?


Some of his changes do affect going through gates. Instead of trolling and fighting back you could also see that this would also give new aspect to pirates. Ganking npc ships for money.


Ganking NPC ships has got to be one of the most boring activities in this game. I know some people like missions and stuff, but that isn't the main selling point of Eve. It is the sanbox nature of the game. That the players drive the content. I don't really care about rats, or convoys or any of that stuff. I like to find out who is doing what in Eve. Which alliances, coalitions, groups are doing what. How is that war going, who just suffered a big corp theft. I check Verite's map everyday. I run through various websites for tidbits here and there.

This is what separates Eve from just about every other game out there.


I do not want EVE to become only NPC ganking either. What Felsusguy suggested was good balanced package. Slight security increase to low sec. Which would make pirates need to change systems and not stay at one place for too long. (I guess you could also kill these npcs if you desired..). But basically these NPCs would simply add to the immersion that the space would also be inhabitted by people. You could simply ignore them if you like. But they would be there to give more in depth feeling of the game. Even sandbox games have sources for resources. Either they are ore veins, asteroids, monster loot bags whatever. Also NPCs for creating immersion.

What I like mostly about Felsusguys post is that he does not want to destroy piracy. Yet making it little bit more risky and you would have to be more cunning to do so. Piracy picnic on the gates is just silly.

Personally I would like bubbles and bombs to be introduced in low sec too and make gate camping more difficult. So you would actually need skill with bubbles to be a pirate. But anyway Felsusguys idea is really nice. It would give immersion, possible resource source for pirates, make camping one system more difficult but not impossible. Risk should shift from travel activities where you actually gain something. Going through gate does not give anyone anything else except good mood. Therefore entering a gate is not balanced risk / reward because you do not get anything taking the risk.

What comes to station games as long as you cannot watch out of the station window or see scan of ships around the station they should also make it little bit more guarded. IMHO..
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2013-05-02 14:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Theia Matova wrote:


I do not want EVE to become only NPC ganking either. What Felsusguy suggested was good balanced package. Slight security increase to low sec.


Not really. There was nothing there to enhance low sec for the people who have spent the most time there. It is all for those who want to gank NPCs or traverse low sec with less chance of a gank.

Also, since CCP has been moving in precisely the opposite direction for low sec (e.g. the change to gate guns), I think this is basically a waste of time.

Quote:
Personally I would like bubbles and bombs to be introduced in low sec too and make gate camping more difficult. So you would actually need skill with bubbles to be a pirate.


You are advocating turning low sec into NPC null. Why? Pirates that want to develop those skills can go to Pure Blind (the sisters of Eve systems), Fountain (Serpentis systems), Stain, NPC Delve, Curse, Venal, Syndicate, or Outer Ring. Seems to me there is plenty of space like you are describing and without the hassle of NPC nurse maids either.

And here is the thing, you can also get a lowered security status even being a "good guy". If I and a bunch of friends ran around ganking those who camp gates and go after others trying to take advantage of various aspects of low sec, we'll get the lowered sec status just as if we were ganking shuttles in ultra fast locking ships. This would put us at a disadvantage relative to the DED Strike teams, the faction police patrols and possibly even bounty hunters.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

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